Madabout Kitcars Forum

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-   Miglia Builds and discussion (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Miglia for sale !! (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6605)

Jaguartvr 9th September 2018 18:43

Just ignore the idiots and don't reply, it really upsets them.
You've paid for the advert so don't let the idiots win.

Mister Towed 10th September 2018 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr (Post 96742)
Just ignore the idiots and don't reply, it really upsets them.
You've paid for the advert so don't let the idiots win.

Ditto. Don't feed trolls and don't worry about their twisted opinions. Your car deserves to achieve a good price and there's a serious buyer out there who'll recognise that. Put it up as a classified ad and hold out for a good price - you've got nothing to lose by being patient.

jayporter 10th September 2018 14:14

I wouldn't let the clowns get you down Dave, like you say "why do they bother"! We didn't get the reserve we wanted on Ebay but the Ad led to some nice interest from the continent and very similarly to micky1mo we've just waved her off to a french classic car dealer from Dumont just outside Paris for more than the reserve on Ebay, which is nice! Im sure at some point the right person will be in touch for a deal your both happy with! Cheers

Lucky@LeMans 10th September 2018 20:21

Just been looking at the results from the Goodwood Revival auction that is posted on MSN at the moment. Many hand crafted cars amongst them and hardly any sold for less than £200k ! Your car might only have humble origins but so has the DNA 250 California which is listed on ebay at the moment for £99,991 !!

lancelot link 10th September 2018 21:04

As the general opinion tends to be Dave ...hang in there ... The car is worth the money ...
The market is buoyant ..people are making money on classic recreations ... exactly why I have changed my approach ...tired of working hard to save people money and being shafted in the process ... I haven't seen your car in the flesh but a very similar example sold for far more at Auction ..as you know ...so look at alternative marketing , maybe ? but don't fold and allow somebody else to profit from your hard work ...

Barber 11th September 2018 08:56

In any market, there are a limited number of people prepared to pay the top prices, that is how auctions work. It may be that recent sales have satiated the market. Unless there are other pressing reasons, why not wait until spring and go again?

lancelot link 11th September 2018 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barber (Post 96756)
In any market, there are a limited number of people prepared to pay the top prices, that is how auctions work. It may be that recent sales have satiated the market. Unless there are other pressing reasons, why not wait until spring and go again?

Prices may be levelling a bit ..there may be something in that ... The Admiral's Ferrari ...a gorgeous little car well documented on the internet just sold at Auction for a little over 5 million ...it just about hit reserve ...I thought it would make twice that ...

I still think Dave's car is worth more ...only other Miglia for sale at moment is 15k ..recently sold one 17k ... I'd be disappointed if he didn't get 12k +

Mister Towed 12th September 2018 06:24

I just spent the weekend at Goodwood Revival. I can assure you that there was no shortage of people with huge wealth and money to burn.

Obviously those bidding on the multi-million pound cars at the prestige auction are only going to be the wealthiest of the lot, but an awful lot of the mid-range classics in the £30k - £100k bracket on the dealer stands had 'sold' stickers in the windscreens by Friday afternoon.

Also check out the prices of 'starter' classics like Spitfires and Midgets. A year ago a nice example of either would set you back around £2,500 but you need about double that today for anything even half decent, while outstanding cars are selling for £10k+. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-Midget...53.m1438.l2649

I guess the problem is that if you're either:

1/ capable of building one of these specials yourself for four to five thousand, you may lose sight of the value you add with your time and skills and only be thinking of the car in terms of the cost of the parts rather than the emotional impact it has on others, or;

2/ unable to see past the 'man built it in a shed so it can't be any good' mentality, you may not be able to see the desirability of something that looks like it's worth millions but could be yours for less than the price of a new Kia Sportage.

