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-   -   F 275gtb/z3 (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5207)

Kit 275GTB 24th November 2014 11:33

F 275gtb/z3
 
2 Attachment(s)
In Blue Peter Fashion - here is one I made earlier:

This was an unfinished project, putting a fibreglass body 275GTB/4 body on to a shortened Ferrari 400a chassis. I sold it earlier this year to a guy in Italy when I ran into health problems and thought I would not be able to finish it. :icon_cry:
Now I have recovered and looking for something else to do and thought I might put the same body on a BMW Z3. The reason for choosing this is that all the Z3 panels are bolt on and opinion has it that it will not need an IVA. I am planning to retain the screen for ditto and rollover strength and the door internals for side impact protection. Also, the modern (ish) mechanicals will make it possible to use as a daily driver and the price of a donor is much more reasonable.:smile:
Purists will not like it because I will have to make some concessions about the profile because of (1) the windscreen shape (2) the difference in conformation between the door, screen, wheels and bonnet.:shocked:
I have played with cut out profiles taken from engineering drawings and cut up 1:24 scale models of the Z3 and 275GTB and reckon that it is possible and not too far from the 275GTB shape. This composite model shows the Z3 door in grey.

So, before I commit to buying a Z3 and altering my 275GTB panels, what do you reckon? Am I wasting my time?

jones 24th November 2014 15:59

Hi I would recommend taking a mold from your existing kit first so that when you go down the cut and shut route you can remake any panels if you go too far.

But a great idea!

Kit 275GTB 24th November 2014 16:09

I have the moulds and I am in the process of making a standard body. I will then cut it to fit the 30mm longer wheelbase and shorter bonnet as you can see in the composite 1:24 model, then make new moulds and from them make a new body. That is quite a long job!

Kit 275GTB 25th November 2014 09:07

Side windows and indicators
 
With the help of some references from Geoffs 250GTO thread, I have found side indicator repeaters at http://www.ebay.de/itm/Seitenblinker...a-Fulvia-Coupe.
I am looking at two possibilities for side window glass - glass from the Z3 coupe available from america at $150 each (plus postage and duty) or lexan windows from Plastics 4 Performance (uk) www.lexan-windows.com/ at 90 each. The coupe has a different glass profile which might work.

Axel 26th November 2014 06:15

Hi,
tell me more about that 275GTB/4 fiberglass body!
It looks very close to the original car on the 400i chassis! Where are you located? Are you selling bodies?

Good luck with your project,
Axel

Kit 275GTB 26th November 2014 07:13

275 look alike
 
Hi Axel,
Thanks for the complement. Read my original posting for what I have NOT said. I don't know about copyright law and I don't want Mr F's lawyers chasing me. I can only work for an hour or so each day so you would have to wait for me to finish my adaptation of the shape to a Z3 chassis. My thoughts on that have changed and I will have to buy a new 275 model to see if I can move the wheel arches to make it fit the door and windscreen better, rather than my original plan to lengthen the sill by 30mm. I live in Derby and send me a private message if you want to come and see work in progress.
George

Kit 275GTB 30th November 2014 19:52

paper trial of 275/z3
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here are my second thoughts - my Photoshop skills are not well developed so I have ended up cutting the outlines on printed paper and sticking them together.
I have started by putting the front of the door opening in the right place then cutting the wheel arches to fit my rather battered Z3 model. The paler red door is from the Z3 to show the differences in the door skins.
I have used Photoshop to fill in the body to the top corner profile of the Z3 window. I have also lifted the roof line to match the window top edge. The other major alteration is to shorten the rear edge of the bonnet to match the lower edge of the screen.
This makes the profile a bit tubbier than the 275 but I think it maintains the essence of the shape. I won't really know until I make a full size one.
(P.S. How do I make this image appear inline?)

