Turbo driveshafts.
 

Hi everyone.

When fitting my engine, I noticed the small driveshaft would no way fit the gearbox due to the bending needed. This was with the engine as far right as possible. So to compensate, the engine has been tilted to bring the gearbox more in line with the hub centre line. This driveshaft is still bend a far bit.

Has anyone else had to tilt the engine for this small driveshaft?

I'm using the 220 turbo long driveshaft (outer boot died I discover today:icon_cry: ) so will need to get this sorted or get a diesel driveshaft. But it's the short one that's worrying me.

I'm going thru T16 turbo driveshaft hell too at the moment.

My set-up at the moment is SHORT 420 GSi turbo and LONG 420 turbo diesel.

I now reckon the better way to go is completely the opposite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reason for this is i want to rotate the engine a LOT more to try and straighten the driveshafts.

"We" really need to sort this...i'll try and get various driveshafts and measure overall lengths.

John

John,

just tried looking on the Rover EPC but though it does indeed list all the different drive shafts but unfortunately not the dimensions so not much help I suppose. I can post a copy to you if you do not already have the EPC, but as I say only limited help.

Mike

hi all

I to fitted the diesel long drive shaft and have the short d/shaft off the 220 gti coupe doner the play seems about right but quite an acute angle. but it is hard to tell till its been on the road.

The motor factors i used to purchase the long drive shaft had the various rover drive shafts listed with the compressed length of the shaft so you could pick the length you wanted from the various models in their book

regards
tony g

Yep it's the short one that's worring me. The acute angle. I think mine is the same as yours Tony as mines is from a 220 turbo. Not sure if there's a difference with the 420 one.

It's a if the engine needs moving back a bit.:peep: which would cause a whole lot more problems for example exhaust and maybe gear selector rods.

I watched Mark Evans or on of the other programs on sky. But he was in a similar position with regards to engine position and drive shafts. So he used some device to connect the flywheel of the engine via a chain to the driveshafts. And hey it worked. Wonder if there is such a contraption that is available or could be made. Will do some investigation.

I think this is the one I'm refering to. I know it's bike engine sprocket (included in the parts list) and driveshafts. Now only if there was some way to connect the pg1 using a chain system. Sprocker on a inner cv joint. Maybe taking rubbish as I'm no engineer!
Can't remember if it was a mid engined bike engine install.

I found this.

http://www.renold.com/Renold/web/sit...=531&MenuID=49

Could this be used to connect up to the pg1?

tony g

can you recall which motor factors had those compressed lengths?

john

Not sure whether they have the compressed lengths, but it's Woods of Ilford (Tel: 020 8478 6733 ). The young girl there know's all about Trev's long driveshaft.

Going by this thread,

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ghlight=diesel

Ther compressed length should be 960mm for the long one. Not sure if they have the length's for the short one.

hi john

Im afraid it was a local company not part of a big chain, but it was a suppliers book he looked it up in.

I am off to le mann 24 hr race tommorow but if you still need info i could pop in and get a few details for you when i get back after tuesday

regards

tony g

tony,

have a good time in le mann...luck *&^!
speak to you on tuesday.

john

Hi can someone post a picture of the short driveshaft viewed from above. Also with dimensions if possible for length and how much its out.

Measure from center of spline where it enters the hub to the centre of the spline where it enters the gearbox. Trying to measure the distance that the driveshaft angle it has to bend to reach the grearbox. If the makes sense!

Can't do it on mine at present as my engine is tilted.

Just thought I would mention. I popped along to rover today to get some bits. There was an MGF in there have it's head replaced. So being a bit noisy, noticed the engine is also at a tilt.

The T16 is at COMPLETELY the wrong angle on the standard Marlin mounts IMO.
We were a bit worried about oil surge issues... It really is that bad...
Needs the base of the engine moving back about 3" from standard to get the base of the sump slightly tilted towards front, so front of sump is lower than rear.

Hi Grant.

I've been worried about this for a while. Worried that at motorway speeds, the driveshaft popping out and not wanting to guess what happens.

I have tilted my engine quite a bit to compensate the short drive shaft. Long one looks ok. Still not right but ok.

At a guess, the whole assembly should be moved back so the gearbox mount is wear the suspension strut is. Does that sound right?

But would this also affect the way the car handles safely?

