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-   -   DNA roomer on DNAOC forum (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6430)

Jaguartvr 20th July 2017 10:53

DNA roomer on DNAOC forum
 
http://www.dnaoc.co.uk/index.php/top...cseen.html#new

lancelot link 21st July 2017 06:20

Interesting read ..all speculation at the moment ..The 550 idea doesn't sound right to me ...a good 550 replica , like a Beck etc is a lot of work compared to the 2fifty and will not sell for the money they have been going for / asking for their recent stuff ....
The bespoke comments kind of contradict the 550 as well ...

I really hope its not the other suggestion , but I know Ferrari do get very upset when manufacturers start to use their badges ...... I wonder if the car that was pulled from the auction has any connection to recent events ?

redratbike 21st July 2017 22:04

What section is it in as the link didn't work for me?

smash 26th July 2017 09:51

Don't think you'll see any more 2fifty's sadly. And I'd guess once you're on the F radar then any attempt at a replica would be jumped on - irrespective of how you got there in the first place be it trade dress or otherwise.

Certain build agents should really stop the blatant (and ridiculous google Street view size wing emblem!) badging pretty sharpish - it's a potential house of cards.

Not sure where this leaves Automirage?

Mister Towed 26th July 2017 11:56

Link doesn't work for me either and I failed miserably to create an account when I tried.

I'm guessing that Ferrari has taken legal action to stop the use of their trademark on these cars, but any chance of a better explanation of the details of what's actually happened please?

Jaguartvr 26th July 2017 12:21

www.dnaoc.co.uk

and just look at the recent posts on the right hand side.
Creating an account is tricky and not user friendly.

Mister Towed 26th July 2017 13:46

Okay, thanks for the working link to the forum.

Still can't find what's being discussed above though. It's probably just me failing to spot it, but what's the thread title?

lancelot link 26th July 2017 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by smash (Post 89703)
Don't think you'll see any more 2fifty's sadly. And I'd guess once you're on the F radar then any attempt at a replica would be jumped on - irrespective of how you got there in the first place be it trade dress or otherwise.

I hope thats not the case ...I heard that they might be supplying turnkeys to be sold through a single outlet ....maximizing retail opportunity..but nothing to back that up

Quote:

Certain build agents should really stop the blatant (and ridiculous google Street view size wing emblem!) badging pretty sharpish - it's a potential house of cards.
Agreed ..if for no other reason , it looks awful ....

Quote:

Not sure where this leaves Automirage?
Hopefully carrying on as he is .... the repercussions and ripples could affect a lot of people if it was to spread ..so hopefully , firstly , the DNA Badge issue isn't true ...they have a legitimate and self generated reason to change direction , and secondly , It stops at their door if it is true ....

Really , only DNA can answer this one or a representative there of ....it doesn't affect me directly , but as a manufacturer/ builder , I have an interest in any changes or restrictions that come along ....

Jaguartvr 26th July 2017 18:27

Certain build agents should really stop the blatant (and ridiculous google Street view size wing emblem!) badging pretty sharpish - it's a potential house of cards.


I was going to use this as a bonnet badge.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ferrari-Wa...p2047675.l2557


I think I can pull it off:peace:

smash 26th July 2017 20:48

Bad man!!

JG 26th July 2017 23:20

Could someone please summarize what is the 'roomer' being discussed as I can't see the thread either :yo:

Aus Simmo 27th July 2017 07:08

Seconded by me. Based on the above comments there appears to be something big happening. I'd love to know what is going on. If (as I infer from comments) Maranello have flexed their muscles there could be no more 250 replicas. I had anticipated this issue - surely the issue can be dodged by changing the name of the car to remove the Ferrari model reference and tweaking the shape slightly allowing the car to be an "evocation" rather than a replica.

lancelot link 27th July 2017 07:47

Someone started a thread on the DNA FORUM stating that they had contacted DNA about purchasing a 2fifty. They were told that DNA were no longer offering the 2fifty.
My first reaction to that was that the KIT was no longer available and the poster had over reacted to that and misunderstood assuming that the whole thing had gone .....as the thread expands and other people contribute , it apears that they have all received various different information when speaking to DNA - one was told a 550 project was now consuming their time , another that an investor was funding a bespoke build ...but a couple of posters said that DNA had been involved in a situation at a recent car show and the suggestion was that Ferrari had made their feelings known ...I have to be honest , I tend to think that probably is the case .....the cars were getting a high end price , some big publicity , Brian has said its the best one he's done , he should have gone retro years ago ...Auction houses throwing the word Ferrari around hoping to have big pay days etc etc... I suspect the Italians thought it was time ....

lancelot link 27th July 2017 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aus Simmo (Post 89737)
Seconded by me. Based on the above comments there appears to be something big happening. I'd love to know what is going on. If (as I infer from comments) Maranello have flexed their muscles there could be no more 250 replicas. I had anticipated this issue - surely the issue can be dodged by changing the name of the car to remove the Ferrari model reference and tweaking the shape slightly allowing the car to be an "evocation" rather than a replica.

I really , genuinely think that the buck will stop at DNA's door , if the above is correct ...The cars were scarily accurate in many ways , big badge useage etc. I do wonder what's different this time , as I cannot believe that DNA have not received communications before ...they are no stranger to obvious replication.

