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-   -   You know when you wish you hadn't started.....(brake woes) (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6757)

WorldClassAccident 26th May 2018 15:11

You know when you wish you hadn't started.....(brake woes)
 
The brake warning light flickered at first and then stayed on. Time for new pads. How hard can it be?

Rear pads looked okay so I started with the front passenger side. Done in about 30 minutes but the pads were only about half worn. Replaced then anyway and started on the drivers side.

The caliper was clamped to the disc with a seized piston. I managed to get it off be the piston was not going back in the caliper so decided it was easier to replace that risk a refurb.

Brake flexi would not come out of the caliper so decided to replace the flexi as well. That too was a challenge to remove but a blow torch and penetrating oil overcame the stuck fitting.

New pads fitted, brake bled and ready for the test run. Pressed the brake pedal one more time before heading out and suddenly it went to the floor.

Damn, I must have left something loose so I whip the wheel off to see brake fluid pissing out of the metal brake pipe where it is clipped to the inner wing.

I hadn't even touched that bit as it is part hidden by a plastic wheel arch liner but I guess it was rusty and the rest of the work I had done had disturbed the rust and the pipe had failed.

I am glad it happened on the drive and not when I was actually driving but now I need to replace the metal brake pipes and I don't have a pipe flaring tool.

I share spend the next hour or so gently swearing while I try and work out exactly what to do.

As always, advice and help welcome.

https://youtu.be/SfN0SfASwN4

IanA 26th May 2018 16:59

The pipe and flaring tool should be easy to get from your local car spares shop. I use Motorist Discount Centre a lot. Their branch at 3 Fairview Parade, Beaulieu Rd, Hythe, Southampton, SO45 5GT is open until 17:30 today- give them a call on 023 8084 1164.

Make sure you get some joining unions as well. Trace the pipe back from the break to where it seems sound and then cut and flare there. Alternatively, replace the whole length back to the ABS pump under the fuse box on the rear near side of the engine area.

WorldClassAccident 26th May 2018 17:47

...and I made the mistake of buying the flaring tool from Halfrauds.

I got the first one home only to find three bits missing from a supposedly seal packet so it was back to Halfrauds for a replacement.

Fortunately they had two others in stock.
Unfortunately one of them had the 3/8ths fitting nicked.
Fortunately the other was complete so I drove home.
Unfortunately the wing nut used to close the clamp snapped as I was hand tightening it
Fortunately I got back to Halfrauds in time for a refund.
Unfortunately it was then to late to go anywhere else.
Fortunately MrsWCA met me at the door with a cold Pimms and I am going to ignore the car and let the brake fluid drip into the pint glass underneath until tomorrow.

Barber 26th May 2018 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident (Post 95212)
...and I made the mistake of buying the flaring tool from Halfrauds.

I got the first one home only to find three bits missing from a supposedly seal packet so it was back to Halfrauds for a replacement.

Fortunately they had two others in stock.
Unfortunately one of them had the 3/8ths fitting nicked.
Fortunately the other was complete so I drove home.
Unfortunately the wing nut used to close the clamp snapped as I was hand tightening it
Fortunately I got back to Halfrauds in time for a refund.
Unfortunately it was then to late to go anywhere else.
Fortunately MrsWCA met me at the door with a cold Pimms and I am going to ignore the car and let the brake fluid drip into the pint glass underneath until tomorrow.

Don't do anything rash.

I have avoided the car for a few days, painting the walls in the dining room, and today, after the final coat, also undercoated the skirting boards. Top coat tomorrow am, and weather permitting, have a bash at fixing the driver door lock. I seem to have knacked the manual lock function with my unsuccessful endeavours to replace the lock activator with one that works better. It should be a simple job. I probably didn't hook the wire hook thing back in properly. I just hope i can do it without taking the locking mechanism out.

It goes in to have the rear brakes checked and hopefully get rid of the two warning lights on Tuesday.

IanA 26th May 2018 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barber (Post 95213)
...It goes in to have the rear brakes checked and hopefully get rid of the two warning lights on Tuesday.

Good luck with that. "In theory" the handbrake shoes should never wear out because they are only used when the car is stationary. But I bet the adjusters are clagged up. I've got my eye on some on eBay at 6.49 each for when I do mine. Also the expanding handbrake cable locks for 32.99 the pair. I already have all the pads (F&R) and the shoes.
Just need a good supply of round tuits.