The reality for me advertising my Spyder for £24k last year was that there were at least five serious buyers making offers around that price and it sold for very close to the asking price within two weeks. The buyer was given a money back guarantee - return the car in the same condition within one month of taking delivery and I'd give him his money back with no strings attached - but he chose to keep the car and it now lives in a collection worth tens of millions of pounds. A fitting place for a car that turns heads the way it does, despite its humble origins.

And on an even more potentially controversial note, I do find that people who don't have the funds to buy one of these cars for what it's really worth arguing about the 'overpriced' nature of them is rather like the third-class passengers on the Titanic arguing about where the toffs should be sitting in the lifeboats.

Discuss...

Marc F 12th September 2018 12:18

Sounds like we need another financial crash then if entry level classics have doubled in a year.

I think specialist cars will sell well when they find their special buyer. These cars are not mainstream, and not classics. They are specials. And every now and again the right buyer will be found.

Lucky@LeMans 12th September 2018 17:00

I've worked in the oil & gas OEM supply chain for the last 10 years. I was involved in the building / fitting of bespoke pumping systems. You wouldn't believe the problems trying to recruit a good team of engineering fitters that were capable, qualified and had the inclination to do that sort of work. The days of apprenticeship trained lads in their 30's and 40's came to end about
5 - 10 years ago. I'm 52 myself and I feel I'm at the end of an era ! The upside is that my skills are a valuable commodity these days, they weren't until a few years ago, that goes for my car building hobby too. If you work your hours out for a build, even at a very modest £25 - 35 / hour there are plenty of people out there with the money to spend simply because they can't do it themselves or don't have the time or inclination.
For those ill informed people out there who think our cars are "just" kit cars I usually compare them to cars coming out of the nearby Morgan works. Every Morgan is hand built by a bunch of blokes in a few sheds under the Malvern Hills. They assembly and fettle the parts by hand into a completed, bespoke car. That will usually sway the argument !

davecymru 13th September 2018 15:24

Looks like i started an interesting discussion!

Thanks all for your feedback and kind words, i didn't mean to come across all emo, but it's been hectic back at work after the holidays and i (wrongly) assumed that by putting the car up on e-bay that wouldn't be another worry!
:doh:

I've now decided not to use e-bay to sell the car as while there are some great people looking on there, you're right in that it has more than it's fair share of opportunists and bargain seekers and while i expect a bit of wheel-kicking and bargaining, there was one guy in particular who got right up my nose! :boink:

Financially i'm in no rush to sell, so I could hold-off until next year, but TBH i've got loads of new projects that i want to get on with and it would be good to do them in the garage over the winter!

micky1mo 13th September 2018 16:52

Your more than welcome to put your car on my web site.
www.sammiocars.com
It's not ideal but at least you'll get the right sort of people looking at it.:pop2:

Paul L 15th September 2018 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 96793)
...there was one guy in particular who got right up my nose!...

He wasn’t based in Germany by any chance?

As there seems to be a couple of people over there with nothing better to do. :icon_twisted:

Jokes aside, I believe you were right to pull the ad and I hope you have better luck next time.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 96735)
… If anyone can recommend any companies that can sell cars on the owners behalf…

Not sure if these guys do:

http://www.totalheadturners.com/

But it might be worth ringing them to see if they know anyone that does.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 96776)
.. you may lose sight of the value you add with your time and skills and only be thinking of the car in terms of the cost of the parts rather than the emotional impact it has on others, or; unable to see past the 'man built it in a shed so it can't be any good' mentality, you may not be able to see the desirability of something that looks like it's worth millions but could be yours for less than the price of a new Kia Sportage…

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancelot link (Post 96689)
…Third party turnkeys will start at £25,000...no exceptions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans (Post 96779)
…If you work your hours out for a build, even at a very modest £25 - 35 / hour…

These are all good points.

When I get my car looked at by a Triumph specialist, they charge over £90 an hour.

Which covers both their wages and overheads for premises, tools, etc.
( Note: I'm more than happy to pay this and think it provides value for money to me. )

This puts the £25k price Gary will charge for a ‘standard’ turnkey Formosa into context.

