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Dino 206P
Hi guys,
I really like this site and the projects you are doing here, many fantastic builds and hundreds of ideas and different ways to build your dreamcar..! Now it's time to introduce myself and show my project: I live in Germany in Hamburg, and I have built two kitcars already, a Countach with spaceframe and Renault Alpine A310 suspension and engine and a Renault Alpine A110 speedster based on a shortened beetle chassis. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps14cc90df.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9ccf2270.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps07ad8f65.jpg I sold both cars 2 years ago, and played around with Porsche 996, which never made me happy, so I sold this car too. A polish guy here in Hamburg offers GT40 kits made in Poland for a competitive price, so I decided last year to drive to Poland to have a look. I saw a frame, and some bodyparts in quite a good quality, but I did not see a finished car or a complete body. Nevertheless I bought a "rolling chassis" with body to be delivered in october, and than the story began... Anyway, I don't wanna tell to much about what has all happened, I picked the things up in Poland in october, and brought the stuff home. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps18ebfdb4.jpg . |
The first idea was to build a GT40 roadster with open roof and a speedster style windscreen, but the more I looked at the car, the less I was happy with its proportions compared to the real thing.
The front was too short and hanging down, the rear was also hanging down and had strange lines, so one day I decided if I have to change so many things to make it look right, and can build something different and much nicer out of it... The curved front fenders reminded me to the Ferraris from the mid-sixties, the Dino and the P3/P4... A P4 kit already exists, so I decided to go for the much rarer Dino 206, and started comparing the proportions: http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps927d8127.jpg not so much of a difference, but the wheeelbase from the GT is different to the Dino, the Dino 206 is a very small car with 13" wheels, and I (over 6ft tall) will never fit in there... With the longer wheelbase from the GT it will be a 105% scaled up Dino, which makes it bigger and wider and I do fit in there... :peace: |
So I decided to hacksaw the GT and build my alltime favourite dreamcar out of it...a big challenge, but at the end I will have a rare car with unique background, as far as I know there are only 18 Dino 206 built and a handfull metalbody reproductions...
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The original design was done by pininfarina
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps23583935.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psa6a4ad33.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps20af1f25.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9331bf81.jpg ...but to get it race ready, Ferrari gave the job to Piero Drogo with his Carozzeria Sportscars in Modena, and he got it spot on!! http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps12033fa2.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps07542cfb.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psfd10fe25.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps200a9d44.jpg |
It was equipped with a 2000ccm V6 doing more than 220hp, and that was 1965!
The car was really competive with its size and a weight of about 1100lbs by 220hp, and has won several races and hillclimbs... http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps523390dd.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps125d7422.jpg the interior was simple and race-oriented, which makes it simple to copy http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps34c8df58.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps8b13a19f.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps549a1454.jpg . |
The hacksawing process, I do not comment it, just have a look at the pics and if you have any questions please ask...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psbd3465eb.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse6b3f5a7.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps1ddd100d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psa9e19dac.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc7e9c4fa.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pscf94a32d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps3edbbe9a.jpg |
I am doing photoshop overlays almost everyday, and it sometimes amazes me how close I am...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9b46a531.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse3abb05d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps1b159ae2.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps3ca97b75.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc2ebbf2f.jpg . |
first windscreen attempt...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psa70da233.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps98a94fc6.jpg . |
out in the sun... I lowered the windscreen quite a bit, makes it more aggressive..
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps41c0caf3.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7fdde8c9.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps16c53dc2.jpg . |
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some goodies I have found at a german classic car show two weeks ago...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps508654ed.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps6a8397e9.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psca4a0776.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psb86d69e3.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psef8a82b9.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7f45aef5.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps1fc0842e.jpg . |
applying some threedimensional shapes with formmetal, a metal stich-matte glued in with sikaflex..
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psadcdeb43.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psf0b90f19.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psbe4cc430.jpg |
the windscreen frame...a cylindrical shape for the windscreen...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psaa1d461d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psdfb6bfcc.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps0069c161.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psf89efe77.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps26963604.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps205bd67b.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps4d97aec3.jpg |
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another goodie arrived safely yesterday, thanks to John from JHclassics :-)
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps5d6eb3f3.jpg . |
Now engine and transmission choice...
I have a Ford V6 to VW/Porsche adapter plate lying around here, could go for a Ford Essex V6, or even a Cosworth V6, or to have an all italian solution I go for the Alfa V6 attached to a Alfa Boxer gearbox from the Alfa 33 or 145/146. The Alfa 33 gearbox does not fit the Alfa V6, I still do need an adapter, but I have the hope that at least two or three holes match, and I can use Alfa components for clutch and flexplate, and with an 190hp Alfa 3.0 V6 QV from the 75 or GTV6 it will be a classic and cheap solution compared to the Porsche transmission... http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps3c889e4f.gif the Alfa 33 gearbox (built up to 140hp): http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps0c2d7215.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps99708646.jpg the Alfa 164 gearbox compared to the Alfa 33: http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps72b3a81c.jpg |
Axel - This is a very interesting build, thanks for posting the details.
Your photoshop overlays are very impressive, But the fact you can then turn the computer images into reality is very clever indeed. :cool: Good luck, Paul. :) |
I am amazed! When i started Reading your post, i thougt "what The hell is he thinking, hacking up a gt40??!!". But i read on and now clearly see why! This is truly Amazing! Love it. You wont be seeing Another of these! If it was mine i would definatly go for the alfa Engine. Alfa 60 degree v6´s has an amaziningly aggresive sound! No other v6 can compare to it! Plus they give alot of Power too...
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I agree with you, Alfa should be the way to go!!
