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Welshkiwi 12th September 2017 05:14

Welsh Kiwi's Build Thread - 275GTB
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hi guys,

This is the initial post as I have threatened to make on my build. A long way to go with this as Chris and Dan have some work to do to marry a set of panels up with my donor, but I will putting the short delay to good use with the donor.
Just a quick thanks to Kidge (Edgik), who without his sheer determination in getting something off the ground for this for many years, I would be left in New Zealand unable to get any kit built because of frontal impact regs. So Edgik - Cheers:thumb:

See attached photos, 1999 2.8 Z3 (i know it has 3.0 on the back and no one has any history why) :dizzy:

Basic Plan for the kit will be:

No badges so we are not doing a replica, apart from possibly a custom "Ferrari-esque" Badge on the rear and maybe a couple of "disegno di Pininfarina" on the side as a homage to the great man and the work he did with Scaglietti. The car will be a homage to the era, not a replica.

Intended at present to be Coupe, metallic grey/gun metal with grille and chrome ornaments such as bullet mirrors, bumpers, clear front indicators, teardrops on the side and round taillights.
Interior will remain reasonably stock as I have lucked in with a beautiful black/grey interior with wood effect console, chrome trim on the gauges and good spec in electric condiments and side airbags etc. Will show pictures when I get more underway. Wooden rim steering wheel will eventuate.

Final trappings will lay 4 pipe exhaust underneath "with the required orchestra" and wire wheels and appropriate rubber. I am hoping to keep the donor originals whilst I am running round "in work and in primer" (As they are nice already), when the BMW centre's disappear. I will need a bit of time in the primer coat to normalise the "green" fibreglass and get all the residual stresses and cracking out from the bolt/bonding process and the New Zealand UV rays out. Not going to be happy with a few $K's of paint having cracks in it after a few months!

Looking forward to keeping you all in the loop with this. You are more than welcome to pay me a visit during the build, UBER fare though may be a bit restrictive for you though!

Cheers - Here we go!

Paul L 12th September 2017 06:42

WelshKiwi – Sounds like a good plan to me.

I know the development of Kidge’s car took a lot of time and effort, but it looks well worth it to me. :cool:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6.../DSCF8137a.jpg

I also followed the approach of getting my car on the road without paint first.
( Although taking it back off the road for paint has taken longer than I expected. :rolleyes: )

Good luck, Paul. :)

Welshkiwi 12th September 2017 07:37

Cheers Paul. A plan is only a point to deviate from, but at the moment I think I have it as covered as we can for the spec. Only time will tell! Cheers for the photo, the more I look at the lines of kidges, the more I want to get underway. Have to make sure I give it the respect it deserves. Cheers Mark.

Jaguartvr 12th September 2017 08:38

Will you be following Kidges window design?
I wonder if a coupe side window could work?
Did Chris take splash moulds of the bumpers?

Probably won't be a problem in NZ but on my Griffith I had terrible problems with the headlight lenses misting up.

Welshkiwi 12th September 2017 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr (Post 90577)
Will you be following Kidges window design?
I wonder if a coupe side window could work?
Did Chris take splash moulds of the bumpers?

Probably won't be a problem in NZ but on my Griffith I had terrible problems with the headlight lenses misting up.

Hi JagTvr. Windows are likely to be original Z3 to keep the window function etc. Chris/Dan are working on the options for this. Coupe side window probably would work, just some changes to the mould would be required.
Chris has moulds of original bumpers so should be able to supply. Noted about the headlight covers. If I get an issue I may carry out some mods underneath to duct a small amount of air into the interior which should sort that issue. The lenses are attached externally and not internally like the Griffith, so it may not have those issues. Cheers.

Barber 12th September 2017 15:11

Good news, exciting, and good luck for your journey.

Paul L 13th September 2017 22:03

WelshKiwi - Hi Mark,

This video popped up in mythe "Recommended" section of YouTube the other day.