And remember that both the earlier Sammio & Migllia builds required more labour.

Dave – You have built more than one kit car and know what you are doing.
(Unlike me. :icon_wink:)

Your car has a lot of nice touches that take time and effort to do. :cool:

Those who want to put your efforts down or complain about the price need to get a life.

As I will keep going back to this guy’s reaction at seeing my car for the first time.

https://youtu.be/eLS-QQwL5ss

These cars are definitely worth more than the sum of their parts.

Cheers, Paul. :)

lancelot link 15th September 2018 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 96824)

This puts the £25k price Gary will charge for a ‘standard’ turnkey Formosa into context.

Even more so when you deduct approx £10,000 for decent donor , kit , wheels , tyres , parts etc. ... deduct a further £3000 + for a quality paintjob and factor in it takes about 3 months to build one fully from start to finish ...

Lucky@LeMans 20th September 2018 17:05

Looking at some of the donor cars used, that will be 3 months of hard grafting too !

swifty 5th December 2018 19:48

Dave one thing I've learnt there is always people out there that will drag down any good in life.

Don't sell your car for less than it's worth, as it's been said on this thread already hang in there and the right person who appreciates the car for what it is will be happy to pay a premium for what is a one off.

If you wait until the spring you may have a bit of competition as I am thinking of putting my spyder up for sale but have no intention of letting it go for peanuts.

Good luck matey and stay possitive.

rochdaleGT 10th December 2018 20:33

that one dealer from germany, mentioned above, has sold a few cars at the beginning, but now the market has realized how much those cars cost in reality.

nearly all new owners popped-up somewhere in a car forum (mostly the triumph ones), complaining how they had been ripped-off....that the car was sold to them far too expensive, they had to invest lots of money to bring it in a kind of reliable state, that the historic registration is questionable etc.

thats not a good way in dealing with those type of cars, nor is it good for the brands sammio, miglia etc.... if a dealer makes profit...thats his way of live...but if a dealer is selling something expensive, than he also needs to deliver quality...

oxford1360 11th December 2018 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by rochdaleGT (Post 98026)
nearly all new owners popped-up somewhere in a car forum (mostly the triumph ones), complaining how they had been ripped-off....

References please.

rochdaleGT 11th December 2018 18:16

https://www.spitfire-forum.eu/viewto...=sammio#p70071

rochdaleGT 11th December 2018 18:17

https://www.spitfire-forum.eu/viewto...=sammio#p70157

rochdaleGT 11th December 2018 18:18

http://www.tvr-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7742

oxford1360 11th December 2018 20:38

OK, rochdaleGT, my German is OK, and none of these references appear to be from people who have bought the car. Furthermore, they date from 2013, 2013 and 2015.

A lot of the comments are from someone called Micha...who will be very familiar to long-standing members of this forum - he liked to make a fool of himself. Comparing the style of English makes me wonder....could you be one and the same?

oxford1360 11th December 2018 20:59

Some things never change....


Mister Towed 11th December 2018 21:26

Hey, Rochdale, you're my kind of guy, yeah!

Clicked on your links and it was sooo good to see the German Triumph fans picking up on the Sammio Spyder and really getting the zeitgeist (I know your English ain't that good so that kinda translates as 'vibe') to the point where they've even linked to a youtube clip of my pals Phil Jacklin and Barry May's cars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upO-OOPe91s

And, hey, they both still have their cars and both absolutely love them, despite them being built in a shed! In England! By a Britisher called Phil! Scheisse!

Lucky@LeMans 11th December 2018 21:38

Great video and great cars ! That's why we love this hobby !

Mister Towed 12th December 2018 06:26

Rochdale, I've just seen your Sportster over on the Marlin front suspension thread and it's a nice car.

There are a few things that aren't to my taste - I don't think the acid green over blue colour scheme works too well and I've never liked black wheels - but those are matters of personal taste.

