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-   -   Geoff's 250 SWB Replica Build (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4261)

zagmad 26th November 2013 20:12

I agree . Topless is the best start. Then build up from their. Also a strip down of a 250 swb door mechanism would be a advantage
starting from a mechanism that pushes the window up and down. Maybe angled slots inside to push it up at an angle. Youtube might have someone dropping a wi down and its action. Then bulid the roof round it.

Scottie22 26th November 2013 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 49046)
And here's the, ahem, perfect donor -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1965-MGB-R...item43c1ce8972

Hey Towed!
I reckon by the time you sandblasted that, you'd have an MGB doily!!

zagmad 26th November 2013 21:02

:fish2: Think that's where the shell comes in. Depends on the chassis. And roll cage. Something technical like that.something to bolt and bond too. Lots of oxidising paint etc,filler.

Scottie22 26th November 2013 23:12

I was only joking really! I take your point about the body shell and roll cage although the MGB has no chassis, it is a monocoque design.

zagmad 26th November 2013 23:34

Convertibles seem quite expensive. Spose doer uppers would be the way forward with the sills being strong enough and all holes welded up or new sheets welded in.

Mister Towed 27th November 2013 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottie22 (Post 49068)
I was only joking really! I take your point about the body shell and roll cage although the MGB has no chassis, it is a monocoque design.

I take it the roadster has additional strengthening in the sills then?

As the MGB GT donor is much cheaper and less desirable in its own right, I'd be quite happy to cut the GT roof back to the right length for the Ferrari, fit a full roll cage and run a 250 swb race replica as an everyday car. It wouldn't need any of the expensive trim, bumpers, badges etc. fitting then either. The added bonus would be a relatively simple upgrade to V8 spec at a later date when funds allow...

Scottie22 27th November 2013 13:17

Mr T. As far as I understand it, the roadster shares the same monocoque floorpan as the MGBGT with no extra strengthening.

I renvovated a MGBGT once, and swore to never do it again!

With a Triumph, what you see is what you get, the MGB is different, the sill construction is extremely strong, due to a third strengthening rail which is called the " castle rail". It runs the length of the sill inside between the outer and inner sill.

It often will rust away badly, weakening the structure, but goes un-noticed.

The only way to check and repair, is to remove the outer sill.
It is very time consuming, messy and awkward to do.

Also, I found all the other welding which is required on a rusty B to be much harder to do than a Triumph.

You have been warned!

Viatron 27th November 2013 13:32

Ditto, done a B and it was not the most pleasant of my car experiences. As Scottie said, lots and lots of hidden nooks and crannies in which rust can lurk, I borrowed a borascope for a mate to check the sills and some other areas and almost scrapped what looked like an ok shell, 3 months later I wished I had!

Mitchelkitman 27th November 2013 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 49074)
I take it the roadster has additional strengthening in the sills then?

As the MGB GT donor is much cheaper and less desirable in its own right, I'd be quite happy to cut the GT roof back to the right length for the Ferrari, fit a full roll cage and run a 250 swb race replica as an everyday car. It wouldn't need any of the expensive trim, bumpers, badges etc. fitting then either. The added bonus would be a relatively simple upgrade to V8 spec at a later date when funds allow...

But wouldn't it need IVA? I know the main structure MAY be the same, but would DVLA allow it. I think chopping the roof would mean IVA. Could always buy a BGT for the parts, and then put a heritage roadster new body on it - or would that be disallowed ? Good question for DVLA though (probably get several answers, and told the only way would be to do it and find out afterwards :laugh:)

Scottie22 27th November 2013 14:26

There is a kit (of parts) on the market to enable MG BGT owners to convert their cars to roadster spec, (as its worth more)
And it does not need an IVA for that.
I would guess at a re-body inspection only.

Viatron put it better than I did, they are a bitch to weld.

Mister Towed 27th November 2013 14:30

Hmm, thanks for the replies, guess I'll keep my eyes on the thread and see how the Z3 version turns out.