I think other manufacturers / build agents/ home builders etc. should take heed of the warning shot thats been fired and tone down the 'similarities' a little , maybe ?
I am no expert on this by any means and don't know where the line is drawn , the silhouette argument has been explained to me in the past , but thats tricky because an Aston silhouette or a Maserati silhouette etc often is spookily similar to the Ferrari etc.

I think the minute you badge up , its an issue ...I know Aston covet their grille shape as well ...but putting Ferrari badges on must be a step too far...

Imitation is usually the greatest form of flattery , but I think the concern may be that a whole heap of replica's will affect genuine prices and credibility ... Slightly different situation , but the saturated market place for fake Cobra's must have affected genuine Cobra ownership ...how many of us would assume replica before genuine , if a Cobra went past you on the road ...we all do it ...Even watches , clothing etc...we all assume its a Bolex before Rolex .....so maybe thats an issue , maybe its brand useage ...I don't know ...I'd love to hear both sides of this argument , as a builder who strays into ''inspiration'' territory and tries to avoid replication , I really would love to know where the line is drawn and why its there ....

Aus Simmo 27th July 2017 08:27

Great post Lancelot. I am conflicted on this issue. Could it be that direct replicas of a high quality such as DNA improve brand awareness and therefore demand for the real thing? I suspect there is too great a difference in price for this to be true. I suspect the feeling at Maranello is that replicas cheapen the brand.

I personally don't like the replica/copy trend. There are so many stunning cars from the 50s-70s that I think there is plenty of scope for a period car without treading on anyone's toes. I treated myself to an original Rolex (Seadweller) a few years back and everyone assumed it was fake. If I had a multi-million pound Ferrari I would be p1ssed off if people thought it was a Z3 "kitcar"!!!!!

Mister Towed 27th July 2017 08:28

...so there's nothing concrete about action from Maranello then, just vague rumours.

I seem to recall that Bentley had an issue with a certain rebody company copying one of their 'in production' models a few years back and I understand Mercedes had a Gullwing replica body destroyed in Germany, but the rules regarding ownership of historic designs and breach of copyright are very complicated indeed, especially across international borders.

I'd have thought that if Ferrari were threatening action against low-volume manufacturers of their historic model range they might have made it public themselves by now, which they don't appear to have done.

As for other manufacturers, the Chesil website states that Porsche UK send customers enquiring about buying a 356 Speedster to their doors, so they appear to have no issue with replication of their out of production range.

Until something official gets put in print I wouldn't worry too much about the rumours.

Right, time to start looking at alternative power sources for my 356 replica as I've heard a rumour that the Government wants to ban fossil fueled vehicles from the road and have us all drive around in flying cars powered by magic moon beams by 2040...

lancelot link 27th July 2017 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aus Simmo (Post 89741)

I personally don't like the replica/copy trend. There are so many stunning cars from the 50s-70s that I think there is plenty of scope for a period car without treading on anyone's toes.

I don't have an issue with replica's ..but have to agree with the second part of your statement !!!!

Jaguartvr 27th July 2017 08:41

Sorry if people can't find the thread.
I started with an upset prospective Z3 owner who had stripped a Z3 down intending to fit a 2fifty kit only to be told that no more were being produced.
The website disappeared around the same time, a lot of people thought that they were going to just build turnkey 2fifties but this seems to have stopped as well.
Another post suggested that they had been told that DNA were going in a different direction and producing 365 Porsche replicas.
As I said it's all rumour but is strongly suspected the F have stepped in and are a bit miffed .

I can see them being upset about the modern replica's as they were such good copies, you would have to look very closely to see they were replicas. On the other hand I can't see a company being too upset about a replica based on a car that came out of production over 50 years ago, so long as they aren't using a well known trademarked badge. I don't think anyone can blame them for fiercely protecting it.

Most peoples idea of a kit car has always been some dodgy grp body stuck to a rusty Beetle chassis. Things have obviously come a long way from that and many are superbly designed and finished.
In doing some investigation for a project, I have been told basically, go and buy a decent size model, have it scanned and then the result enlarged. It can then be CNC cut out of polystyrene to give you a mould. This means that it is going to be much easier to copy other peoples designs in the future, I have already seen a Chinese Range Rover Evoke copy that looks so close. Enforcing copyright in China is going to be another minefield.

You wait till WCA gets his 3D printer up and running, I can already see him planning his next car being made from very small sections!

lancelot link 27th July 2017 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 89743)

I'd have thought that if Ferrari were threatening action against low-volume manufacturers of their historic model range they might have made it public themselves by now, which they don't appear to have done.

I don't think they work like that ...they are more of a 'sniper' when it comes to this ...they fire a shot , take out one player , sit back and watch everyone else duck for cover or surrender ....

We had it in the 80's locally , with the 260Z based 250 GTO look a likes being built in Fordingbridge..... They destroyed their moulds from memory with a court order ...the ripples went out and a lot of people took notice ...

lancelot link 27th July 2017 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 89743)
...

Until something official gets put in print I wouldn't worry too much about the rumours.

...

Totally agree ...we are just speculating and discussing an unknown at the moment ... I have an obvious interest and can be a bit vocal sometimes ....it is an interesting debate though , love to hear other peoples views and opinions , positive or otherwise on all aspects of our industry.

Oh ...Towed , By the way there is a letter from my solicitor on its way for your over useage of the ...... punctuation - I registered excessive use of it in inappropriate ways several years ago .....


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