What I'm struggling to understand, though, is how someone who owns a prototype roadster knocked together in a shed from an assortment of Ford, Rover and laying about the workshop parts, and clearly is justifiably proud of their car, can constantly and monotonously blather on about how bad other people's cars are.

Lucky is spot on with his observation above - that video epitomises the hobby, decent people enjoying their eccentric cars to the full, and if someone wants to pay quite a lot of money to join in the fun (which you seem to have done by buying rather than building your Marlin, btw) then that's their business.

Lucky@LeMans 12th December 2018 12:28

Rochdale's car looks like a good example and will no doubt drive and handle very well with that powerful and light weight V8.

I'm not going to be drawn into the value vs costs vs quality. Its all very subjective and at the end of the day its between the buyer and seller, enthusiast to enthusiast. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Mister Towed 26th December 2018 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxford1360 (Post 98053)
A lot of the comments are from someone called Micha...who will be very familiar to long-standing members of this forum - he liked to make a fool of himself. Comparing the style of English makes me wonder....could you be one and the same?

Can't help wondering myself if RochdaleGT and Micha are one and the same, but is there any evidence?

Some years ago, before he got banned from the site for being an obnoxious troll and all his posts were deleted by the moderators, Micha was asked by Psycho Pops to prove that he had the impressive car collection that he claimed to own/have owned.

His response (copied from a reply from Tribute Automotive posted 5th November 2012 on the Sammio Spyder for Sale with options... thread http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3937 ) was as follows:

to satisfy your couriosity i´m not a builder, i prefer to buy ready built cars or projects and improve them. i´m actually owning certain british made cars (e.g. scimitar, lotus, ginetta) and have owned at least another 15 lotus/tvr or kitcars.

So, quite an unusual selection of cars: Lotus, Reliant, TVR and Ginetta, plus a number of kitcars.

Now, by sheer coincidence, over on the Marlin forum http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=2518 I recently asked RochdaleGT to prove he owned the prototype v8 roadster that he claims to have in his extensive car collection, but can't take any pictures of, and this was his reply:

just to list some of the cars i owned (and some still own) in the last 20y:

8 lotus eclat /excel/elite, 3 TVR tasmin, 1 Rover P6, 2 Ginetta G4/S4, 1 Ginetta G15, 1 Ginetta G27, 2 Sylva Phoenix, 4 sylva striker (here you could contact jeremy phillips, the founderr of sylva autokits as a prove) , 5 westfiels, 1 sammio, 2 Reliant scimitars, 1 marlin berlinetta, 1 marlin sportster, 2 locost, 2 dutton, 1 clan crusader, 1 jeffey j5 seven, 1 fisher fury, 2 NG v8, 1 TVR chimaera, 1 jensen healey.

and several sylva´s and westfields where i was involved into the purchase from friends.


So, quite an unusual selection of cars: Lotus, Reliant, TVR and Ginetta, plus a number of kitcars.

Hmm, the collection seems to have grown a bit, but does it sound familiar?

Maybe there are two enthusiasts, both living in Germany, both claiming to own pretty much exactly the same selection of cars, both refusing to prove they own any of them and both posting rude comments here, insulting genuine builders cars, accusing them of falsifying documentation, poor build standards, getting overspray on their wheels, etc., etc. ad nauseam?

Or perhaps, there's just one sad individual with nothing better to do than cause trouble on somebody else's hobby forum, making exaggerated claims about his own specialist car history while contributing absolutely nothing positive to whatever is being discussed.

No doubt RochdaleGT will disagree with the above, citing coincidence, perhaps, and there may even be someone who'll chip in to defend him and accuse me of being the trouble maker in passive-aggressive style (and, why yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands being comfortably retired), but my mind's made up:

RochdaleGT is indeed TTFKAM, The Troll Formerly Known As Micha.

rochdaleGT 27th December 2018 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 98281)
Can't help wondering myself if RochdaleGT and Micha are one and the same, but is there any evidence?