If you haven't seen it before, it might also help with your motivation. :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzM9xcGAhbE

Good luck, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 14th September 2017 07:17

Great short film Paul. Love the line '...who needs a radio?' He really sums up what classic car ownership is all about whether it's a ten million dollar Ferrari or a home built special.

Really beginning to warm to the looks of the 275 too, first impressions for me were that it's about a decade too young looking for my taste, but it's really grown on me as this thread has evolved. Would be nice to see it go into production, whether that be as a kit or turnkey builds.

Welshkiwi 14th September 2017 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 90626)
WelshKiwi - Hi Mark,

This video popped up in mythe "Recommended" section of YouTube the other day.

If you haven't seen it before, it might also help with your motivation. :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzM9xcGAhbE

Good luck, Paul. :)

Thanks Paul, I think I have seen this about 5 times in the last week! There is a lot of emotion and romance in these old cars. I must admit I am starting to get a bit of that myself and I am only building a kit! Good news today, hoping that the kit will be produced and landed in NZ by around Feb. So I really have to get into sourcing bits. Have the headlight covers already, just need to put some time into door handles and rear tailights/side repeaters as the "main trouble" bits. Cheers Mark.

Lucky@LeMans 14th September 2017 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshkiwi (Post 90567)
Hi guys,

This is the initial post as I have threatened to make on my build. A long way to go with this as Chris and Dan have some work to do to marry a set of panels up with my donor, but I will putting the short delay to good use with the donor.
Just a quick thanks to Kidge (Edgik), who without his sheer determination in getting something off the ground for this for many years, I would be left in New Zealand unable to get any kit built because of frontal impact regs. So Edgik - Cheers:thumb:

See attached photos, 1999 2.8 Z3 (i know it has 3.0 on the back and no one has any history why) :dizzy:

Basic Plan for the kit will be:

No badges so we are not doing a replica, apart from possibly a custom "Ferrari-esque" Badge on the rear and maybe a couple of "disegno di Pininfarina" on the side as a homage to the great man and the work he did with Scaglietti. The car will be a homage to the era, not a replica.

Intended at present to be Coupe, metallic grey/gun metal with grille and chrome ornaments such as bullet mirrors, bumpers, clear front indicators, teardrops on the side and round taillights.
Interior will remain reasonably stock as I have lucked in with a beautiful black/grey interior with wood effect console, chrome trim on the gauges and good spec in electric condiments and side airbags etc. Will show pictures when I get more underway. Wooden rim steering wheel will eventuate.

Final trappings will lay 4 pipe exhaust underneath "with the required orchestra" and wire wheels and appropriate rubber. I am hoping to keep the donor originals whilst I am running round "in work and in primer" (As they are nice already), when the BMW centre's disappear. I will need a bit of time in the primer coat to normalise the "green" fibreglass and get all the residual stresses and cracking out from the bolt/bonding process and the New Zealand UV rays out. Not going to be happy with a few $K's of paint having cracks in it after a few months!

Looking forward to keeping you all in the loop with this. You are more than welcome to pay me a visit during the build, UBER fare though may be a bit restrictive for you though!

Cheers - Here we go!

Good luck with your build. Will be interesting to see your take on the final look of the car. Good idea not to paint until it has all settled down.

NeilF355 14th September 2017 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshkiwi (Post 90629)
Have the headlight covers already, just need to put some time into door handles and rear tailights/side repeaters as the "main trouble" bits. Cheers Mark.

