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-   -   Miglia for sale !! (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6605)

rochdaleGT 3rd August 2018 14:05

there is 1 car sold totally overpriced aborad and now the community thinks to replicate this again by advertizing their cars for a high price.


you need to keep in mind: its still a triumph spitfire, with all its pro´s and con´s...nothing quick, nothing track orientated, rear suspension a bit "vague" , the "kit" supplier has no real historic related history....there is no historic value at all with those cars.....so why should i pay so much money?

at the end of the day, to be honest, those kits only exist to "bypass" IVA test.....to make it a cheap kit for the homebuilder to overcome latest registration-laws.

this said: the body-shape and design is great.....such a body on a spaceframe chassis (aka Locost) with the typcal seven-ish live-axle or even an IRS, in combination with a well tuned x/flow engine (for the oldschool guys) or a zetec-engine (for the modern guys) would be a great thing.

unfortunately such a car would need to pass IVA

oxford1360 3rd August 2018 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96261)
unfortunately such a car would need to pass IVA

Enjoyed your positive contribution as always, but like most of your previous posts, you are wrong. You are nothing but consistent.

If you followed this forum with any rigour, you would know that someone on here has taken a correctly registered Locost that has passed IVA, and rebodied it perfectly legally. Bad luck, mate.

Everyone on this forum understands that it is a stressful time for you and we are all hoping that you get the GCSE results that you deserve. Just think, another couple of years and you will be allowed to drink in a pub.

Lucky@LeMans 3rd August 2018 23:00

The rebody scene will continue to do well thanks to the understanding of the powers that be making allowances for such conversions. A rebody of an existing car that is correctly registered, Mot'd etc is a completely different concept to a traditional, home built, from the ground up kit car that has to be checked over for compliance at an IVA test. A rebody can be fitted to a regular production car or to an existing kit car if such a kit is available for you. As long as the kit is correctly registered the same rules apply.

Paul L 4th August 2018 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96261)
why should i pay so much money?

Why should anyone take the time and trouble to reply to you at all?

As you have ignored those who pointed out the flaws in the logic of your last post (1st July).

Namely, given how auctions work, at least two people thought it was worth a lot more than the guide price.

Note: I have no inside knowledge as to whether the other/losing bidder was local, UK based, or overseas.

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But in the spirit of good will…

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96261)
why should i pay so much money?

Simply put, if you wanted to buy that car, in that auction, on that day, then that was the price it took to buy it.

The good news is that you are not forced to buy any car at any time.

So feel free to wait for what that you consider to be the ‘right’ car to turn up at the “right’ price.

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However, if you really do not like this style of car, why do you actually care what they sell for?

There are lots of things for sale that I am not interested in, selling for more money than I would pay.

But I wouldn’t join a forum associated with these things just to point out I think they are overpriced?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96261)
… at the end of the day, to be honest, those kits only exist to "bypass" IVA test...

If this is what you actually think, then it is no wonder that you don’t understand the market.

These kits exist to provide a chance to drive something special for a faction of the price of an ‘original’.

The fact that these kits follow the letter of the UK law and therefore don’t require IVA is a bonus.

They don’t exist to bypass IVA, as you can’t bypass something you are not required to do in the first place.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96261)
… there is 1 car sold totally overpriced abroad…

Don’t forget that Mister Towed sold his Herald based Sammio Spyder, in the UK, for over £18,500.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psz823kw15.jpg

Apparently, this is just a fraction of the new owner’s car collection, clearly worth a significant sum of money.

I’m sure he wasn’t forced to buy the car, therefore he paid what he thought was a fair price, for a unique car.

So why should your opinion on these cars’ value count for more that this car collector’s opinion?

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I still have a last few “To Do” list jobs on my car (e.g. add alloy panels to the cockpit interior).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pu...F=w648-h863-no

Yet my insurance company have just allowed an agreed value of £15,000 based on its condition today.

My insurance company caters for the specialist car market and knows the difference between fair and overpriced valuations.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96261)
…there is no historic value at all with those cars…

The whole point is that your car looks like it has historic value.

How much do you think this guy thought my car was actually worth?

https://youtu.be/eLS-QQwL5ss

Now, you could point out that the Black Taxi ahead of me was worth more money than my car.

And you would be both factually correct and completely missing the point at the same time.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 4th August 2018 07:53

Can't help but chip in to agree with Oxford, Lucky and Paul. Why is anything worth anything more than the cost of its basic materials?