Oh, and apologies to Geoff for hijacking your thread to muse about possible classic donors for what's going to be a very nice car indeed. :icon_mrgreen:

casamolino 4th December 2013 17:15

Chris sent me these last night:icon_smile: :icon_smile:


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_4791.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_4790.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_4792.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_4793.jpg

zagmad 4th December 2013 18:08

:pop2: :icon_mrgreen: looking good geoff, only thing i'd say is flow and proportion. rear bumper section mold as the lowest point is probably best point to work from so it has that sleek look of the swb. front end has hardly any over hang at the bottom gonna be a balancing act. cant wait to see it evolve.

neemo 4th December 2013 18:09

this is coming along very nice indeed!
looks like ill be on the hunt for a Z3 2.8 soon.

casamolino 4th December 2013 19:16

Here is a couple more and no I am not having an AC Coupe built , although it could be a very simple! way of building a Cobra , I am sure our leader could be persuaded with copious amounts of the folding stuff , Geoff .

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_4796.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...9/IMG_4795.jpg

neemo 4th December 2013 20:01

ooh thinking of a shelby daytona coupe now !!!

http://usautodaily.com/wp-content/up...9-1024x680.jpg

garyh 4th December 2013 21:17

Just keep checking the photos of the aston martin/ferrari you want to recreate.

The Shadow 4th December 2013 21:35

lookin pretty tasty that is. hats off to you boys. im so impressed with that. it would make a fantastic late model style Cobra / Ferrari , whatisit type coupe. you could trendy it up with later lights and stuff and fit big ferk off ali's to it and people at the yacht club wouldn't have a felching clue what that was. got me thinking now you bad uns.

y cymro 5th December 2013 00:05

That's coming on nicely Geoff. I can't get over how Chris and Dan can make such wonderful cars from nothing. I love the tweaking process it'll go through to make it look right :icon_biggrin:

Steve

Mister Towed 5th December 2013 08:47

Hmm, 289 Cobra rebody on a Z3 6 cylinder donor. Could be tempted...

Tribute Automotive 7th December 2013 17:01

A side window template was scaled up on an overhead projector, remember those from your school days?

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...psbba39981.jpg

This allowed the start of the side window opening to be formed

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2d765bf1.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...ps50f3a524.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...psb789fc3a.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...ps258ebfe3.jpg

An accurate rear window was always going to be a problem, the MGB GT one we are using is an available compromise. Another solution could be to get them formed in Lexan, but cost may be an issue, as would the chrome trim. I will be looking into this issue further.

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...psb69b70f9.jpg

Ollie 7th December 2013 17:39

Mmmmm....
 
Really like the way this one is shaping up....
Please please keep the overhang on the front as minimal as possible....
I'm sure you've done your workings Chris, with the lovely new window shape, are they still going to open ok..?
Looking foreward to the next update pics...
Is it just me, or is Chris's work getting addictive, i check for updates every day...!!

y cymro 7th December 2013 18:10

Superb job lads. This really is coming along nicely. It will be brilliant if you can get the rear screen sorted.

y cymro 7th December 2013 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie (Post 49523)
Looking foreward to the next update pics...
Is it just me, or is Chris's work getting addictive, i check for updates every day...!!

I agree. It's the only thread I check every day.

WorldClassAccident 7th December 2013 18:45

This guy likes his cars (I bought my original Scimitar from him) and he also does custom Lexan screens for boats. He is based in a barn about 300 metres from the Beaulie motor museum. Nice guy Nick runs it and he is always happy to talk, and talk, and talk...

Mitchelkitman 7th December 2013 20:36

For me lexan will ruin it - sorry but only REAL glass will do!

y cymro 7th December 2013 21:30

I'll be fine with polycarb, particularly if it's the only way to achieve the complex curves at a reasonable cost. With a hard coating on the outside and anti fog on the inside it should do a good job.

