Madabout Kitcars Forum

Madabout Kitcars Forum (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/index.php)
-   Italian Replica builds and chat (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   All Aluminium 1957 250 Testarossa (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6588)

Lucky@LeMans 27th December 2017 23:26

All Aluminium 1957 250 Testarossa
 
I thought I would start a new build thread for my 250 Testarossa project. I'll get some photos together to show the progress so far and see how it develops.

I managed to purchase a complete Scaglietti inspired, all aluminium body for a 1957 250 Testarossa by Giordanengo. This is an early pontoon fender car, an absolutely stunning looking vehicle and one of my all time favourites.
It is about as close as you will ever get to the real thing, the body was originally fitted to a genuine chassis 0611GT complete with 3 litre V12 and running gear. A tiny number of these cars were coach built by Giordanengo in Italy during the 1980's
The body is mostly straight but there are a few parts missing that I am going to have to fabricate from scratch, namely the scuttle panel and bonnet.

I'll soon be on the look out for a suitable chassis to mount the body onto. Whilst I would love to rebuild it around all Ferrari running gear once again, it is simply just about impossible to source front engine, rear wheel drive base cars at sensible money.

I am going to have to be creative and put my engineering skills to the test !

At the moment I'm thinking spaceframe Lotus 7 style chassis. The live axle cars share a very similar wheel base and track to the original 250 TR. I'm thinking V6 engine so it will at least sound right or close to that high revving V12.


This is going to be a fantastic project !!

redratbike 28th December 2017 05:57

Alfa v6 to keep the Italian connection ????

lancelot link 28th December 2017 19:01

Looking forward to seeing this progress ...right up my street ...

Can I badger you every week or so for updates like you did to those poor old Tribute guys ? !!! (joking)

I'd be a bit wary of going too big an engine with an Escort rear axle , if you go the locost type route , maybe look at using a Capri axle or similar ?

Lucky@LeMans 28th December 2017 22:06

The Alfa V6 is first rate engine, the only draw back is the width of the unit and the lack of gearbox options for rear wheel drive. It has been done so I won't rule it out at this stage. I did have an Alfa 156 V6, I must admit the exhaust note is something else at high rpm!

JJMCD 29th December 2017 01:14

Excellent project! I would buy a Ferrari 400i with body damage and use the engine, other running gear and VIN number. The added value from it being an actual Ferrari will more than make up the additional cost of the donor. Hietbrink will be able to help with chassis, inner structural panels, etc. See: http://hietbrink.com/

Lucky@LeMans 29th December 2017 15:57

3 Attachment(s)
Here are a couple of photos of the TR parts. So far I have stripped the remaining paint and gone through all the box's of bits ! There were other bits included not shown in the photos. I have offered the parts up, everything lines up and will go back together without problem.

tricky360 29th December 2017 19:13

I was bidding on this also, I have other projects going on and this would of put me in a storage pickle if I bought it, still regret not going for it though
glad you've got it so I can see progress
would a cobra chassis work ?

Lucky@LeMans 29th December 2017 23:28

Most Cobra chassis are far too wide. Last thing I want to do is modify the body to fit a chassis.

JG 30th December 2017 09:11

Think you might be onto something with using a 7 style chassis as a donor. I was looking through the data sheets section of Madabout and there are some that are within a few mil of the TR wheelbase (hadn't realised the different 7's varied so much in wheelbase). Maybe even buy a used completed car and then just re-body it, no need to go through IVA then.

John

NeilF355 30th December 2017 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG (Post 92586)
Think you might be onto something with using a 7 style chassis as a donor. I was looking through the data sheets section of Madabout and there are some that are within a few mil of the TR wheelbase

I contacted the seller on ebay about this. It was originally on a 250 GT Boano chassis which has a 2600mm wheelbase rather than the 2350mm of the 250 TR.

I'm presuming that it was made for the 2600mm wheelbase.That would be easier than cutting the original chassis and then stretching it again after the 250TR body was removed (I understand that the original owner is now reinstating the Boano on his chassis).

Neil

Lucky@LeMans 30th December 2017 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG (Post 92586)
Think you might be onto something with using a 7 style chassis as a donor. I was looking through the data sheets section of Madabout and there are some that are within a few mil of the TR wheelbase (hadn't realised the different 7's varied so much in wheelbase). Maybe even buy a used completed car and then just re-body it, no need to go through IVA then.

John

The TR track is very narrow so the live axle 7's with the ford axle are about right. I'll have to get the tape measure out with regard to the wheel base to confirm it one way or another. The 250 GT Boano chassis was modified a fair bit to take the TR body, I can't see that Giordangengo would have stretched the TR body 250mm just to suit the standard chassis, I will check.

