Testing the water
 

Although we've been beavering away with the current range, we've also been working towards releasing some new blood for next year. I can't give much away about the actual shape of the cars yet but there's one of them that I feel I'd like to hear some feedback from this forum. It may not be to all your tastes but this one strays away from our usual thinking in that it will require an IVA and is not sourced from a single donor (So may incur a 'Q' Plate).

Working with a well known expert in his field, we are producing a custom Chassis with a wheelbase in excess of 102" so it's big 'un. Body style is a 2 seater (Plus 2 at a push) with options for a full height windscreen allowing a possible soft or hard top (We haven't got that far yet). The chassis will be a ladder style with outriggers and will incorporate MGB front crossmember and suspension with uprated springs. As yet undecided about the rear but potentially from the MGB too as it has a simple leaf spring mounting and the roadster diff is built to take a decent amount of power.

Engine choice is currently the Jaguar XK straight six (Anything from 2.4 to 4.2 Litre) mated to either a manual or Automatic gearbox. (This car wouldn't seem 'wrong' with an auto) and from our development thus far doesn't look like it will be a complicated build. The moulds (which we we already have) are clean, parallel and well finished so it shouldn't take much to put the 'pretty' on.

Reasons for the choice of suspension and engine are that the parts are individually available in good quantity out there in eBay land at a very good price (Engine/Box combos can be found around the £250 - £350 mark and I just bought a full MGB front crossmember with suspension for £31!) Parts are, again, very easily available for refurbishing them and, if anything, cheaper than the Triumph parts.

As more details solidify I'll be posting on this thread. Before anyone asks, I have no idea of price as yet but will be keeping it 'real' in our usual way.

Flood gates are now officially open :biggrin:

To be totally honest, if I'd bought the company I think I'd be concentrating on perfecting the existing product line.

Gary J got the design of the Spyder right, even if the execution was a little frayed around the edges. The shape really works - even the chap who sign-writes classic racing cars for a living thought mine was a restored original Lancia - and the simplicity of the Triumph mechanical components is a bonus to the home builder.

I appreciate that there are those that want to spend more on a track day special with 15,000rpm bike engines and rose jointed suspension, so I'd be looking at developing a space frame chassis to take the Spyder body. That'd give you a product to rival Caterham's finest on the track, but much prettier and at less than half the price.

The key to the success of the Sammio Spyder imho is that it looks like it really was built in the fifties. Unless you're going to put a convincing e-type/D type/C type replica together with the parts you've mentioned above, which probably would sell, ninety nine times out of a hundred 'original' kit car designs just don't hit the spot for me, or for other potential buyers judging by the poor sales and frequent bankruptcies of their creators. :rip:

I wish you luck with your R&D Andy, I just think it would be a good idea to concentrate on your core business first.

In the words of Forrest Gump: That's all I've got to say about that...

Oh, we're not forgetting the original line. The Pilot is due to undergo a rebuild during the winter to remove the 'frayed edges' and there's a nice variant of Navigator in the wings too!
The new car isn't a replica and although I can see the draw of a track car, it's just not 'me' and if nothing else, I want the range to be one that I would want to own myself. If anyone wants to develop a track chassis with a Hayabusa engine they are welcome to do that and I'll sell them the shell.

Andy - First of all, I see your Pilot is in the Aug.13 issue of Kit Car. :cool:
( Which I have bought, but haven't had a chance to read yet. :rolleyes: )

It sounds like your next project is actually pretty far advanced.
My only two concerns would be the IVA test and the Q plate.

IVA - Ideally you would need to put your demonstrator through the test BEFORE you sell any kits to the public.
That way any issues can be ironed out before the kit "goes live".
( Hindsight tells us the Cordite was in no fit state to be launched when it was. :( )

Q Plate - This is the real killer for me as it screams kit car.
Mister Towed will fool a lot people with his "Lancia" as it currently looks.
But the game would be up if his car had a Q plate rather than an "old" reg.

I also share Mr T's concerns about over stretching yourselves.
You are talking about another new product, but what happened to the last one, the Colani GT?
It looked great at the show, is it on the road yet?
The website* just has the pictures of it in black and no details.

I assume you need to sell a few of the current kits to cover their development costs.
I am still looking forward to seeing the first new Navigator build on the road.
As I am convinced that if it really is a quick build, it will be a great success.
But if your "improved" current range take off, will you be able to cope?

Don't get me wrong, I want you you have a great business for many years to come.
But growing too big, too fast, has ended in tears for a large number of companies.

Good Luck, Paul. :)

PS
* Website News Section - "We expect the move to be complete by the first week of February

Hi Paul,

the website is currently going under a 'refit'. The work being done is offline, hence why the website is a little outdated.

Not long before the work is done :biggrin:

AndyP85 - I look forward to seeing the website update, as I think this is a key part of selling these kits.

Just be aware that the new Kit Car article may generate a bit of traffic for the current website.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Indeed :drum: I'm looking forward to reading the article, the day he came was quite enjoyable! :icon_biggrin:

I think it's a good avenue to go down, there are so few kitcars that can be used with the family (even at a push) and there's still no reason with a bit of careful sourcing that you couldn't get a new reg on it. I'm sure you can get new gearboxes etc and with a custom chassis thats a big plus towards getting the fabled new plate.