Hi Mark
Have you considered the Lancia Stratos / Fiat 850 & 1100 rear lights?
They have a rectangular centre reflector rather than the round one on the original as the only difference and I have seen pictures of original 275s with these lights fitted.
Good luck with the build.
Neil

Welshkiwi 14th September 2017 10:01

Hi Neil, yup been scouring those types as well as a few alternatives such as BMW 2002 and some more modern repurpose ideas. Thanks for the hints.
Just managed to secure clear front indicators, Fiat 500d, with alloy rims.
Hopefully a good size for the kit when it turns up.
Currently thinking Morris Oxford boot hinges as they are about 10" in length so should be a good size on the back panels.
Cheers for all the good wishes guys, really looking forward to getting stuck into this build and making sure I do it right.:tea:

Welshkiwi 17th September 2017 09:10

Hi guys quick update. Parts are coming along. Picked up Fiat 850/lancia stratos style lights with surrounds today. - from ricambio in Wallington, London. Won't see them until Chris/Dan decide to show as they are going straight to them. Not the cheapest option, but when you want a certain look for the car, it is hard to deviate too far away from original style. Fingers crossed they do the business. Still looking for side repeaters in a teardrop style. Possibly fiat may be an option. Also scouring for door handles. Cheers M.

casamolino 17th September 2017 09:41

Morning , these are what i have used ,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seitenblin...sAAOSwbqpTxERK

would they be suitable for you? Geoff .

Welshkiwi 17th September 2017 10:07

Thanks for that Geoff....
They look the business. You may have just allocated more of my budget! Cheers Mark.:icon_mrgreen:

Welshkiwi 19th September 2017 08:40

Epic fail with the bambina 500d indicators. The supplier said "not new" will need a polish. More like: need retention studs unseizing and straightened, supply of lense screws, Bakelite cracked and missing in terminals, bulbs seized in holders etc, etc. Guy has been good and heading back to him but early lesson learned. Buy new! Choose wisely!. There is only so much that can be brought back to life...

Jaguartvr 19th September 2017 08:58

Nearly everything that I bought "cheap" has been replaced.
Some things however are best bought 2nd hand.
Most of the new chrome items have started showing signs of rust and have been returned. I bought a set of "new old stock" door handles and they are still as good as new. Good old chrome is much better than new chrome.

Have a look here for lights
http://www.superformance.co.uk/360/lights.html

I used the same indicators as Casamolino, look great and I think they are stainless steel. No rust yet!

Welshkiwi 19th September 2017 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr (Post 90731)
Nearly everything that I bought "cheap" has been replaced.
Some things however are best bought 2nd hand.
Most of the new chrome items have started showing signs of rust and have been returned. I bought a set of "new old stock" door handles and they are still as good as new. Good old chrome is much better than new chrome.

Have a look here for lights
http://www.superformance.co.uk/360/lights.html

I used the same indicators as Casamolino, look great and I think they are stainless steel. No rust yet!

Thanks fella, I certainly will have to balance between vintage, tired and NOS/NNS. Good to hear you went that way with the indicators. Have been looking at superformance, will have to dive in a bit deeper with the credit card! Cheers for the good advice.

Welshkiwi 5th October 2017 05:55

Hi guys, just a real quick update.
Getting close to finalising the kit spec, going to ring Chris today so hoping for some news on that front. Also hoping the christmas completion is doable as well.
Update on the parts situation:
Followed some well laid advice from others so at present have
- Fiat 850/Lancia Stratos tailights.
- Teardrop side repeaters (ala casarino/jaguartvr)
- Carello clear glass 68mm front indicators/park etc.
- Griffith headlight covers
- Lucas rectangular fog (original)
- Mk1 Capri door hardware (just to see what they may look like on the kit as they are nice vintage shape but not Ferrari style)
- Pininfarina side badges.
Donor is running well at the moment, however have been chasing a parasitic drain potential over a few days but can't find anything wrong as have a good 40 milliamps of drain on the battery with everything off/shut up. I think my kids may be to blame with the doors! Grrrr. Battery will get a full charge on the weekend and check in case it is a self discharge issue.
Keep you up to date with the plans, hopefully get some pictures soon!
Happy building, Mark.

Barber 5th October 2017 07:11

Exciting times, so good luck. I know, the waiting is frustrating, but buying the accessories is at least progress. Chris will start on my project in January. I hope to secure a Z3 shortly, and if so, I will commence on seat changes and probably the dash whilst it is still a soft top, as access will be so much easier. Also, the parcel shelf, as one of the treads mentioned that it is really difficult to treat it once in due to tight access.