Thanks for your kind words, guys! |
I made a template for the rear end this weekend, and did the mandatory photoshop proof...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pscf2d8561.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps1d7bf21a.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps725c5b7e.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psaa54c352.jpg . |
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All I can say is that this is simply amazing.
If you take a mould of this I'm sure you could go into business and sell a few of these as a kit. This is probably the most exciting kit car replica that I have seen for a long time and as a long time Ferrari fan and F430 Spyder DNA owner, it simply is very special. I wish I had your skills and vision. Keep it up and keep this forum updated. Thanks for sharing it with us. |
Subscribed for deffo :)
Can't wait to see the progress and finished article, roll on the next show ;) |
Thanks guys,
I am actually planning to take the mould out of it before it will be painted. My dream is to build it out of 100% metal one day, I am already buying hammering and metalforming tools! Will keep you updated, promised! |
That's great news to hear. Please post lots of photos.
Are you keeping a list of all the parts that you are using to do this build? Might be very useful if you make a mould and want to sell some. Looking forward to your next post. |
Hi guys,
some updates, my planishing hammer arrived yesterday, and I did some testparts like a cover for the b-pillar inside, and the hoods for the bonnet. It is amazing, when you start hammeringyou think "ok, this will be in the bin in a minute...", but when you keep hammering and smoothing it really turns out! The hammer is a china-thing, I paid about 120$ for it, but for that price it is really cool! http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psd70f0aca.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psac44d9dd.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psa3bda004.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps58b8f97f.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps11776246.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psbb5f1d8f.jpg |
And I did the framework for the rear end, easy to weld it flat, but then it was really difficult to get the curvature in the topview...
Still mounted too high at the moment, but for the first try it turned out to be quite good! http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps5c3a35d1.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps0e2bcba6.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7dd52eb4.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psd2414ed9.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps08554eb8.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psee51c40d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps3e2a594f.jpg |
Love the metal shaping, great skill. :cool:
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Good luck, Paul. :) |
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Loving this thread, great vision and craftwork going on. Keep up the excellent work. :high5:
John |
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Some updates, finished the subframe for the rear end, and built the first spherical metal panels with the pneumatic hammer.
Hmm...building the body out of 100% metal and eliminating the fiberglass parts might take a longer time until it's finished, but could be worth it. I've bought an english wheel for metal shaping- should arrive tomorrow- and then I will see what I can do with the new toy. . http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps6b66d687.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps94bc4553.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psd24b4f68.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psf7b1a3cf.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps65ad6a00.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps4e1a9eb2.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7b9bde28.jpg |
Morning Axel, do you already know how to use the metal shaping equipment?
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Hi Gary
well, I saw some vids at youtube, and got some advices at allmetalshaping.com, and the rest is learning by doing at the moment with quite acceptable results... There is a facility offering some courses in our town, I might do a course just for watching how the experts are doing it! |
Hi Axel, congratulations on undertaking such a fantastic project. I admire anyone willing to take on new skills with metal shaping. The 206sp has always been a favourite of mine and the Italian V6 is it's heart. I agree with other posters here that the Alfa v6 is the best money for passion option. I once posted a link to a photo of such an engine in someone's Ferrari P4 replica:
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5...yaugusthw9.jpg So you can see it can be fitted in your chassis with an adapter plate. Other gearboxes besides the Renault include the Porsche Boxster/Audi which is cheaper than a 911 box and better suited. Many years ago I visited the guys in Invercargill New Zealand who were making a few exact replicas of the 206sp. They had a chassis or two and the aluminium panels - which I photographed. A guy in Queenstown had expertly made the body from scratch over a wooden buck in the original way. Here is a link to some more info on it: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/acalvert/205.html And there were some youtube videos of it in action, if I can find them. They offered to buy my Fiat Dino 2 litre motor, which is the road- going version of the engine used in the sports racing version. Costs for these engines are easily ten times the Alfa v6 though. So unless you want ultra precise replication why would you bother? And you have a 105% body size so I see that is not the path you wish to follow. I see on the German gt40 site people are suggesting all sorts of engines/gearboxes. The Fiat 130 v6 of 3.2 litres is a good engine but it is old, low powered by today's standards and only loosely connected to the Dino ( it was developed by the team that had reworked the Dino, in conjunction with Ferrari, for road-going reliability, including Lampredi - one of the all-time great ferrari engine designers, now working at Fiat). The Mazda KLZE is indeed great but front drive only ( see clairetoo's posts on locostbuilder uk website for adapter plate and info). The three litre mazda v6 is a totally different old lump of a design. Of course a Porsche Boxster engine/box would be great and easy, as would a Subaru flat4. But no Italian-ness! |
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih4TQwCsq9w
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpfrhqZbMbc A couple of clips of the NZ replica owned by the Chapman family in Christchurch Cheers Ross |
Thanks Ross!
This is very interesting Information you gave me! I also think alfa V6 will be the best choice! Very interesting pic with the P4 Alfa/Porsche drivetrain! Thick adaptor plate! I guess because of the hydraulic clutch conversion, which sits on the center drive shaft. And many thanks for the links, great vids of a nice reproduction. I have heard he has sold the car and I think it is/was for sale again, but I am not sure if it is the same car... Let's see how mine will turn out, wish I would have more time at the moment... |
Little update:
I installed the steering column and steering wheel, helps a lot moving the car in-and-out of the shop. And I tested my new english wheel with some panels for the bonnet. Huuuh...it's not like you buy that tool and you can do all kinds of double-curved panels immediately...there is a lot to learn, but it is amazing how easily it domes! Sometimes it domes so fast, that you soon realize it is already too much curvature, and then there is almost no way back...! I ended up in cutting that panel and made an extra part for it! http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps717bf34d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9bb87987.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps4504e939.jpg |
You're making it look far too easy, Axel. I would like an english wheel myself, I'd quite like to make one...
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