Some years ago, before he got banned from the site for being an obnoxious troll and all his posts were deleted by the moderators, Micha was asked by Psycho Pops to prove that he had the impressive car collection that he claimed to own/have owned.

His response (copied from a reply from Tribute Automotive posted 5th November 2012 on the Sammio Spyder for Sale with options... thread http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3937 ) was as follows:

to satisfy your couriosity i´m not a builder, i prefer to buy ready built cars or projects and improve them. i´m actually owning certain british made cars (e.g. scimitar, lotus, ginetta) and have owned at least another 15 lotus/tvr or kitcars.

So, quite an unusual selection of cars: Lotus, Reliant, TVR and Ginetta, plus a number of kitcars.

Now, by sheer coincidence, over on the Marlin forum http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=2518 I recently asked RochdaleGT to prove he owned the prototype v8 roadster that he claims to have in his extensive car collection, but can't take any pictures of, and this was his reply:

just to list some of the cars i owned (and some still own) in the last 20y:

8 lotus eclat /excel/elite, 3 TVR tasmin, 1 Rover P6, 2 Ginetta G4/S4, 1 Ginetta G15, 1 Ginetta G27, 2 Sylva Phoenix, 4 sylva striker (here you could contact jeremy phillips, the founderr of sylva autokits as a prove) , 5 westfiels, 1 sammio, 2 Reliant scimitars, 1 marlin berlinetta, 1 marlin sportster, 2 locost, 2 dutton, 1 clan crusader, 1 jeffey j5 seven, 1 fisher fury, 2 NG v8, 1 TVR chimaera, 1 jensen healey.

and several sylva´s and westfields where i was involved into the purchase from friends.


So, quite an unusual selection of cars: Lotus, Reliant, TVR and Ginetta, plus a number of kitcars.

Hmm, the collection seems to have grown a bit, but does it sound familiar?

Maybe there are two enthusiasts, both living in Germany, both claiming to own pretty much exactly the same selection of cars, both refusing to prove they own any of them and both posting rude comments here, insulting genuine builders cars, accusing them of falsifying documentation, poor build standards, getting overspray on their wheels, etc., etc. ad nauseam?

Or perhaps, there's just one sad individual with nothing better to do than cause trouble on somebody else's hobby forum, making exaggerated claims about his own specialist car history while contributing absolutely nothing positive to whatever is being discussed.

No doubt RochdaleGT will disagree with the above, citing coincidence, perhaps, and there may even be someone who'll chip in to defend him and accuse me of being the trouble maker in passive-aggressive style (and, why yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands being comfortably retired), but my mind's made up:

RochdaleGT is indeed TTFKAM, The Troll Formerly Known As Micha.

Mr Towed:

it seems that your only intense is to put my name in a bad light.
YOU hi-jacked the marlin thread with an OFFENSIVE forum-posting. WITHOUT any reference to the thread opener...it was just to put my posting, that i´m owing the marlin-prototpye, into a bad light and calling me a kind of liar...but you still have NOT phoned to marlin who will confirm that i´m the owner of the works-prototype.. now you try to use collected info from MY honest marlin forums´s positng AGAINST me....wow, thats not nice!!!

rochdaleGT 27th December 2018 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 98062)
Rochdale, I've just seen your Sportster over on the Marlin front suspension thread and it's a nice car.

There are a few things that aren't to my taste - I don't think the acid green over blue colour scheme works too well and I've never liked black wheels - but those are matters of personal taste.

What I'm struggling to understand, though, is how someone who owns a prototype roadster knocked together in a shed from an assortment of Ford, Rover and laying about the workshop parts, and clearly is justifiably proud of their car, can constantly and monotonously blather on about how bad other people's cars are.