WorldClassAccident 26th May 2018 18:48

Next question is what pipe material, copper or cupro-nickel?

What are the relative advantages and how easy are they to flare etc?

IanA 26th May 2018 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident (Post 95215)
Next question is what pipe material, copper or cupro-nickel? What are the relative advantages and how easy are they to flare etc?

I've used both. Apparently "Kunifer 10" is the better one to go for. It's rustproof cupro-nickel. I've always found it easy to flare using hand tools. I found that copper feels "a bit soft" in comparison but had no problems with it. And if it's visible, polishing it looks a bit bling- personal taste on that.
Having said that, shiny Kunifer is also available.

WorldClassAccident 27th May 2018 11:30

I believe that the Z3 has 'bubble flare' NOT 'double flare' on the pipe ends.

I base this statement on the adaptor on the end of the brake flexi shown below and picture 5 on this page : http://www.fedhillusa.com/?page=flare

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/898/2...0a7e4ef1_c.jpg20180527_111700 by WCA!, on Flickr

Please confirm that this is right or correct me if I am wrong.

WorldClassAccident 27th May 2018 12:50

Well this should be arriving on Wednesday so hopefully I will be able to get the damn thing back on the road : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362194400509

Mitchelkitman 27th May 2018 17:35

Brake pipe flaring tool - From (bitter) experience a lot of the flaring tools are carp.
I had a very good (hand held or clamp in vice) tool that had screw in formers. I think they ceased manufacture years ago Mafco?
Anyway, the powerhand one looks like the same design.
Just seen you note above, and it looks like you have the good flarer!

IanA 29th May 2018 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident (Post 95215)
Next question is what pipe material, copper or cupro-nickel? What are the relative advantages and how easy are they to flare etc?

Another answer to this- I was at the MOT garage this morning with my Astra (passed of course) and one of the guys was doing an end-to-end pipe replacement on a Renault. He was using copper "because it's easier" but what I hadn't seen before- he'd managed to get the old pipe off with its original bends in place and was taping the new pipe to it in order to replicate the twists and turns. Being copper, he didn't need to use a pipe bender, just eased the curves round manually to match the old pipe's shape.

Previously I had just measured the old, cut the new off the roll, added the unions and flares (in that order) and fed it onto the brackets, etc. but will remember this in future.

WorldClassAccident 29th May 2018 19:34

I have a little pipe bender from when I put the brakes in on the G46 (Scimitar). For that I only had about half of the original pipes in place to guide me as to where the pipes went.

This time I plan to cut the existing pipes indie the engine bay where they are good and then remove the end with the leak to act as a template.

I will also be 'wiggling' the pipes on the other three wheels to see if they are about to go.

I am almost tempted to trace the remaining brake pipes from the master cylinder to the point where they go 'outside' the car and put a fresh end on each one.

The trouble is that while it sounds sensible, I have that nagging doubt that every 'extra' I do will lead to another challenge andI want to keep the car on the road over the summer.

I will be posting 'hands dirty' videos on my channel after each job gets completed : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_fMuc-v6l4&t=32s

Plus shorter, less well edited ones which I will post on here probably

Mitchelkitman 4th June 2018 18:52

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman (Post 95222)
Brake pipe flaring tool - From (bitter) experience a lot of the flaring tools are carp.
I had a very good (hand held or clamp in vice) tool that had screw in formers. I think they ceased manufacture years ago Mafco?
Anyway, the powerhand one looks like the same design.
Just seen you note above, and it looks like you have the good flarer!

Just found it in the garage - 'Moprod Supra Easyflare'

IanA 4th June 2018 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman (Post 95385)
Just found it in the garage - 'Moprod Supra Easyflare'

I have one of those along with its original packaging and some of the clips that came with it- and the "flaring grease" of course.
Always found it easy to use.

Mitchelkitman 4th June 2018 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanA (Post 95389)
I have one of those along with its original packaging and some of the clips that came with it- and the "flaring grease" of course.
Always found it easy to use.

I had one 20 years ago and lost it during a house move. Bought another one a couple of months later (much to my surprise).


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