COMING SOON :- Triumph based 50's Special.
 

Although its early days I thought I'd post a pic here to gauge the reaction of like minded enthusiasts to a new product available soon.

The SAMM 10 SPYDER is a Triumph Herald , Vitesse or similar based body conversion to transform your donor vehicle into something resembling the Ferrari's , Lancia's and Maserati's etc. of the 1950's race tracks ...not a replica or direct copy as such , more of a representation of the generic styling of many of these cars from that exciting period ..
Prices and availability to be confirmed but will be available with separate doors and bootlid and a flip style front ... Doors and bootlid can be fixed shut if desired ..


PICTURE OF BODYSHELL BUCK UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AS WORK PROGRESSES

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...ink/samm10.jpg

Given that you're so close, I think you should see if Mark at Southern Triumph Services would be interested in helping with this. No doubt he has numerous possible donors and tons of spares.

Good luck with your new project and belated apologies for not getting back to you about the wheels on the Danish 'D' Type - I had intended to acknowledge your post but it slipped my mind.

Garry

I think "Samm 10" would be a great nick name!

I'VE DEALT WITH MARK SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE HE IS VERY USEFUL ...

The above post was slightly tongue in cheek , but I do have on / off thoughts about producing a new body ..I got lazy and have pidgeon holed it as I was using existing S*mmio bodies to build cars ...if this is now going to be complicated , I need to get the body out of mothballs and continue its development .... A friend of mine who recently retired from the Sunseeker Development and Pattern Making Dept.has been pushing me a bit as he is keen to be involved ..he used to manufacture the original GTD 40 bodies and has done work for various racing teams etc in the past , so its a tragedy not to use his experience ...

The bodyshell was to be called a FORMOSA SPYDER by the way and not a SAMM 10 .. !! ...

I firmly believe that if you could combine the styling from the original Sammio Spyder/Cordite with the build approach of the Tribute A352, you would be onto a winner.

I think that was the plan for the "new" Sammio Spyder/Alpha.

As there is a lot to be said for not dismantling the donor car, if it was already "on the road".
( Obviously, complete nut & bolt restorations are a different story. )

Anything that reduces the build time from years to months has got to be a good idea.

Cheers, Paul. :)

I kind of agree Paul ...I am not sure if that is possible now though because I believe Replica Rides built a S*mmio in that way a while back ..left most of the body inside it ...if the idea has been patented , it might be uncertain ground to be treading upon ...I certainly don't want to be drawn into a huge legal battle .... :-) As you say the 'new' S*mmio / Alpha was being created in the same way , but that little car is a long way off being finished , but may well be copyrighted / patented , under a media block or ban ..so best I shut up ...

Good luck with the new venture LL, been a while since I was last on here and there has been a lot happening regards the sammio name ect.....
Me thinks that if you manage to produce a balanced symmetrical shell with the wheel arches in the correct position then it's a winner, I would of thought that this attention to detail will not add to the end costs and give you a car to be proud of plus an easier build compared to what I ended up with.

Looking forward to following this new venture.

thankyou

Maybe you could call the new model

"The Garrio" ?

yeah ok, maybe not.

Too late I sent a copyright application in for that one this morning!

Quick, some body copyright the name "Larrio"

Formosa has been on my mind for ages now ....its roughly translated from Italian as ''curvy or flowing lined ''

I have been thinking long and hard about this in the last few days and I have some very definite styling ideas that I have been playing with both in my head , sketching and a bit of mocking up ....I have also been collecting some parts over the last few months but feel now is probably the time to make a start ...

I am not wanting to say too much until there is something to say ...but would be very interested to know what the general opinion is regarding headlights styling ?

Do people prefer the earlier 50's style of 7'' round headlights , Cobra stylee ...or the later shrouded headlight styling like the D type and mid to late 50's Ferraris , Maseratis etc ?

Depends on the shape of the nose for me Gary. Sharp noses, like Maserati 150/200/300, Porsche RSK718, Alfa Duetto etc. look best with smaller 5" headlights with fairings, while blunt nosed cars, Ferrari 250GT SWB, Porsche 356, Sammio Spyder etc. look better with 7" round lights.

Sharp -

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psrja9xry1.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...V-07_AI_03.jpg

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psaeacyisx.jpg

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5d7eb3aa.jpg

Blunt -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psccghad6v.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psnu3yd6xy.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...pspbtlyryv.jpg

Agreed Towed ..so , reworded ...sharp or blunt preference ?

How about the Formosa Koppeerite ?

nice looking car - could be very interesting

Gary I always liked your revised Spyder, I remember the "german" fronted original.

But I think the sleeker fared in lights, for the Fermosa.

Like this beautiful Bandini.

https://youtu.be/OVdJjgAc6iI

IMHO sharp - with 5" headlights . Covered in preferably but not altogether necessary.

Is there another donor out there not harvested yet to consider ? So many Japanese cars to choose from

How about a ForMicramosa ?

Dave

yeah I was thinking 'why choose a herald or spitfire' too, as they are all just getting too expensive to get hold of these days

also, (as I'm experiencing with mine) - the handling is not very good on these cars either.