I mean, why would anybody in their right mind pay thirty five million pounds for an 'average' house in Kensington Palace Gardens, West London, when the cost of materials and labour to build even the most impressive house in the street would be unlikely to exceed £500k?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a7978451.html

And you must be insane to pay $450,000,000 (yes, four hundred and fifty million U.S. dollars) for an old painting of a long dead religious leader (who appears to be sponsored by Camelot, 'it could be you...'), when Leonardo reused an old canvas he'd had kicking around his studio for years and spent about five Soldinos (tuppence ha'penny) on paint.

https://edition.cnn.com/style/articl...vre/index.html

Then back to rebody/homages/Tributes/copies of classic cars. The Lynx D Type is a rebody that uses an E Type Jag as a donor.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/th...onal-dream-car

Okay, it's a high quality recreation and E Types are valuable classics in their own right, but I'm pretty sure Lynx don't use concourse quality cars as donors, but worn out and unloved examples in need of refurbishment and a new lease of life.

So that means that Lynx are in exactly the same category as those of us who have built Sammios, Miglias, Tributes, etc. out of old Spitfires, Heralds, Vitesses, MX5's and Z3's.

And the prices that Lynx D Types and XKSS's achieve at auction or by private treaty?

Well, in 2010 a Lynx XKSS sold for £43,000 and that was thought by some to be a lot of money for a recreation.

In 2016 one of their D Types sold for £157,500 and that was thought by some to be a lot of money for a recreation.

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1...d-type-by-lynx

And today? Well, last month there was a Lynx D Type advertised in the back of Octane magazine for £330,000. Rochdale, I guess you think that's an awful lot of money for a rebody. I'm pretty sure there are people out there with deeper pockets than you (or I) who disagree and it will find a buyer at that price.

These cars, even our rebodies on humble old Triumphs, Mazdas and American built BMW's, are desirable cars in their own right. They bring joy to their builders, those who subsequently drive them and those who see them drive past.

The cash value people put on that depends on their bank balance, but there's no shortage of people who have the funds to buy a car that makes them smile but don't have the skills or time to build one themselves.

My car (the silver Spyder above) sold within a month of advertising it.

I initially turned down offers of £17k and £18.5k from a UK buyer. I turned down 20,000 Euros from two different European classic car dealers, who were both still negotiating with me when I was offered the asking price less the cost of a transporter to deliver it to one of the buyer's classic storage facilities.

Which means these cars are both desirable and will cost what you consider an awful lot of money to buy one.

So, Rochdale, how about you start a build of your own and show us what you think a decent home built kit car looks like?

Barber 4th August 2018 08:22

Markets
 
There are tens of thousands of people around the world who buy, store and sell gold coins. Some do it for the bullion value, others see other values such as mint condition, complete sets, rare coins.

The collector who only sees bullion value would not pay much more than £193 for a gold sovereign, and there are plenty of coins of suitable condition. Those who want to have only pristine coins will pay up to £237 for what is essentially the same bullion value. Neither groups of buyers are wrong, or deluded.

The cost of building one of the triumph based re-bodies to a good standard probably totals about the same as it would to restore the original car to a very good standard. In the market place however, one is a "special" and the other is just another good example of relatively plentiful models.Different collectors or buyers will have their own criteria of what they are seeking, and what they find attractive.

The essence of these points have been stated and re-stated plenty of times, but there is only one person who does not seem able, or refuses to see the validity of the arguments that are supported by real world examples. This would suggest that RochdaleGT is either an ignoramus or a troll, or both. My recommendation is that they research this link, then follow the instructions.
https://www.someecards.com/usercards...wMDk1ZmM4OTcw/

Mister Towed 4th August 2018 11:05

Just checked the ad in Octane and the Lynx D Type is actually advertised for 'only' £295,000 so £35k less than I thought (website says POA). That's about an 80% mark-up over a fully restored E Type they also have at £160,000 with the only real difference between them being the rebody.

http://ckl.co.uk/car-sales/

Should also have mentioned that only an offer within a few hundred pounds of the asking price was going to make me part with my Spyder as I would rather have kept enjoying it than given it away for less than its true value.

I also gave the new owner a written, no-strings guarantee that he could return the car to me in the same condition within one month of taking ownership and I would pay him back the full price received, I was genuinely that sad to see it go -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psgjsrhd0y.jpg

So, Rochdale, I'm not going to enter into a slag-fest, but I would like to see what you can build as this is a forum for dedicated build it yourself 'special' car nuts, not trolls who just want to criticise others' proud achievements.

Mick O'Malley 4th August 2018 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 96281)
So, Rochdale, I'm not going to enter into a slag-fest, but I would like to see what you can build as this is a forum for dedicated build it yourself 'special' car nuts, not trolls who just want to criticise others' proud achievements.