Lucky is spot on with his observation above - that video epitomises the hobby, decent people enjoying their eccentric cars to the full, and if someone wants to pay quite a lot of money to join in the fun (which you seem to have done by buying rather than building your Marlin, btw) then that's their business.

now i tell you...again something "negative": (even its MY car)

the car´s (marlin´s ) color scheme is horrible...but that was the choice of marlin during the time they built and improved the car. and its a kitcar without any "real" histotric value or any other value....its a kitcar...so why should i change it...its just wasting money... anyway...there was an owner in-between marlin and me:

when i purchased the car it was the "TYPICAL" Uk -Kitcar purchase: the owner (the one after marlin) advertized it...car did not sell (too expensive)...i told him that already when the advert was active during a long conversation....but he was stuborn....ok, i waited....finally he offered me the car for 2/3rd of the advert price (exactly the price i told him from the beginning)...we agreed a deal...i travelled to him.

it was my FIRST rover v8 powered car, i have EVER seen, heard etc...it took excatly 5 seconds after engine start that is was clear: this engine is not healthy....even my mate, who has hardly any idea about cars told me "hey that car sounds strange"

the seller was shocked...i told him "guy, i drove 1500km to you, for collecting a car and you are presenting me a v8 which runs just on 5 or max. 6 cylinders"...a shame!!!

i aksed him to touch the exhaust manifolds...so he could feel that seveal pipes where cold or only medium-warm...he agreed
(just to repeat : HE owned the car for neraly 10 YEARS!!)

it turned out that 1 spark-plug was damaged and on 2 cylinders the valve-spring retainers where cracked, the valves dropped, hit the piston and got slightly bent.

when i removed the heads and inspected the retainers by x-ray...it turned out that the damage must have accured already years ago (contacted the retainer manufacturer, they confirmed a faulty series in that years).....so the guy drove around for years with a v8 , just running on max 6 cylinders....(just to repeat : HE owned the car for neraly 10 YEARS!!) and EXACTLY this "behavior" from an owner, "living with / ignoring defects" is going through plenty of cars i have purchased in UK ....no matter which brand the car was, or which social-status the onwer had.

the repair was done with 2 new valves, new retainers all around, head gaskets and 1 day of labour....obiously the former owner had to pay for it.

and i could report ENDLESS stories from other cars, purchased over the last 20 years (not only by me....also by friends, club members etc), which show similarities. no matter if the car costs 1000pound or 20.0000 pound.... there was hardly ANY deal which did not turn out to have some severe hidden defects....mostly good for me (us), as the sellers had to pay for it.
by the way: mostly mot-relevant problems...even those cars had a fresh MOT....ALL relevant Mot stations where reported to VOSA and DVLA.


thats why i´m cirtisizing the slightest imperfections seen on web adverts, as behind all "small"defects or "honest" desciptions of defects mostly comes a serious problem...i might often be harsh and not diplomatic (truth is thruth) but my long time expireince has meanwhile come to a status where it hardly fails. maybe sometimes a bit to skeptical...but better safe than sorry.

Mister Towed 27th December 2018 07:14

Hello again, Micha. It does rather beg the question, if they're all so bad, why do you keep buying them?

I'm also assuming that the law wherever you are must be different to the UK: here, unless you're buying from a dealer (and it sounds like you are working as a dealer yourself, so there are different rules here governing trade to trade sales), the price is negotiated at the point of sale and the vehicle is legally 'sold as seen' unless a different contract is put in writing. That makes the buyer responsible for the cost of any work needed to get it to the standard desired by the buyer, not the seller.

When I sold my own Spyder, as it went for a not insubstantial price (comfortably over 25,000 Euros) and the buyer didn't have the time to view it before having it collected and transported to his private collection, I gave him a written, money-back guarantee - return the car in the condition it left me within one month, and I'd hand back every penny.

The buyer hadn't asked for that guarantee and I didn't have to offer it to get the sale, I just thought it was the right thing to do given the specialist nature of the vehicle.

The buyer kept the car and it now lives among the Gods (well, some very nice classic Ferraris anyway).