Buying an on the road car as a donor is the obvious route for me.

275NART 31st December 2017 00:39

Very cool project!

I'd build on a cobra chassis personally. This guy in SA is building on a cobra chassis with a 1uz toyota v8 http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/bu...a-project.html

Engine options- I'd consider inline 6 options too. Toyota 1jz or 2jz, datsun l series, Nissan rb series, bmw m and s series.

You would have a time fitting a jag v12 in there, trust me!

Paul L 31st December 2017 07:28

Lucky – Your approach of rebodying a Caterham/Westfield sounds like a very good idea. :cool:

I must confess, all I saw was a ‘challenge’ looking at the pile of parts in the advert. :eek:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psb71ybnmt.jpg

However, I’ve seen photos of this car on Rods ‘n’ Sods which is a different style, but the same principle.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/08...efe0a0caf9.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9a/1d/c6/9...9ee19e967d.jpg

Good luck, Paul. :)

Lucky@LeMans 31st December 2017 10:30

The photo's on the advert were poor, as was the description. The body is all hand crafted aluminium. It is largely complete and it fits back together when you offer it up. I think I have made a good decision here, get it mounted onto a suitable chassis, fit a good strong V6 engine and away we go !

Lucky@LeMans 31st December 2017 11:04

1 Attachment(s)
This is the actual car before it was dismantled.........

Jaguartvr 31st December 2017 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans (Post 92600)
This is the actual car before it was dismantled.........


Hard to tell them apart

lancelot link 31st December 2017 12:46

I really like yellow Ferrari's and silver ones ...but I guess most are going to be red ...

How did the scuttle etc get separated ? do you know ?

molleur 31st December 2017 12:53

Here you go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvW1C0BHpFY

Lucky@LeMans 31st December 2017 13:08

I have spoken with the guys that removed the body from the chassis. This was done some time ago and unfortunately the scuttle panel was lost then.
The owner kept the bonnet for his other 250 TR as a spare ! At that time there was no intention to re use the body so it was put into storage.

That video above helped me to identify the car, namely the bulge for the spare wheel in the lower boot area and that little rectangular plate above it. Also the seats and the silver paint in the head light recesses. Those features are unique to this particular car.

redratbike 31st December 2017 15:31

I think you made a good decision also ...is a 7 chassis the way forward may be easiest but I take it you'll be modifying it somewhat reather than just throwing the body on it

Are there other chassis that may fit like a tr chassis????

Lucky@LeMans 31st December 2017 15:58

The 7 style chassis are a good starting point. If you look at the shape of a typical 7 with swept back front wings you will see that the Testarossa has some similarities. The seating position relative to the rear wheels is also similar as is the long nose forward of the cockpit. When the outer panels of a 7 are removed you are left with a neat, light weight space frame. Even down to the suspension, the Testarossa was a live axle at the rear with double wishbones at the front, same as the Westfields etc. Wheel base and track are also very similar and as I said before, I wouldn't want to modify the bodywork to suit a chassis. If a 7 chassis is that close I shouldn't have to modify that either apart from adding mounting points for the body.

lancelot link 31st December 2017 17:42

I agree ...7 style will work if my previous mockups on a locost are anything to go by ....

molleur 31st December 2017 18:38

Having built three "Sevens" in the past, look to Jim McSorley's plans on the locost usa website. Several variations in length and width possible. All of Jim's space frames have undergone a finite analysis too. Much better than the "book" chassis.

Lucky@LeMans 1st January 2018 18:30

I've managed to strip the remaining paint over the holiday and sort out the dents at the front of the nose cone. I put in a couple of hours today lining up the front end panels and checking for fit and making little adjustments as required.
I'll get some ali sheet and steel tube this week in readiness to rebuild the scuttle panel. I should be in a position then to weld it all together.
I think I'm happy with the 7 style donor now, it seems to be the most logical and straight forward way to getting on the road. I just need to confirm the wheel base of the 250 before I start looking.

redratbike 1st January 2018 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by redratbike (Post 92608)
is a 7 chassis the way forward

My comment was based on my driving experiences of a 7 ok for short blasts but quite focused and tail happy

Lucky@LeMans 1st January 2018 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by redratbike (Post 92634)
My comment was based on my driving experiences of a 7 ok for short blasts but quite focused and tail happy

I've owned 2 Westfields and several of the early monocoque Robin Hood 7's all with various engines from a 1600 Ford crossflow to a tuned 3.9 Rover V8. I also had a Ginetta 27 with a Rover V8, with an Escort live axle.
You are right about the characteristics of the 7 but the bigger engines with matched diff ratio make them far more drivable.
Remember the 250 TR was a small car designed for the track first and foremost all be it with a big engine. The original TR must have been a handful with the V12 engine and skinny tyres.

redratbike 1st January 2018 21:52

Guy up the road from me has a tiger(?) 7 ...with 2 Kawasaki engines in ....sounds like an old f1 car

Well you know 7's better than me that's for sure .... when I drove the 7's I was much younger and er heavier footed ha ha .....get my kicks on motorbikes these days as have no space for a fun car just yet.