Mitchelkitman 7th December 2013 21:47

I've been trying for some time to find a catalogue with basic dimensions of glass (like you can with batteries for instance). I know it probably won't help with the rear window - but maybe the side?
Anyway, googling several phrases, I found there is a US and Canada document called NAGS (National Auto Glass Specification) which is published several times a year, and they also do older cars (1990's ). Could be useful? Anyone in the trade in UK know of similar? US/Canada says it has world cars, so may be useful, but of course a UK 'version' would be more easily obtainable/cheaper?
This sort of info could open up all sorts of possibilities!!!

y cymro 7th December 2013 23:22

Chris, I think you've done a better job on those rear wheel arches than Pinninfarina :icon_biggrin:

Mister Towed 8th December 2013 10:17

Can't you just pop into your nearest Ferrari dealer's parts dept and ask the man in the oily overalls with a fag hanging from the corner of his mouth for a rear screen and surround for a 1959 250 GT Berlinetta SWB? Surely they'd have a few in stock. Shouldn't be more than about forty quid and you can always ask if there's a discount for cash. :flypig:

y cymro 8th December 2013 10:48

I thought Euro Car Parts might have had something, especially as they were offering 50% off everything last week.
Will email Ferrari Classische and see how that goes. Perhaps they have a sale on.

y cymro 8th December 2013 11:02

A polycarb rear screen should be fairly easy to fabricate if it has only a simple curve across the width of the car and is straight running down the C pillars. Or would straight pillars look wrong?

Down&Out 8th December 2013 12:32

If this gets dishy wires when its finished as well i shall be entirely sold!

casamolino 8th December 2013 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down&Out (Post 49556)
If this gets dishy wires when its finished as well i shall be entirely sold!

Hi Down&Out my initial plan included buying a set of 15" wires from an early E Type Jag but when the adaptors are fitted to the hubs i decided that the front track would be just to wide! having seen WCA`s car that may in hindsight turn out to be a mistake , saying that i love my Minilites , Geoff .

Ollie 8th December 2013 14:29

Y Cymro, i believe Chris will be using the rear screen and chrome trim from an MGB GT, so it will look "correct" anyway...
Its gonna be nice..

y cymro 8th December 2013 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie (Post 49559)
Y Cymro, i believe Chris will be using the rear screen and chrome trim from an MGB GT, so it will look "correct" anyway...
Its gonna be nice..

I agree that an MGB screen is a good idea as a low cost option. However, to replicate the delicate look of the original car something will need to be done to slim the C pillar. That could be using paint, or better still, moulding a concave swage line in the sloping, vertical face of the pillar, parallel to the horizontal surface.
But lets see where we get to in polycarb first.

y cymro 8th December 2013 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident (Post 49530)
This guy likes his cars (I bought my original Scimitar from him) and he also does custom Lexan screens for boats. He is based in a barn about 300 metres from the Beaulie motor museum. Nice guy Nick runs it and he is always happy to talk, and talk, and talk...

Nick, which guy is this?
Steve

zagmad 8th December 2013 21:36

depnding on the width and depth- austin allegro,alfa romeo 1974 2000 gtv rear window any good a fit. has depth on the side profile even camper van windows have an angled depth from the sides not sure of height or width on these options. just ideas

y cymro 8th December 2013 22:20

Allegro and Alfa are too wide, though both are good suggestions. I already have a plan around the Alfa screen, the curvature of which is too great at the lower edge. The earlier 105 series GT should be a little narrower and I've found a supplier who can provide this off the shelf in polycarb at 190. The curves can be cut to suit providing the resulting overall width is correct. Plan to get dimensions tomorrow, then speak with Chris.
Please keep the suggestions coming.

y cymro 8th December 2013 22:55

Here are the notes made from the rambling thoughts I've had so far:

Original scaled from a diagram - is 970-1000m wide and 525-550mm high
MGB GT rear is 950 wide by 600 high and slightly curved and is probably the best low cost option.
Aston DB5 is about same size as SWB
Gee Whiz electric car front screen is 1000 wide by 650 high. Width tapers from 1000 to 860mm. It is absolutely flat.
Scimitar rear screen is 960mm wide at the top 1160 at bottom 620 high
Front screen Capri?
Rear screen Mini or Sprite front screen upside down?
Opel Manta A rear - best? (added later too narrow)
Austin 1100 rear screen - too long and narrow? - about 52" wide. Car is 60.5".
Ordinary Z3 is 66.5"
2.8 is 70"
250GTO is 63"
Alfa GT step-front rear screen?
Suzuki tiny van front
Mini front upside down
Sunbeam Alpine
Opel Manta Coupe B rear
Vauxhall Firenza rear upside down - could be good
Vauxhall Viva HA front upside down
Mini Mk3 rear screen - too narrow


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