NeilF355 1st December 2014 10:48

Hi George
I recall seeing the car you built earlier for sale, I’m glad to hear you are feeling better and looking to build a new car. I seem to remember you saying that you could do the panels for a 275 Nart spyder, would that be on the BMW Z3 as well?
As far as copyright law goes my understanding is that you can legally build up to 4 exact copies of any production car for your personal use. I got this info from one of my friends who ran into trouble with Volkswagen Audi and had to research the legalities of his kit.
I have sent you a PM.
Good luck with your build.
Neil

Kit 275GTB 1st December 2014 15:28

275 nart
 
Hi Neil,
Thanks for that info. The NART variation is quite easy if you have a standard 275GTB but at the moment all my time and effort is taken up with the 275GTB/Z3. I have had a very nice conversation with Tribute who could be interested when they see a finished product so I am energised again.
George

Kit 275GTB 5th December 2014 22:11

window channel
 
More second thoughts - does anyone know where I can get metal U channel to make a window guide? And how do I bend it without getting a kink (in the metal, not me!)

redratbike 5th December 2014 22:22

Think you need to cut slits in it...try cbs

Kit 275GTB 6th December 2014 07:05

window channel
 
I can't find the metal on car builder solutions website but they do have the felt liner. I think I will have to go and look in the scrap yard.

NeilF355 6th December 2014 10:06

Have you tried your local builders merchants? I know B&Q do a 10mm wide and 10mm deep steel U channel in 2000mm lengths.

Kit 275GTB 6th December 2014 16:58

U profile
 
Nice one Neil,
They do it in various sizes and in steel, brass and PVC
George

Kit 275GTB 8th December 2014 20:51

Third thoughts
 
1 Attachment(s)
After an observation by Egdik that the front edge of the side window of the Z3 seemed to be angled back about the same amount as the rear edge of the 275, I realised that I could possibly make a replacement glass (or plastic?) window that would wind up and down. So back to the paper cutouts again.
This time I have moved the rear part of the 275 forwards so that the bottom of the glass meets the Z3 window and cut a new wheel arch further back.
I have made the sill one part with the lower front wing where the gills sit and managed to preserve all four while moving the wheel arch back. The top half of the wing will open with the bonnet like the Z3.
I still haven't quite resolved the door opening.
What do you think?

Kit 275GTB 28th December 2014 15:36

Thank you Santa
 
1 Attachment(s)
Look what Santa brought me! A Z3 Kit car ... and it only took me two hours to build and it's got a wooden steering wheel too.

Egdik 5th January 2015 17:23

Window frames
 
2 Attachment(s)
It is possible to use a Z3 front glass guide reversed as a rear guide - the benefit being that the vertical curvature is the same. Then find a top rail. Here is one welded up in my garage:


Attachment 1904

Also shown is a drawing of a Z3 base, in light blue, with GTB panels. They are to the same scale, but the sill is trimmed to suit and the GTB panels moved slightly, in an effort to give satisfactory proportions. ie the nose is lengthened and the rear overhang reduced. Only 3 front vents and the rear vents are moved forward a touch.

Attachment 1905

Kit 275GTB 6th January 2015 07:43

Window frame
 
That is an interesting approach. I have been playing with two different lines of thought about the window frames.
One is to use stock, straight, U channel with a Lexan window and modify the fibreglass GTB panel at the rear of the door opening to match the slope of the Z3 front edge. It would be better to use channel with the right curvature to match the quarter light. Does anyone know if it is possible to bend U channel?
The second is to keep the standard glass window and make the rear of the door opening match the curve. This has the advantage of keeping the standard window but may change the look too much.

Kit 275GTB 6th January 2015 07:52

Side vents
 
I have been trying to decide whether to keep the 4 engine side vents with reduced panel width each side or reduce the number to three. The 275 nose is very long and there is a greater distance from the wheel arch to the screen so it has to be modified somehow. Any comments are welcome. I am still playing with alternatives but I have not been out in the workshop since before Christmas as I have the crippling cold that is rife around here.

NeilF355 6th January 2015 09:50

This video seems to indicate that you can bend U channel, although he doesn't actually show the bending process in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22PqMv1fQ9w.
As far as the vents go I would stick with the 4 slats and reduce their width a little. Going from 4 to 3 is a lot more obvious than going from full size to slightly narrower in my opinion.


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