Hi John.
I don't think there is any chance of the shaft just popping out to be honest.
The ideal engine position would be the same (relatively) as a standard Rover 220 etc.
Key thing IMO is to get the sump at the right angle so as to prevent oil surge.
These cars with nearly 300hp don't have pull some impressive G forces on acceleration I can tell you!!

:biggrin1:

Not experience 200 HP yet let alone 300HP.

What do you think about the position of the mounts at the suspension strut? I think it would mean the engine would not need to be tilted (oil problem), the drive shafts would be dead straight. The problem is the work involved remounting the engine. Well for me anyway.;)

The other idea I had was leave engine where it is but keep engine level. And have chain drive to drive shafts like some other cars I've see. But don't know if this has been done before or even possible on the PG1.

Hi John,

Grant and I are to install a new uprated engine into mine.
I have been passed new engine mounts by Mark of Marlin. Give them a call.
The engine will be tilted far more than previous to straighten the driveshafts and improve oil pick position (surge issues).

You need the SHORT diesel driveshaft and the LONG turbo driveshaft.

This lot will be installed the weekend.

I'll report results and pics once done mate.

HTH.

John

Would be good to see pictures once you've done it John.

Mine is tilted quite a bit already using the orginal mounts. Will be good to see piccies.

I've already got the long turbo drive shaft. I replaced the short one with another brand new short one for a turbo as mine was knackered anyway.:(

Did not realise this was the diesel one.

Just to clarify the drive shaft length issues...

the shafts are (left to right)...

petrol, diesel, petrol, diesel...

so the best combo is short diesel and long (but shortist) turbo petrol.

hope that makes sense!

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5...eshaftsgb0.gif

Just for clarity for me. What driveshaft was originally popping on Trev's and Brians's? Long or short driveshaft?

john,
it was the petrol long shaft . it also happened to me in the early days...

Geeze my heads hurting!:twitch:

So by changing the short shaft to a diesel one, that should stop the shaft (long petrel one) from popping?

Yes, I think thats it John.
WHY hasn't Mark/Marlin said this???
I get quite wound up by several issues that have popped up. It's like the R+D is done by customers, not by Marlin!!!

I don't think Marlin had there Turbo for very long. So I don't think Marlin knew about the driveshaft issue. After Marlin dismantaled there's they never built another one and was not recommending it to there customers.

Just a quicky. The short diesel driveshaft (I'm getting my head round it now:dizzy:) Is it from a mk2 or mk3 200 diesel?

AFAIK short diesel shaft has same part number for both mk2 and mk3 models.
BUT get a new assembly from rover. ensure part number is R0123L (shaftec part number).

we'll finish the engine mounts and the rest of the install over the weekend.

i'll post results + pics then.

HTH,

John

Cheers John. Look forward to seeing how it all looks and lines up.

driveshafts
 

I originally had long turbo shaft and short turbo shaft . after a problem with the longer shaft popping out I changed to diesel long shaft. the car was ok until I drove it round a track which broke the cage on the outer cv of the short shaft. the current setup is back to original turbo long driveshaft having moved the engine as far right as it will go. it has not been tested on a track yet but so far so good.

brian

Sounds familiar - building a K20A2 engined car is taking me ages, as I'm doing a number of things myself (3 of the 4 engine mounts for starters). So far the only thing that has fitted in the engine bay is the offside engine mount, all the other engine bay components don't fit / work. Not a problem as such, as I'm enjoying the project, but it's certainly going to take me longer than I first envisaged.

Oh, just to keep things on topic, sorting driveshafts for the type-r version hasn't been a smooth process. Mine have just gone back to the manufacturer, as they are wrong on a number of counts.

Hi Brian.

So are you running with both short and long driveshaft from turbo?

Not sure if there's a difference but you used a 800 donor where as John/Trev used a 400 and I and some others used a 200. Might mean diffferent driveshaft lengths.

Probably not a bad thing...
I wonder how long before some K20 owners SC their cars and suddenly the K20 option is not recommended...

B*!?*!3$ Driveshafts
 

Hi everyone,

Thought I was sorted, had the car on the road for a month and everything was going so well.....................

Then One surprise follows another, on the 18th August I celebrated my second heart attack, thanks to the skills of Dr Julian Strange I survived.

A day later and my son thought it was safe to push the pedal to the metal bang another short driveshaft bites the dust, mind you at least this time it did not puncture nice ventilation holes in the gearbox.

So now I'm in the market for a new 'short' shaft.