+1

Regards, Mick

Onlinesys 5th August 2018 01:30

Sorry to create a lot of noise over here but I guess it’s still a good thing at the end of the day where lads could express their own point of view. We only live once so just feel free to enjoy whatever we think is worthwhile. Brought the car out with another kit car and all the chaps were happy. No one even bother other normal vehicles like GT3 Touring manual, GT3RS, GT3 manual, Merc SLS. ������

Onlinesys 5th August 2018 01:34

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlinesys (Post 96292)
Sorry to create a lot of noise over here but I guess it’s still a good thing at the end of the day where lads could express their own point of view. We only live once so just feel free to enjoy whatever we think is worthwhile. Brought the car out with another kit car and all the chaps were happy. No one even bother other normal vehicles like GT3 Touring manual, GT3RS, GT3 manual, Merc SLS. ������

Some photos attached

Barber 5th August 2018 13:37

Nice cars. I agree about expressing points of view, so long as the opinion is genuine and informed. Genuine questions are ok too.

Paul L 5th August 2018 14:23

Your car looks right at home. :cool:

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...4&d=1533432765

Take care, Paul. :)

Onlinesys 5th August 2018 14:34

5 Attachment(s)
Thanks Paul.

scimjim 5th August 2018 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxford1360 (Post 96263)
Enjoyed your positive contribution as always, but like most of your previous posts, you are wrong. You are nothing but consistent.

If you followed this forum with any rigour, you would know that someone on here has taken a correctly registered Locost that has passed IVA, and rebodied it perfectly legally. Bad luck, mate.

Everyone on this forum understands that it is a stressful time for you and we are all hoping that you get the GCSE results that you deserve. Just think, another couple of years and you will be allowed to drink in a pub.

Best

Post

Ever

:first:

davecymru 25th August 2018 17:11

Typical bad luck on my part, i wait for ages dithering if i want to sell my car or not, knowing that these come up once in a blue moon and what happens, someone else decides to sell their Miglia as well! :)

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Mig...item1a5c608298

Although after reading the description some of my friends said that they seem to be having a dig at me.
And possibly also accuse me of bad sportsmanship?

If they are, then i want them to know that i wish them nothing but the best in selling their car and i would certainly never try and impact another builder's chances of selling.

jayporter 25th August 2018 21:02

Dave, the comment certainly wasn’t aimed at you as yours is a well finished car and we wish you all the best with yours too, it was aimed at whichever soft lad reported us to and had us thrown off eBay twice for putting “not ferrari” in the header!! Apparently you can’t put not Ferrari if it’s not a Ferrari yet there are loads on eBay and it’s really annoying when they throw your ad off. Tried to sell it 18 months ago and they threw it off so thought let’s enjoy it for a bit, then when we advertised it again they did the same, so this time being careful not to mention it at all! Hadn’t even noticed yours until after we’d relisted ours and then a friend pointed yours out and I thought the same as you “typical”! Anyway apologies if it looked like it was aimed at you but it wasn’t and i’d Love to know who did stick their beak in!!

davecymru 25th August 2018 21:19

Cheers matey, i didnt realise it was yours! (Ive not been on the forum for a while due to work)

Im aware of the whole ebay/Ferrari debacle from when i played with the Lambos as its been going on for years!

Aparently ebay are VERY sensitive to any non-ferraris who use the F word in their ad or even show pictures of a non-Ferrari with a Ferrari badge showing, which is why a lot of the mr2 rebodies have to photoshop out their prancing horses or ebay just shut them down.

Anyhow best of luck with the sale, im sure you'll get a good price for its as its got some really good touches on it.

Mitchelkitman 25th August 2018 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 96522)
Cheers matey, i didnt realise it was yours! (Ive not been on the forum for a while due to work)

Im aware of the whole ebay/Ferrari debacle from when i played with the Lambos as its been going on for years!

Aparently ebay are VERY sensitive to any non-ferraris who use the F word in their ad or even show pictures of a non-Ferrari with a Ferrari badge showing, which is why a lot of the mr2 rebodies have to photoshop out their prancing horses or ebay just shut them down.

Anyhow best of luck with the sale, im sure you'll get a good price for its as its got some really good touches on it.