Welshkiwi 5th October 2017 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barber (Post 91001)
Exciting times, so good luck. I know, the waiting is frustrating, but buying the accessories is at least progress. Chris will start on my project in January. I hope to secure a Z3 shortly, and if so, I will commence on seat changes and probably the dash whilst it is still a soft top, as access will be so much easier. Also, the parcel shelf, as one of the treads mentioned that it is really difficult to treat it once in due to tight access.

Good ideas Barber. I am keeping my interior stock at present as it looks pretty vintage already with the dark tones in there. Definitely will be spending some good time on the shelf area myself. Going to be a dark leather trim to match the rest of the car with either some classic style netting to secure loose items or maybe some straps/buckles etc. just have to wait and see once the roof is out. Headlining will be cream colour, have seen a superb original 275 in gunmetal grey, black leather and cream headlining which ticks all my boxes! What kit you starting? I have seen the Z3gato thread but can't work out what kit bits from Chris you will be basing it on as a starter! Cheers Mark

Barber 5th October 2017 08:08

I am having a new Z3gato kit built - see my thread on Tribute builds, which cobbles together bits from existing models and will make them look like a combination of the various Zagato models designed late 50s to early 60s. I specified stock windows, which is probably where Chris is leveraging the work for yours (if you are still going that route).

Jaguartvr 5th October 2017 08:46

Mini door handles are used on the 250 swb.
They are very simple to fit and work well. Small things like door handles can cause a lot of extra work and if they don't work properly will cause you a lot of grief.

Barber, when you say Z3gato, is it the silver Aston style or one of the red cars?

Barber 5th October 2017 09:57

Given where we are starting from, it will be less like the red cars, and more like the Maserati, Ferrari and AM etc, using styling cues from them all. I am depending on Chris and Dan's skill to make sure it doesn't turn out like a lemon.

Whereas lancelot link's cars take there cues from a variety of 50's racers, mine takes its cues from turn of the decade racing coupes.

Welshkiwi 6th October 2017 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr (Post 91006)
Mini door handles are used on the 250 swb.
They are very simple to fit and work well. Small things like door handles can cause a lot of extra work and if they don't work properly will cause you a lot of grief.

Thanks Jag. If you have any photos or setup info on how you did your mini handles it would be appreciated. Certainly looking at that kind of look. I am fitting the hardware high up on the door line like the original.
Cheers Mark.

Welshkiwi 6th October 2017 07:48

Here's the plan guys
 
2 Attachment(s)
Spoke with Chris yesterday, here's the rundown on the kit plan.

- 275GTB coupe, with standard Z3 windows in the design, looking at options for the visual lines to be similar to the original coupe window recess.
- Slate grey/Graphite grey RAL colour
- Standard interior black leather (wooden racing wheel) with some "trimmings" for the rear shelf and headlining cream colour.
- Aston style fuel filler on the rear quarter top surface
- Fibre-glass bumpers - will be chrome wrapped to complete.
- Ferrari original style lights.
- Stainless sill stripe on the sides.
Production looking around Christmas time.

Here's what I am basing our hard work for the end result to get to! Can't wait to get going.......:wof:

NZ Steve 17th October 2017 04:11

Hi if your car was 1st registered in NZ before the 31st March 1999 and NZ new u don't have to worry about the frontal impact area and the front bumper can be removed :decision: Steve

Welshkiwi 17th October 2017 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ Steve (Post 91224)
Hi if your car was 1st registered in NZ before the 31st March 1999 and NZ new u don't have to worry about the frontal impact area and the front bumper can be removed :decision: Steve

Hi Steve, no on both accounts unfortunately. When I was talking to the LVTA guys after seeing the photos of a "before and after" job for the 250 SWB they weren't sure that even the frontal impact regs would save it as some thoughts were heading towards structural rigidity between the two absorbers points/chassis rails. I wasn't going to get involved in all that which was why I went for the 275GTB. Now I am really glad anyway because I have fallen in lust with the body shape and the rarity of the car! Can't wait for the panels to arrive....:icon_mrgreen:

Welshkiwi 17th October 2017 05:57

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oJmfJl8W5YcEYz4J3

Trying out my image options before I start. Hopefully here's the starting point!