Parked outside my mate Chuck Windsor's place -
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psrp4sw01p.jpg

Bye bye Spyder -
https://i1186.photobucket.com/albums...ps8phc01p9.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psnshc233s.jpg

Happy in its new home -
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...psz823kw15.jpg

Before the buyer came up with an offer of the full asking price less his transport costs of a few hundred pounds, I had turned down three offers approaching 20k Euros from UK private buyers, and was considering offers of around 20k Euros from two European dealers, one Belgian and one French (maybe one of them was you?).

After it sold (within two weeks), an ad I placed in 'Octane' magazine (a must-read for any classic car enthusiast imho) went live (not a scam on my part, btw, it just took a month before they published my ad and the car had already sold), and I continued to receive contact from potential buyers from as far afield as Singapore for six months after the car went.

I guess, the moral of this rather lengthy tale, Micha, is that sometimes, a specialist car can be worth far more than the sum of its parts, and some amateur builders can actually put a really desirable car together., warts and all.

But then, if you really were as Madabout Kitcars as I am, you'd already know that, wouldn't you?

Paul L 27th December 2018 10:17

Mr T - Going forward, I wouldn't waste the energy replying.

I have certainly wasted enough of my time in the past on this.

I would much rather see you posting about your Speedster build or Midget mods. :cool:

Your original Sammio Spyder 'Build' and 'On the road' treads, plus your (literally) hundreds of replies on my own build thread helped me to finish my build and get my own car on the road. And, despite its many faults, I still take great pride in the fact I built this car myself (with some professional help in places).

Cheers, Paul. :)

peterux 27th December 2018 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 98214)
I'll sign off for good now and won't be back as I don't want to further feed the troll.

Oh really, we wish you well!:wave::wave::wave:

Munky 27th December 2018 13:22

There’s lots of love all over the Internet for these cars.
I frequent this VW site and there’s some serious love for Sammio, Tribute, migila and others.

I find it interesting reading what others think to the hobby.

https://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showth...492697&page=70

And if anyone thinks the state of UK cars are bad, you should come to the US. In my state, if it dives, you can drive it. No inspections. There are some real heaps crawling around on the roads!

Mister Towed 29th December 2018 07:11

Just posted the below over on the Marlin thread (by accident as it happens but decided to leave it there), so apologies if you've already read it.

Hi Jeff and anyone else who's still following this debate, which is probably getting quite tiresome for all involved.

I've taken a day off even accessing the madabout site to have a think about where all this is going, how it started in the first place and who's trolling who.

This is from Wikipedia -

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

Reading that, what I'm guilty of is getting drawn into responding emotionally to RochdaleGT (aka Micha)'s deliberately provocative posts, probably because I'm quite passionate and protective about our hobby.

If anyone cares to look, click on Rochdale's username then select 'Find all posts' and you'll see dozens and dozens of examples of an individual who repeatedly starts provocative topics, insulting other builders/owners cars without even seeing them, and criticising the UK kit car industry generally without ever contributing anything positive that couldn't just bee googled.

Check my post history and you'll find thousands of posts about building and running cars.

Okay, so you'll also find that I have, ahem, fairly strong opinions on some things and fell out with Jeff H over whether an amateur kit car builder should spray their own car or pay a professional to do it, and I should have just walked away from that when it became an all-out argument and stopped being a positive debate.

For that, and for calling you a troll, which you're not according to the definition above, Jeff H, I unreservedly apologise.

So, on reflection, the best thing I can do now is completely ignore any posts by Rohcdale/Micha, as in the grand scheme of things he really isn't going to damage our hobby by posting half-arsed insults about cars he's never seen while claiming a long, personal history of buying real lemons.

So, back to cars for me from now on, time for a quick shower then I'm off to the Brass Monkeys Run up to the North Norfolk Coast in my Midget. Hope to be making the same run in my 356 Speedster next year.

Happy New Year, Everyone!


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