Ahh, can't choose between them as I love both looks.

Car Photographer - what are your handling issues?

The suspension setup makes a big difference to the handling on small chassis Triumphs but they can be made to be really grippy and agile, especially with a lightweight body and low centre of gravity.

On mine I've recently raised the front ride height to leave the lower wishbones parallel with the road surface and that really sharpened up the turn-in and steering feel. I'm also running quite a bit of toe in on the rear wheels and toe out on the fronts, and the car changes direction with real enthusiasm and inspires confidence.

Finally, although it's tempting to fit 'uprated' springs and shocks, my feeling is that they're too hard for road use, and 180lb front springs with standard shocks keep the tyres in contact with the road surface where firmer springs and shocks leave them hopping about and losing grip. The same goes for the back end, standard shocks, a couple of leaves taken out of the rear spring and no lowering blocks give better traction and grip than a lower, firmer setup.

As for more modern donors, they tend to be big, heavy and can't be chopped about without going down the (expensive) IVA route. The resultant cars can look really good - I'm a particular fan of Tribute's 250SWB and the 275 is also taking shape nicely, but they can also look awkward, particularly around the windscreen area. I'd rather use the mechanical components from a modern donor and fit them to a purpose built chassis. At least then you don't have to compromise the design to fit around immovable components. I also have a few reservations about access to some service items and systems on the bond-on body panel type kits that are becoming popular with the pay-someone-else-to-build-it customers.

A good example of where I see what I think is an appropriate use of a modern donor would be this classic 'Mini' that uses the MGF as a base-

http://www.speed3automotive.co.uk/models.aspx

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0fxysbvh.jpg

new model
 

Gary,

you have the opportunity to make something special the photograph shows a great front bonnet and the backend i assume a sammio??. One of my all time cars is a very rare ferrari 625trc only 2 made also the maserati models have great shapes 250/300s. if you can get the rounded back end and the bonnet you have with some vents then the shape will be great.

The mention of the locost type route would be good with a few manufacturers out there. An aries motorsport based chassis would be good as this has the narrow track i.e. escort mk2 but you have both live or independent axle.

A guy in america has also completed an mgb based one which would give period style parts wires and cheap parts.

the manual is available with drawings using all mgb parts.

The triumph donor is fine but pricey and the 6 cylinder models are rarer.

regarding the lights as per the maserati flared in.

as for donor cars, I've long thought that repurposing something like the rather fugly Spartan kit car with a new body might be the way to go. Plenty of them around and cheap as they are so fugly. As long as they are registered correctly then it should make a cheap, no IVA needed donor.

John

Coming soon, the all new...

Spammio Cyder.

Funny how opinions are so different, I'm not a fan of the front end you posted, much prefer the blunt Sammio with flat round lights.... the Porsche speedster with the oval beetle headlights would be my limit..

You always hear about the dreaded 'swing axel' on spitfires, and mine is on such narrow tyres that I'm too scared to take corners at any sort of speed in case I end up in a ditch or worse.
I almost wish I had an identical car to practice on in case anything went wrong,

I do like the idea of taking leaves out of the rear spring though as mine has a very hard ride, presumably because there's less weight in it than on the original spitfire donor,
Is it difficult to do?

I have a mk1 Vitesse chassis under mine so it's on swing axles. With the suspension settings I have I don't suffer any unwanted effects, the car is just too light to trigger the 'tuck under' issues that Beetles, Heralds and pre Swing-spring Spitfires suffered -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ps04raigd7.jpg

The roughly 2" wider track that the wire wheel adaptors give also help stability in corners. Oh, and don't forget that Stirling Moss set a record Mille Miglia time in a Mercedes 300SLR, equipped with swing axles.

As for removing leaves from the rear spring, no, it's not difficult at all. Asuming you don't have a swing-spring at the back (which has a pronounced 'Mexican Hat' shape to the central top cover that clamps the stack to the diff) once you've removed the rear spring all you do is take the nut off the 'peg' that runs down through the centre of the spring stack into a blind hole in the top of the diff and you can just lift off the top three leaves.

Most people then refit the remaining springs and run with that setup. I found that the back end was still a little bouncy for my liking, so I ended up removing one more leaf from the next stack down. They're accessed by undoing the bolts on the two inner clamps (I had to cut mine off), lifting off the next three leaves, removing one of the lower two (the top one is riveted to the clamps) and then refitting the rear spring.

One bit of advice I would give anyone doing this is to Loctite the studs into the diff and use new Nyloc nuts on the top of the studs, otherwise they can work loose, which mine did.

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps75ae0724.jpg

If you get your spring rates, ride height and suspension geometry set right the car should feel light, grippy, agile and very confidence inspiring on the road. Hope that helps.

JG - I often look at Spartans and Pilgrims etc as they are ideal donors and , as you say , often registered appropriatley ...
The first Miglia was a modified S*mmio body on a Spartan chassis ..

