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-   -   Formosa 120 GR Long Nose build (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6521)

lancelot link 24th October 2017 20:39

Formosa 120 GR Long Nose build
 
I am about to start another build for a customer ...its going to be a slightly different build to the last one ...The donor only arrived this morning , so not a lot to report as of yet , but I have an SE5 rolling chassis and a straight 6 , 3.3 litre Ford engine and manual box sat loosely on top of it ...

https://preview.ibb.co/gA7SFm/IMG_20171024_162132.jpg

Body ordered today and should be with me in a couple of weeks tops ...in the meantime more updates as I fit the engine and repair the chassis etc...

https://preview.ibb.co/gq9M86/IMG_20171024_162111.jpg

Alex 24th October 2017 21:33

Great news Gary, hope it all goes well and I shall follow with great interest

redratbike 24th October 2017 21:51

Be nice to see one with the extended bonnet

lancelot link 25th October 2017 21:08

Managed to get the engine positioned and mounted today ...I wanted to get it as low as possible without compromising the propshaft angle and its a bit of a lump , but thankfully , the gearbox isn't any bigger than a Type 9 unit , so she fitted in very nicely .....
I cut the stock Ford engine mounts down and made boxes out of them , bracing the chassis at the same time as well ...

https://preview.ibb.co/irSF1R/IMG_20171025_191223.jpg

She sits just behind the front wheels , weight wise , which is good and the column change box has a remote floor mount conversion which can go in a variety of places .....so happy days ..so far ...

Mick O'Malley 26th October 2017 07:20

Love That Lump
 
3300cc! It's a beast. Looking forward big time to updates on this.

Regards, Mick

Barber 26th October 2017 14:14

Good luck Gary, this is one corner of the internet where there be pirates and dragons.

Jaguartvr 26th October 2017 16:50

That's more like it 3.3L.
I always thought the BMW straight six 2.5, 2.8 and 3.3 would make great donor engines but the electrics could cause a big stumbling block.
Would be nice if someone did a complete 2nd hand engine & gearbox combo with all electrics for kit projects.

lancelot link 27th October 2017 21:38

BIT MORE PROGRESS TODAY , The photos won't download at the moment , so will add later ...but basically some general repair work , replacing the front outriggers and outer rail ...I have fitted fully boxed sections to the repaired areas for added strength and rigidity ...the Scimitar shares the same design weaknesses as the Triumph Herald and Vitesse in as much as channel sections on the ends of the outriggers are weak in their standard format and rely very much on the bodyshell for strength ...the S*mmio and Cordite frames were designed to brace this as well as other strengthening properties , The Miglia frame kind of does the same but not as well ...The Formosa framework more than makes up for the removal of the bodyshell , but boxing the open channel sections is permitted within acceptable chassis modificationss by DVLA without compromising the 8 point rule , so if it needs repairing , its sensible to do the mod....

I have had a couple of people ask me about the customer ...I have 2 builds going on at present , a modified Miglia and this Formosa ...both customers are keen to remain anonymous for differing reasons .....My Miglia guy doesn't want any pics or info on his build on the internet ( don't know why ..) ...but the Formosa guy ( Eric ) is ok with my documenting the build . I have known Eric for over 20 years , an old friend who goes back to my previous life as a Hot Rod builder and parts supplier ...He has a Hot Rod attitude towards the build , which is great for me and the car will eventually reside in France but remain RHD on English registration as he is a regular visitor back to the UK ...

Also , before I forget , I fitted the Wire wheel adaptors that turned up today and a set of 15'' wires from stock until Eric's wheels arrive ...this addition in place of the stock wheels has reduced the overall track width by 2'' front and rear , which, in this build , is good news ...

Mister Towed 28th October 2017 08:41

That's the opposite of a Herald or Spitfire based build then, as fitting the wire wheel adaptors and MGB wires on the Triumph chassis' increases the track by "2.

Nice to see that you've got regular commission work coming in, Gary, and the last car you finished was a real credit to you. I suspect your happy customers will spread the word and help to keep the turn-key orders trickling in at a manageable but profitable rate. Keep up the good work!

lancelot link 28th October 2017 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 91383)
That's the opposite of a Herald or Spitfire based build then, as fitting the wire wheel adaptors and MGB wires on the Triumph chassis' increases the track by "2.

YES , YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT ...My overall track measurement is based on the total width , like the American measurement , they measure total width as track ...the Triumph's have skinny steels and addind an adaptor and early non dished wire , does increase the track by 2'' , the Scimitar has a wide dished wheel , so adding an adaptor and skinny wire is less than the total width of the dished wheel.....
This is exactly what I needed for this car to avoid too many body 'tweaks' ...

scimjim 28th October 2017 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr (Post 91367)
That's more like it 3.3L.
I always thought the BMW straight six 2.5, 2.8 and 3.3 would make great donor engines but the electrics could cause a big stumbling block.
Would be nice if someone did a complete 2nd hand engine & gearbox combo with all electrics for kit projects.