Paul L 17th October 2017 06:23

WelshKiwi – Sorry, I missed your grey colour choice. :cool:

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...9&d=1507272243

I am sure that will make the car look more original that painting it red.

Did you see this build with a similar(ish) colour?

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=6186

And finally, good to see your donor car too.

Good luck, Paul. :)

Welshkiwi 17th October 2017 06:34

Cheers Paul, coming together nicely. Just not sure I can wait until Feb for the panels to arrive though! That car is nice, I am looking at that colour or just a touch lighter. Looking at the NZ sky as we speak I think I can see the exact colour! :rain::rain:

nzidol 21st October 2017 05:18

Another Kiwi...
 
Hi Mark,

Good to see another Tribute kit coming this way. I have the exact same Z3, although a 98 model so I can remove the front bumper.
Note that the rule is build before 1 march 1999 and imported before 1 april 2002, so does not have to be NZ new... Mine was imported in 2001 from South-Africa and like yours in perfect condition.

The remark on structural integrity seems a bit strange given that the bar is mounted on shock absorbers and a rotating pin there would not be much intended structural integrity there. I am ordering a 250 California so should not need any certification just a normal wof.... :playball:

In discussing the 250 Coupe with the LVVTA here in Wellington they did point to https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/s...ior_Impact.pdf section 2.4.9

Code:

all sections of a roll-bar or a roll-cage positioned adjacent to any A-Zone
must be covered in a high density energy absorbing material which:
(i) meets SFI specification 45.1 or another equivalent motor-sporting
specification; and
(ii) is not less than 15 mm in thickness in the area facing the occupant
cell.

A-Zone is 160mm either side of the center line of the seat and should be completely clear..

With a cabrio you can have unprotected steel bars next to your head but with a fixed roof you can't. :fish: SFI 45.1 is a motor-racing spec and only makes sense when you are wearing a helmet. Clearly the rule targets certification of Targa car's but you probably need to be aware of it and also see if they don't object to the construction of the roof support (if you call it a roll cage they certainly will have lots of requirements).
Adding rubber will reduce the head space further.... and yes I did sit in a 250 Coupe when I was in Europe and, with standard seats and being 6.6", it is cramped, another car with bucket seats was more like a standard z3. Just need to find a smaller steering wheel....

It looks like http://www.retroclassiccarparts.com has very reasonable shipping cost and they don't charge VAT on export, so looking forward to receiving the headlamp rings. Most Mini parts are readily available in NZ but rear window could be a problem...

Looking forward to the day we can have both cars in a picture.....

Cheers,

Ido

Welshkiwi 21st October 2017 19:49

Great to see another kiwi on the tribute trail!
 
Hi Idol,

Cheers for all the info, I am going to have to look into the rollcage/roof protection piece a little bit more as when talking with the LVTA it wasn't something they saw as a highlight when discussed.

I may have to be careful with that one.

With the frontal impact regs etc for the 250SWB, I am certainly not suggesting that it can't be done, because I know that time of entry/build reg is a factor. It just wasn't an option with the donor's that I could find that were in good enough nick. The only piece of info that also was key for me was that after the guys in Wellington discussed the issue at length with some photos of examples from me of previous builds, they commented in my donor case some kind of structure would need to remain between the two absorber points if removed. It was discussed briefly that may be the case with any example (whether it met import timing dates for the frontal regs or not), however as I believed in my case I couldn't fit any structure in there with the proximity of the front clam edge to the radiator, it was a no go for me and I picked the 275GTB kit which kept the front bar anyway. All I would recommend is that you can get surety from the LVVTA on that front bar if you haven't already got it. Expensive if we get it wrong!