Lucky@LeMans 5th January 2018 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans (Post 92633)
I've managed to strip the remaining paint over the holiday and sort out the dents at the front of the nose cone. I put in a couple of hours today lining up the front end panels and checking for fit and making little adjustments as required.
I'll get some ali sheet and steel tube this week in readiness to rebuild the scuttle panel. I should be in a position then to weld it all together.
I think I'm happy with the 7 style donor now, it seems to be the most logical and straight forward way to getting on the road. I just need to confirm the wheel base of the 250 before I start looking.

I've got the outer wings tacked onto the nose. I'll offer up the inner wings over the weekend and tack them on too. I need to make up a frame to support the whole lot whilst I make the scuttle and bonnet . Photos to follow!

tricky360 6th January 2018 12:39

I have Coys auction house near me and today they have a tr in at the moment
It’s a very narrow car , I was quite surprised

lancelot link 6th January 2018 19:12

A lot of the Maserati's , Aston's and Ferrari's etc are quite narrow..it's the replica's that tend to be wide as they use more modern axles , jag stuff etc.
I personally think many of the jag based cars actually look too wide ...

molleur 6th January 2018 19:49

Ferrari 250TR Pontoon:
Wheelbase: 96.2 inches
Front track: 51.5 inches
Rear track: 51.2 inches

C-4 Corvette:
Wheelbase 96.2 inches
Front track: 59.6 inches
Rear track: 60.4 inches

We did a 250TR body and fabricated the wheelbase to the correct dimension, but had to widen the body proportionately to fit the C-4 track. Overall result looks good after a few "tweaks" around the wheel arches and tail lights.
Done as an R&D project, one proto has been built. The big Healey shown was also a "from scratch" project.
https://www.cavaliereroadsters.com/

275NART 8th January 2018 15:46

No thoughts on the cobra chassis build I posted?

https://i.imgur.com/USmuYOa.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fkw9Fi5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TVJFYFX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JvrCtXH.jpg

inspiration

https://i.imgur.com/mkPyGR0.jpg

Mister Towed 8th January 2018 16:01

Very nice indeed. Where'd you get the rear lights?

275NART 8th January 2018 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 92749)
Very nice indeed. Where'd you get the rear lights?

M,

I posted a link to the build thread for this fiberglass TR on the previous page, it is not mine. I am building a 275gtb on a volvo p1800. But if you click that link you can see how the TR builder made molds and cast the rear lenses himself.

Here's the link again for you
http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/bu...a-project.html

Mitchelkitman 8th January 2018 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 275NART (Post 92750)
M,

I posted a link to the build thread for this fiberglass TR on the previous page, it is not mine. I am building a 275gtb on a volvo p1800. But if you click that link you can see how the TR builder made molds and cast the rear lenses himself.

Here's the link again for you
http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/bu...a-project.html

Any idea which page for the making of the rear lights? - I've trawled through most of the pages without success :sorry:

Lucky@LeMans 8th January 2018 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 92749)
Very nice indeed. Where'd you get the rear lights?

Along with the body there were several boxes and included were the original rear lights and lots of other spares. I'm not sure if they are common to anything else but they look authentic and the same as other TR's on google.

275NART 8th January 2018 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman (Post 92753)
Any idea which page for the making of the rear lights? - I've trawled through most of the pages without success :sorry:

Post #44

Mitchelkitman 8th January 2018 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 275NART (Post 92755)
Post #44

Many thanks...... Don't know how I didn't find it :doh:

Paul L 9th January 2018 07:36

Lucky - This clip popped up on my YouTube recommendations list and I thought of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7B7lCDq7cY

Since then, I watched a few of these Chris Runge metal shaping videos.

It is amazing what someone with the right skills and tools can achieve. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

NeilF355 9th January 2018 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 92749)
Very nice indeed. Where'd you get the rear lights?

Hi Towed
The pontoon 250TR rear lights were also used on the Lancia Aurelia B24.

There are a few sets for sale
https://www.ebay.it/itm/LANCIA-AUREL...QAAOSwt5hYbMzN

http://www.amadeiricambi.it/lancia_a...equipment.html

https://www.okp.de/xtc2/Maserati/55-...ml?language=en


Just make sure you are sitting down before you see the prices!

Neil


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 06:30.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Madabout Kitcars 2014