That's interesting, as Ebay seem to turn a blind eye to all the classic car V5's for sale, which are a)illegal, as they are DVLA property and b)An easy way for 'ringers' (either rebuilds or stolen vehicles) to be 'legitimised' - There is a huge thread about these on Pistonheads.
A couple of years ago I advertised a bicycle part as "will fit Raleigh, Sunbeam, etc" like folk would advertise headlights as "will fit MG, Landrover etc" and my advert was deleted. Ebay is nothing but inconsistent with its rules!

rochdaleGT 28th August 2018 07:46

https://www.ebay.de/itm/SAMMIO-SPYDE...p2047675.l2557

auction ended with reserve not met....but a slight indicator how much people are willing to pay when there isnt anybody pushing the bids (shill bidding) or using any other "tools" for pushnig the price.

oxford1360 28th August 2018 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96543)
https://www.ebay.de/itm/SAMMIO-SPYDE...p2047675.l2557

auction ended with reserve not met....but a slight indicator how much people are willing to pay when there isnt anybody pushing the bids (shill bidding) or using any other "tools" for pushnig the price.

Massive yawn.

Marc F 28th August 2018 15:55

I think these prices stand up well - in terms of £per smile. But it is a buyer's market so anyone is free to bid or not bid.

Of course, eBay made the whole bid process more secretive, so it is hard to identify shilling nowadays, but at the end of the day one should bid what one wants to pay, no more, and then win or lose.

micky1mo 28th August 2018 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 96543)
https://www.ebay.de/itm/SAMMIO-SPYDE...p2047675.l2557

auction ended with reserve not met....but a slight indicator how much people are willing to pay when there isnt anybody pushing the bids (shill bidding) or using any other "tools" for pushnig the price.

Thats correct, 3147 hits 278 watchers , which is a personal best !!
Followed by several offers at auction end, which seams to be normal in these cases.
I have now sold the car to a French classic car dealer for a lot more than the reserve and I have no doubt he will sell it on to a customer for a even bigger return on his investment. After all that's what car dealers do !!!:icon_rolleyes:

But I agree with oxford1360 another massive yawn. :cry:

Marc F 29th August 2018 11:37

Good news re your sale - I was surprised at it not going on eBay - was it just on the German site?

Anyway, nice to see the sales happening for you guys.

micky1mo 30th August 2018 07:46

Marc F I think it was on E-Bay world wide as one of the bidders was based in Mexico :icon_biggrin:

Marc F 30th August 2018 07:48

Would so love to have seen photos of one of our cars in Mexico!!!!

davecymru 31st August 2018 10:23

JayPorters car seems to be attracting a lot of attention (must be all of the shill bidding? <- JOKE! :icon_twisted: )

There seem to be a few interested bidders and hopefully as I've listed my car for what i want for it, that should make the bidders of Jay's realise what a bargain they are getting and bid more? (Fingers crossed for you matey!)


With that in mind, i have finally relented as i never felt totally comfortable with my original advert text. Yes, i know the theory and how to market these cars has been discussed on here at length, but that advert simply wasn't me and so i have reworded mine to an ad i am now comfortable with.

I accept that others may have stuck it out and done it differently, and i totally respect you for that, and whether this affects me positively or negatively i don't know, i just know that i am happier having conversations with people based on what it's listed for now.

Fingers crossed!

Marc F 31st August 2018 11:15

Sorry Dave - I hadn't realised yours was up - where is the ad?

I take that back. I have now managed to find it (my eBay search skills as rubbish as usual).

Yep, your pricing seems fair tome for a unique, well built (by hand) specialist niche car. Your build thread shows the attention to detail you put into it, so I wish you well. Sadly, out of my reach, but that doesn't make it the wrong price for your car, as even if I cannot afford it, it doesn't mean I cannot appreciate it.

Sadly, I think the detractors don't understand how much actually gets spent on these cars - donor, parts, paint etc, let alone the man hours. Perhaps if they tried to build one (as I am doing) they would have a more realistic sense of what they are "worth".

All the best - can't wait to see what you build next. Don't forget to announce it here please

Marc

davecymru 6th September 2018 09:17

<BIG Sigh>

Well despite being live for a few week and having worded my advert VERY carefully as i was aware of the Ferrari ad issues, it seems that i too have fallen foul of e-bay's paranoia police by stating that i was inspired by the racing Maserati's and Lancia's of the 1950.

.... um ..... i was!
And i made no claim to the vehicle being a replica of either!

But the rules is the rules, so i've had to rewrite my advert and the new one is now up:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302872635595

<fingers crossed>

Marc F 6th September 2018 10:21

Do they charge you each time you relist, or do you get a free pass if they don't like the first ad? But what happens to people who want to sell an actual replica - like a Cobra. How can you advertise that? EbAY - go figure.

Anyway, good luck again. From what I gather, the big £'s are obtained from overseas buyers - us Brits are skinflints...