I have a 73 SE5a with BMW/Omega straight six 2.5 diesel turbo - the electrics are the easy bit :icon_wink:

Jaguartvr 28th October 2017 16:44

It's setting up the ECU that frightens me. Give me a set of points and some carbs any day.
Do you know of any info on the great interweb that could be of help?

scimjim 28th October 2017 21:56

my Car uses the original ecu (with chip) - no setting up, just feed it volts as required :)

Mister Towed 29th October 2017 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by scimjim (Post 91395)
my Car uses the original ecu (with chip) - no setting up, just feed it volts as required :)

That's exactly what I intend to do with my Ford Puma (front) engined 356 Outlaw race car.

I'm planning to use the Puma's key, ECU and full wiring loom, so I can't really see why it wouldn't just work.

The only potential issue I have come across during my Google research is the speed sensor/torque limiter in the gearbox, which apparently does influence the fuelling at high revs and can cause stalling on the overrun if it's disconnected (thanks to the Fiesta 1.7 conversion boy-racer crowd for that snippet).

I'm hoping that it's possible to either transfer the speed sensor across to the RX8 gearbox (could it even be the same sensor in the Mazda 'box already?) or attach its receiver to a rotating part that turns at about the right rate with the sensor on a fabricated mount.

A last resort plan is to use an electric motor governed by a variable rheostat to match the vehicle speed, but that's starting to get a bit too complicated for my liking.

As for instruments, the plan is to rehouse the Puma's electronic gubbins in old Triumph gauge pods with Porsche style graphics on their faces. It's been done over on the Tribute forum using BMW gauges so it should be possible.

Anyone on here got experience of fitting a 1.7 Puma engine, ECU and loom into a RWD car? Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. :)

Sorry for the thread hijack, Gary, I'll start a thread of my own shortly. :nerd:

lancelot link 29th October 2017 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 91397)
Sorry for the thread hijack, Gary, I'll start a thread of my own shortly. :nerd:

Not a problem , I'm happy to 'bench race' with everybody on anything that's relevant to our hobby/industry....

I wish I could comment , but the electrickery side of modern engines is all a bit klingon to me ....

scimjim 29th October 2017 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 91397)
I'm hoping that it's possible to either transfer the speed sensor across to the RX8 gearbox (could it even be the same sensor in the Mazda 'box already?) or attach its receiver to a rotating part that turns at about the right rate with the sensor on a fabricated mount.

the RX8 box doesn't have a speed sensor - it has a neutral switch (don't ask, it's a Japanese thing :icon_surprised:) and reverse switch - speed is taken from a wheel sensor. simplest will be a pickup on the prop or diff output.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...pse66c34be.jpg

Mister Towed 30th October 2017 07:15

Thanks Scimjim, very useful information.

Once I start stripping down my Puma donor I'll take a look inside the gearbox and see what type of trigger is in there. Hoping it'll just be a simple matter of mounting it on something that rotates at about the same rate as when it's fitted to the Puma.

Don't really want to delete it as the Puma/Fiesta go-faster crowd report that it causes fuel starvation at high revs and stalling on the overrun, but they mostly seem to be happy with that to lose the torque limiter in first gear. that allows them to smoke the front tyres as they launch away from the traffic lights outside Sainsburys. And stall as they slow down for the next set...

lancelot link 31st October 2017 20:11

Managed to get a bit more done today ... not terribly photogenic but its all progress ...

The outrigger and perimeter rail fixes are done , I used box as stated earlier , and capped the fronts to avoid any water or muck getting in the ends from the wheels . I then drilled and tapped the box to accept 8mm bolts and welded 8mm washer faced nuts into the original , thinner rails at the rear , middle , approx. bulkhead line and front so that I could begin to work out and construct the inner space frame augmentation ....

I'm tackling this frame differently to the current Triumph example , the characteristics of the Scimitar chassis lend themselves to a slightly different approach .....I'm using 50x50x3 angle iron cladding the perimeter rails and main chassis rails following the same line as the originals and are tied together with another piece of angle steel across the rear of the seat area. This is all fixed with the 8mm fixings I mentioned just now ...from this base I will build up the tubular frame in the same style as previously ...


https://preview.ibb.co/g2pDCb/20171031_162602.jpg

T

scimjim 31st October 2017 20:56

Twin front ARB? Is there a rear ARB too?

lancelot link 31st October 2017 21:57

Yes , doubled up ARB ...don't think there is one on the rear , will check tomorrow ...Its got the wrong steering rack too ..but that's going to be amended back to stock when one turns up at the workshop


I haven't forgotten the info you asked for mate ..Eric hasn't given it to me yet ...


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