Can I just add a thanks for the earlier notes regarding new mounts, I'll send an email to Terry.

I'm finding the 200 bhp real fun, but interested in what increases are available, possible head mods and piston changes?

Is yours still available Craig?

Regards to all builders

Trev

driveshafts
 

I am currently running 200 turbo long and short shaft. I have driven car quite hard without any problems!!!! The only niggle is a slight vibration under accelleration between 20-30 mph. I am sure this is down to the tight angle of the short shaft. I have added an additional stabiliser to gearbox and also a tension cable laterally from chassis to engine like i saw on Marks demo turbo.

Brian

Well it happened today. It's first go under it's own steam. Long driveshaft popped at the inner joint (orginial turbo drive shaft).

and just to add even more heartache i went out today and one of the driveshafts sounds as tho its knackered....so thats 150 miles and dead driveshaft.........not happy.

it's time to drop the car off at marlin.

Sorry to hear about the recent failures - I heard the Rover 200 Coupe race cars had shaft difficulties, but I thought the Marlin being that much lighter might be a bit softer on the shafts........ although the angle can't help.

Are all turbo builders experiencing failure at the gearbox end, or are there instances of the outer CV packing up as a result of the input angle?

The Dreaded Driveshaft
 

Hi Guys,

Yes it is odd how the shaft always pulls out at the 'box' end. Jon (Limpabit has just pulled his long driveshaft for the first time. He and I recently spent an hour or two discussing the options. I really do not mind lashing out on these items, since starting my build I guess I have spent around £500. But enough is enough and now I want one that is going to do the job permanently.

As far as it goes, a friend has added 20mm on to my short driveshaft, the join looks good but we'll have to see what happens when it tries to handle the power. The good news is if it works we will at last have a difinitive answer to the problem.

If this shaft does not pull out, I intend to ask one of the specialist manufacturers to make one of this size.

Regards

Trev

Hi everyone.

I've been scratching heads with Trev and John (Marlin Turbo).

There's 1 difference between mine and Trev's. I have tilted my engine (found out the MGf also has it's engine tilted). It might mean different configurations for dfferenyt builders. John (Marlin turbo) said Turbo long shaft and diesel short shaft. But as mine has pulled, it looks like I will need the diesel lomg shaft (as this is a bit longer) for my configuration. Can't tell about the short one as Trev said (not sure which one John's got problems with) as this happens when turning left only. But as it stands, the longer of the two shorter ones, Trev's got problems with.

So as Trev's getting his extended, does the 600 or 800 have longer short driveshafts than the 200/400 models?

you've been shafted
 

If you read all the posts on driveshafts it changes direction constantly on the best setup.
I understood that the turbo model used 220 driveshafts, turbo or normally aspirated are the same I think.
I had a problem in the early stages of the long shaft popping out of the inner joint, the cure was thought to be to fit a longer shaft (diesel). This cured the popping out but the real problem was I needed to move the engine further to the right. I only found this problem out after breaking the left hand cv outer cage during hard cornering. The problem is if you fit the longer diesel shaft on the right it tightens the angle of the left hand shaft which is already at it's limit. If it requires modifying engine mounts to move engine across further then do it. I have about 10mm clearance between timing cover and chassis rail and I might even try and reduce this even further.
I also have a stabiliser rod from gearbox to chassis to prevent engine rotating too much and straining the shafts even more.
I still have a problem in that an annoying vibration at 25-35mph under load, I am sure this is due to the angle of the short driveshaft but I'm not certain. I think getting the engine location right for the driveshafts is paramount and would advise all builders to make sure that they use the maximum space available to have the engine as far to the right as possible.


Good Luck
Brian

Hi Brian.

Exactly as you describe is I think what has happen to Trev. Has diesel long shaft and broke the shorter petrol shaft during cornering.

My shaft has popped using turbo long shaft.

Just taken some measurements. I have 27mm between timing cover and chassis rail. But to move it to 10mm will not happen. I have only 11mm between chassis and alternator pulley wheel. Maybe the alternator is the difference between the 200 and 800? How much clearance have you got at the alternator Brian?

alternator
 

I have made my own alternator mounting bracket fitted in a different position due to not fitting standard water pump. It fortunately clears chassis rails comfortably.
I have used 214 alternator for cheapness and with standard v belt.
I know Marlin used original configeration on the turbo demonstrater so you would assume it should work!!.

good luck mate
hope to see you at Donny