I've hardly taken my Shelsley out since the kids have come as you can't go anywhere without the little ones.

The quality will be your selling point at a reasonable cost with a swift build time, anything under 300odd hours is a plus in my book

Good luck
Chris

I belive the KIT CAR market can be divided into 3 categories.

1, Replica, such as the Cobra, ect. (flat caps)
2, Track cars, such as the Fisher Fury, Robin Hood ect (crash helmets)
3, Querky Car, such as the Lomax, BRA ect (flying helmet and silk scaff)

The suscess of Andy's present cars is the fact they "bridge" the 3 types perfect.

There as stylish, as quick and as fun as the builder likes :icon_biggrin:

I have all 3 hats so depending on which one I am wearing depends on how I fell and how I drive. :hat: :banplease:

The "Q" reg is a big issue, insurance for one and of course the export market would suffer badly.

What about the Scimitar SE6 that has a 104" wheel base?:icon_smile:

Just a quick thought :icon_biggrin:

If you did use the Scimitar SE6 as a doner ie, used all the major component fitted to your new bispoke chassis you would still need as IVA but you would keep the doner's registration number!!! NO "Q" :party:

And the build would be easier as only one doner would be needed :icon_biggrin:

The complet front supension can be moved forward so only the steering colume and prop shaft would need to be altered to fit the wheel base needed and this could be done on an exchange basis when the kit is collected.

I really should get-a-life :banplease: :banplease:

good luck with this new one ...but i have to be with towed on this one build a top car then builers can have a bench mark too go at ...

err how many Colani's have you sold Andy? maybe best to concentrate on the core business??? Surely your going to be stretched with only 2 of you what with building turnkeys, selling Navigator and Pilot Kits, Selling Colani GT Kits etc etc etc

I think I put 300 hours into mounting my handbrake :madgrin:

I reckon I put about 2,000 hours into my build, a lot of which were spent developing new skills I'd always wanted to try, like welding, spraying and first aid.

I'm glad it took that long though as I can say with hand on heart that I built that car rather than just assembled it.

Each to their own though, I'm sure people that put petrol in their turn-key Caterham feel they've achieved something. :second:

Obviously I gave up counting hours a long time ago! :rolleyes:

But what I would like to see is less hours required for the "standard" / "out of the box" part of the build.

It would be great if it was as straight forward as the "getting started" section of photos looked.

As having to modifying parts supplied with the kit to make them fit becomes very disheartening after a while.

Note: I know this is all being addressed by the on going Ribble kit development. :cool:

There is still plenty of areas that you could spend extra time on to customise your build.

(E.g. "Frenching in" your rear lights rather than bolting them on, etc. )

I think a real selling point would be making it easy to get the basics right.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Hi Andy,

I think the most important thing is having pleasure in what you are doing. It's what started this adventure by Gary. And perhaps loosing the fun is perhaps what ended it for him?

Paul is right. I'm sure the current kits and the business would benefit from quality improvement of the bodies first. And I know too you are working on it. It's amazing how many bodies had to be individually adjusted instead of correcting the mould just once, if you think of it.

Whatever you do, I'm sure the key is to get the right price for your products. It's no use selling the kits very cheap and not making any money. It means that the buyer saves a few pounds in the front and has to spent a multiple after. And you, working your asses of. Not a good deal.
Maybe in the beginning the highlight was to quickly build a good looking car for only a few pounds. It seems to me that the new builders have a different approach.
But then again, maybe you are looking for a different approach yourself aswell?

Michiel

Hi,
I'm new to this forum but have been following it for a while now.
Firstly I want to say that I think that all your cars look great and what really is exciting for me is the fact that they all have great potential for individuality.
I'm not new to kits and have had a Cobra replica and currently own a DNA F430 Spider, which is my pride and joy and cost me a small fortune.
That done, I'm now already looking for my next project and must admit I want a classic 1950s Italian sports car look. So I believe I'm in the right place.
Q plate is most definitely a no go area, especially in this day and age.
These cars are just waiting to be developed and anybody wanting to invest their hard earned cash into a project of this type, will most definitely be put off by this.
More power and a bigger engine are definitely appealing, not just for the power but for the sound that they have. V8, properly tuned V6 or a 12cylinder are appealing to a wide audience. So a kit developed to accommodate such engines as an option could attract more potential interest.
Cost is another option to consider. This needs to cover a wide range of budgets.
Meaning that the kit could be done for a reasonable cost as well as a higher cost relative to individual specifications. Flexibility with kits is what gets the numbers for the manufacturers.
Looking at what is on the market, I believe that an option for a removable roof for some of these kits is a definite must. One of the models, with a few alterations, could get close to looking like a 250SWB if it had a roof. I know for a fact, from like minded enthusiasts, that there is a market for this. In fact I believe somebody is working on one, but on a space frame set up. So it will be costly.
Website. This is a must as it's most peoples first point of call.
Build manual or video, is another suggestion.
Whatever you decide to do, I will be looking and following with great interest and I'm sure we will be talking to each other in the next few months.
Great cars and a great forum.
Rudy.