Keep in touch, feel free to PM if you want, look forward to the day we may be able to get two cars together in NZ for pictures etc! As you know I am in Auckland. Cheers for all the good tips, Mark.

nzidol 22nd October 2017 02:40

Hi Mark,

Planning to stay within the threshold regulations https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/s..._Threshold.pdf such that there is no lvvta involvement. Alas that also includes not moving the petrol cap....

The only reference I can find to chassis rails is in https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/s...tal_Impact.pdf section 2.2.2.b

Code:

any chassis rail or sub-frame rail bridging components provided by the
vehicle manufacturer (such as structural tie-bars behind the front
bumper) are not removed or significantly modified.

Which is a recent change, so certifiers will still be building experience around that, but as far as I can see does not apply to the Z3 bumper.

Cheers,

Ido

Welshkiwi 26th October 2017 05:46

Shiny bits have arrived!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Thanks to casamolino and jagtvr for the great tips.
Small steps for the car but you can only eat an elephant 1 chunk at a time!

Welshkiwi 2nd November 2017 07:44

Hey all, hoping for some exciting updates soon for you all. Spoke at length with Chris last night and won’t give too much detail as concepts are fine, don’t want to place any pressure on top of him with what can be done.
However we are on the same page with our thoughts and visual touches for how the car will look. A lot of agreement in how it will look.
We are hoping soon for some pictures to share, rear panels are being trialled this week and work on the form of the windows going on with the new mule that Chris has.
Some locked in details tho are:
Original z3 windows being used.
Monza type fuel filler on top of rh rear quarter panel.
RAL 7015 slate grey gelcoat colour.
Looking possible the kit will be completed production by Xmas as planned. I cannot wait to get started, the wait will be unbearable. (Better dedicate my time on the donor to keep my fingers in activity!) Update you soon......

Jaguartvr 2nd November 2017 09:07

If you can't wait you can always prepare the lights and indicators.
I thought they would be a quick part of the build but was very wrong.
Are you allowed to cut any of the bodyshell away in NZ? If so you can remove the rear panel in the boot and flip the crash bar upside down so you get one large boot rather than 2 smaller compartments.

Welshkiwi 2nd November 2017 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr (Post 91501)
If you can't wait you can always prepare the lights and indicators.
I thought they would be a quick part of the build but was very wrong.
Are you allowed to cut any of the bodyshell away in NZ? If so you can remove the rear panel in the boot and flip the crash bar upside down so you get one large boot rather than 2 smaller compartments.

Hi Jag,

The donor has to stay on the road for the summer down under really, so I will be limited to “normal bits” such as discs/pads and some sealing work/ tidying the interior as required. I am sure cutting the back panel out will go against the regs in nz. I am getting by with pretty minimal LVV certification due only panel swapping etc. Will look into it though when the panels arrive in case doable. Good thoughts.

Welshkiwi 9th November 2017 08:02

The magic has begun!
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hi all,

The magic has begun and we are underway.
The following photos are not my panels but the ones that Chris/Dan are putting their wizardry to, to make the concepts that we have discussed come to life.

The rear panel is on the mule with a stripped off roof covering/structure still there and being modified to accept the Z3 standard window glass. - What we are envisaging is the recess/profile of the 275 GTB window, with the Z3 glass and sealing surface inside that profile - Let's see what the guys can conjure up. Chris seems to think that what we are looking at is certainly doable. The top surface will be covered with a rain/water gutter the full length of the glass and almost back to the quarter panel vents.

I'll keep you in the loop with progress as there are a few other concepts planned that hopefully will come to fruition. Looks like Barbers Z3 Zagato will certainly have a good base to start from with the learning's on the window shape/setup.

Cheers Mark.

Barber 9th November 2017 08:56

Step by step, the dream draws ever closer.:smile:


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