Striker .. Bruce Meyers 625 TRC is one of my all time favourite cars and influencing my thought processes along with The Admirals 500 Mondial , another gorgeous car ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C2O_L2SpEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpfJ1b-X7p4

Cheers, maybe mine isn't that bad, but it feels a bit skittish and I think I'm just too scared to risk pushing it too much (I did write my Boxster off last year pushing it a bit too hard) :(

Gary - I hadn't seen that 500 Mondial link before, what a great car and a great story too. :cool:
( I just wish I had some roads like that around here. )

If you can build something that is inspired by those two cars, it should look amazing.

Good luck, Paul. :)

PS
Just picking up your point about using other kit cars as a base…

I've seen a few examples on Rods 'n' Sods, where something like this:

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/d...ject/image.jpg

Has been turned into one of these.

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/d...356ADA632A.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/d...04DFA8CE1D.jpg

Or one of these. :cool:

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...IMG_1281-1.jpg

Gary - I hadn't seen that 500 Mondial link before, what a great car and a great story too.
( I just wish I had some roads like that around here. )

Both those Petrolicious links are very good ...They are very watchable with some great cinematoghraphy .

I have watched them both several times and never tire of them ...

The Victory by Design series keeps me hooked in the same way too ..but because the Petrolicious clips are generally 7 or 8 mins long , I find myself watching them more ...if you look in the right hand column on youtube , you will see other great 'shorts' from the same guys ...this is another one that will appeal to most on here ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttl-kF8Rbuo

Absolutely stunning:faint:....and happens to have a wheelbase and track only a few mm different to a Herald, hmmm, next project maybe?

That skittish feeling is almost certainly down to the springs and/or shocks being too firm.

The revelation for me came in the 80's the first time I drove a humble Peugeot 205GT (five door, 85bhp 1.4, slightly lower ride height than base model) and found that the softer springs with good damping gave it vastly better handling on the Scottish mountain roads than the rock-hard ride of the XR3i I had been driving. The Escort had ploughed on towards the undergrowth a number of times and a friend had recommended that I fit harder springs and firmer shocks to 'kill the understeer'. That was just Pub talk though, and the opposite was in fact true, with the humble 1.4 Pug able to simply drive away from a lot of 'fast' cars of the day on those fabulous twisty driving roads. Ahh, nostalgia.

I'v been down this route and still do but it's a bit unpredictable with DVLA.
If your going to go this way make sure you take photos of the donor before you strip it.
Keep the paper work simple, if DVLA don't ask don't tell them. :nono:

Also check the chassis number most kits from the 80's and even 90's have there own chassis number. This normally mean the donor has it's own chassis ie; Moss.
DVLA pointed out that if the chassis number relates to a registered manufacturer ie; Triumph Spitfire then the chassis should be an original unmodified example regardless of it's history. which I think is wrong but hey it's DVLA after all. :hurt:

I have once got around this problem by asking the local Triumph Owners Club to verify (in writing) the chassis was an "original" item. :eusa_liar:

We'll see ...imagine the bastard love child of the 3 example clips I have posted and we are somewhere handy ...

I think I need to go sharp styling on the front as I have pretty much done blunt faces in this area and don't want any confusion or comparisons marring the project ......

Herald viewed this morning ( local one that has been sat 18 months in a garden ) and returning tomorrow to thrash out a deal !!

Oi! Stop poaching all the Triumphs on my patch!!! ;)

The 625 is a stunning car, i had seen that you tube link many times before, pinched a few ideas off it for my build, the rolled cockpit edge and the metal screen center support. One thing i wish i had made is a clock binical similar to the 625, but hey may be next time.

Gary if you can come up with something similar you have a winner and i may be tempted provided it was symmetrical.

Bloody cheek. The original Sammio Spyder is perfectly symmetrical. Erm, so long as you only look at one side at a time...

I took my son out in mine this afternoon to play mini-golf at Hunstanton, and people just stop, stare, take pictures and pay compliments all the time, but none of them ever comment on the lack of symmetry.

After three and a half years on the road I still can't believe what a jaw-dropping car I was able to build on such a small budget.

Good luck with your pointy nosed project Gary, I'll be watching with interest even if it isn't quite straight when it's finished. :rockon:

As for a non-controversial model name, how about Dreihundert Möwe Flügel? Can't see any other manufacturer taking issue with that. ;)

Gary

I have the answer you are all looking for a G46 based on the old SE5 chassis and running gear!!!!

What sold me the G46 was the picture stuck to Garys workshop wall of the yellow Ferrari, was that a Mondial 500 ?

and the screen saver on my computer is a Ferrari 625 TR with my G46 next to it or should I say "Charmarini or Charmarati" that where my inspiration lies

if I am honest I think the MX5 or even the Z3's are two small for the big car concept. However the sammio on the herald is perfect

That car is a 1956 410 I think , Charman ...another of my favourites

Paul, that 1929 Ford roadster from a Lotus 7 type?? wonderful is it a kit? do you have any info. on it? cheers Mike

Towed, I have a 205 1.4 as a daily driver. You're absolutely correct. Not fast per se, but on the twisting and falling 'A' and 'B' roads that make up my commute, very little comes close. It's not excess or illegal speed, it's not having to slow down for the corners!