Mitchelkitman 6th September 2018 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 96665)
<BIG Sigh>

Well despite being live for a few week and having worded my advert VERY carefully as i was aware of the Ferrari ad issues, it seems that i too have fallen foul of e-bay's paranoia police by stating that i was inspired by the racing Maserati's and Lancia's of the 1950.

.... um ..... i was!
And i made no claim to the vehicle being a replica of either!

But the rules is the rules, so i've had to rewrite my advert and the new one is now up:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302872635595

<fingers crossed>

Crazy....that they should quote the rules (when you haven't claimed it was one of the cars) yet they allow V5 documents (property of DVLA) to be openly advertised, and despite complaints Ebay won't remove them.

Marc F 6th September 2018 15:25

Having read their rules all I can see is if one were to stick a Ferrari badge on it. Did they give any guidance as to why "inspired by" was not acceptable?

And yep. just checked. Loads of Cobra kits on sale, most with the AC badge

Check out this one - it actually proudly declares its status as an authentic replica, that was produced in limited numbers before Shelby threatened legal action.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1957-AC-C...MAAOSwG9Zbf1Z4

"This BRA 427 7.0 FORD V8 is one of the rarest Cobra replicas out there.Only 38 were produced thirty years ago before Shelby threatened BRA with legal action due to the 427's similarity to the real thing "


What am I missing here? Or is it about if someone complains?

Mick O'Malley 7th September 2018 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 96665)
I too have fallen foul of ebay's paranoia police by stating that I was inspired by the racing Maseratis and Lancias of the 1950s.

.... um ..... I was!

I simply don't understand the inconsistency. When I sold my pre-lit Westfield I described it as a 'Lotus Seven Evocation', likewise my A352: a 'D-Type Jaguar Evocation'. Both are current vehicle manufacturers who doubtless have intellectual property rights lawyers. Perhaps some see imitation as the sincerest form of flattery, or maybe ebay hasn't got through its list yet?

Anyway, good luck with the sale Dave :)

Regards, Mick

micky1mo 7th September 2018 12:18

Spotted this for sale at Beaulieu.

https://i.imgur.com/w5Iwhcgh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qFbZnpPl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dRUtNoql.jpg

Priced at 14,500 Euro.
Any one know it!!:icon_cool:

Marc F 7th September 2018 13:07

Very nice.

lancelot link 7th September 2018 19:12

A car that Mike at Miglia started for the German customer he built the first Miglia for ...Mike never completed it and refunded the German guy selling the car to a local guy in Swanage ...he did very little and sold it to Bisto34's German customer who employed Dave ( Bisto34 ) to finish the car for him .....

Lucky@LeMans 7th September 2018 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick O'Malley (Post 96677)
I simply don't understand the inconsistency. When I sold my pre-lit Westfield I described it as a 'Lotus Seven Evocation', likewise my A352: a 'D-Type Jaguar Evocation'. Both are current vehicle manufacturers who doubtless have intellectual property rights lawyers. Perhaps some see imitation as the sincerest form of flattery, or maybe ebay hasn't got through its list yet?

Anyway, good luck with the sale Dave :)

Regards, Mick

A work colleague built a Tribute Kobra a few years ago then sold it , eventually, through ebay. His ad was removed because someone in the Cobra Club made a complaint about his listing describing it as a Cobra replica. At the time there were several Cobra kits listed, as replica's, so my colleague asked ebay to remove them all, but they wouldn't !! Apparently his Kobra wasn't accurate enough to be described as a replica, according to the Cobra Club complainant !!
So there are some double standards going on here, or what ??

Jaguartvr 7th September 2018 21:39

If it is shown on the V5 as a Cobra I don't think they could complain, if it is shown as a Kobra then it would have to be listed as a Kobra, 99% of buyers searching for a Cobra would miss it. Don't register it with a misspelt name.

Lucky@LeMans 7th September 2018 22:23

His Kobra was registered as a BMW Kobra on the V5. None of the Cobra replica kits past and present will be called a Cobra by their manufacturers. However, they are all Cobra replica's, that is exactly what they are.

davecymru 9th September 2018 17:08

I really HATE selling cars! Im not a salesman and i dont have the inclination towards sales.

So while ive had some lovely messages and some very interesting offers (including one for a stunning Jag that i was very tempted to accept) ive also had some very negative messages and it makes me wonder why they even make the effort just to tell me how stupid/deluded i am.

So i think that im going to give it a few more days and if it doesnt sell or i dont get a realistic offer them im going to pull it.

If anyone can recommend any companies that can sell cars on the owners behalf then please ley me know as i very nearly told the last ..... where he could stick his negative and factually incorrect message.

Lucky@LeMans 9th September 2018 18:16

Try a free ad on Classic & Sports Car. A better audience all round.


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