miglia speedster
 

This is my new plug ready to mould on monday, all the hard work has been done, which will allow you to fit this kit together in a couple of weeks. watch this space.

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/...ps19a267ca.jpg

WOW!
What a fantastic finish! Looks like your doors fit as well. And a bonnet. Nice one Mike:biggrin:
Good name too. A+

Thanks mate, it all works well as ive spent many hours making fit , doors and bonnet have 5mm gapping ,and door hinges work straight away too , im offering this kit from this week .

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/...psc8dccf3e.jpg

Body just put on top of chassis , needs lowering , but will look great in all colours and trim

So Mick, If I see this right, you are about to make duplicate moulds of the old Sammio model to which I have rights now and have only done as much as one of our own builders could have done. Nice finish and all but if I see this advertised ANYWHERE, you will have the solicitors knocking at your door and all Kit Car press warned to steer clear of such an obvious knock off....

Shame on you.

Andy , sorry to disappoint you, but this is way off your sammio kit and definitely not a knock off, as its a longer front , rear end is my own design , a new shape bonnet not flip front , my own grill design and doors my own design .Also the hump is moulded from a porsche 550 . All fits and great finished kit too. I think your find that i had a big influence of the sammio as i designed kit with gary. Way more overall difference than the sammio. So please hold back on the threats .

Hi Mike,
Are you saying that this new car is not the one published in this thread:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3659
Where it says quite plainly that it is a build based on a Cordite (Now Navigator)? If so, could my curiosity be satisfied by seeing the two side by side?

Hello...I wondered when this was going to raise its head....

Firstly , just to get something straight from the offset ...the new Miglia is nothing to do with me. I have no involvement with it at all , no influence , no financial backing , no work on the project , nothing. I haven't even seen the finished buck as its shown here ... I rarely visit my old workshop nowadays as I am kept busy in my own little world.

I can see the argument from both sides.

If I was Andy , having just bought a going concern , concept , patterns , jigs etc. and planning to raise the products profile this year with exciting new ideas etc..I would also be pretty bloody miffed. I spent my time as custodian of the Sammio concept worrying that someone would do just this to me...I have had it happen to me before after a big investment of time and money into a previous project and it wasn't very nice...

I was uncomfortable about the Tribute A352 when it was born as I felt that was 'a bit close' to my original concept , there is also a guy in Reading , Oliver , who has created an AC Ace body to go on a Vitesse chassis , a guy who has owned 2 Sammio's , so obvious where his inspiration came from as well...

The problem is , I think , that as in the original glory days of the Special bodied chassis , the 50's and 60's , imitators and look a likes will spring up all over the place if enterprising people see potential in a product....I looked back at that time period , took my knowledge of Triumph chassis fitting old Ford Populars and created a modern day solution to building those cars of old...so the Sammio wasn't a new idea , it was a twist on an old idea...

Of course , you can patent , copyright etc to avoid this , but its expensive and difficult to police as I believe you only need to change something like 10% of a design to not be breaching that....there is an argument that the concept can be a breach if its deemed to be similar , but I dont know how that works....

As far as the Miglia is concerned , Mike is being a bit naughty , I think he knows he was never going to be releasing this without some flack , but in his defence , he has changed a lot of the body....it still clearly displays its origins ( as did the original Sammio versus Nickri comparible ) , it also features the definitive 50's Special features , ie. headrest , fish mouth grille , hipped rear wings etc. that many many cars of that era wore....but he has completely changed the bonnet area , one piece body , seperate bonnet , re-contoured cowl into dash area , re-shaped doors , re-shaped rear wings and rear valance , much longer nose and re-shaped grille opening etc.

So basically , I see Andy's stand on this , If I was him I would be unhappy too.....but I can see how Mike feels that he has introduced a clearly influenced by , but new body option to the market place...

Not wanting to get caught up in a battle of words , but I would be interested to hear Andy's stand on his idea to re-skin a Spitfire with a Ribble body leaving the cut bodyshell largely in place ? I only ask because this concept was kind of concieved by Tribute with their A352 , who borrowed the idea from Banham with his 550/skoda builds....Not a flippant or antagonistic comment , just wondering where the line is drawn on 'borrowed concept'...

Well, I love it and I have a kit on order!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I am sure that there will be more Sammio look-a-likes out there.

It will come down to consumer choice. Who offers the best quality kit? The best customer service?


The Miglia Speedster kit is a great quality kit, and looks great with its longer fixed front.

Good on you Mike, and I am sure that others will see the difference and make their own minds up.

Looks beautifully made, well done Mike.

Many thanks gary

Et tu, Mike?

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3486

Mike did you apply the red banding on the tyres or is that standard with that brand, a real neat finish by the way best of luck despite the aggro
Pops

This is a very emotive subject which has polarised opinion into two camps: is Mike right to put this car into production or not?

I have a great deal of respect for Mike - he is undoubtedly a skilled and capable old-school craftsman who produces exceptionally well finished work. You just have to look at his Sammio V8 special above to see that.

I have no issue with Mike starting a business competing with the Ribble product either - nobody owns the fifties 'Special' concept of rebodying a worn out saloon into a racy sports car after all.

If I'd bought the Sammio company from Gary, however, I'd have included a clause prohibiting the previous owner and former employees from setting up in direct competition for a period of five years. I fear Andy P may be too much of a Gentleman to have thought of this though.

The only thing that makes me feel very uncomfortable about this business is the lack of differentiation between the original Sammio product and Mike's 'new' car, which, from his own build thread is a modified Sammio Cordite.

I'm sure Mike is more than capable of creating something genuinely unique with the rebody concept using the small chassis Triumph as a donor - Tribute Automotive demonstrated this very effectively with their A352, which is different enough from the look of the Sammio to clearly be another design. If inspiration is needed there are plenty of ideas on the 'net - even on this forum if you look.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3080

I think you'd have a real winner on your hands if you put one of those into production.

So, that's it from me. Although what Mike is planning to do may well be legal, I don't think it's very ethical.

This should also serve as a wake-up call to Andy P, though: If you're going to compete in this cut-throat business you need to get your product fully sorted, your production organised and your kits into customers' garages pretty darn sharpish.

Thanks T. For clarification, there are clauses in the sale of the company. As Gary was sole owner and subcontracted Mike, he wasn't deemed an 'Employee' but worked to Gary's requirements. He may have had an artistic hand in the design but ultimately the IPR belonged to Gary. The clauses in the contract of sale say:

MR. GARY JANES ( GJ ) has ceased to have control of *******(Removed for legal reasons but not affecting the meaning) products relating to the SAMMIO SPYDER ( SS ) or SAMMIO CORDITE ( SC ).

No new orders will be received by GJ for SS or SC related items.
Control of the website , advertising , promotion etc has also passed to AP.

GJ may continue to trade under the SAMMIO banner but not with contradiction to the agreement above.

Any Sammio product not relating to the SS or SC line will continue to be the property of GJ , namely the G46 Concept. (Obviously this has now been taken on by Gaz, completing the old Sammio 'Set')

Firstly let me state that I have no part in this, Im not taking either side and have nothing to gain nor lose from this 'new' product however saying that its way off the sammio kit is a joke. It took a Cordite body to make your kit, the back end of which you have changed in no way. It is in actual fact a long nose Cordite with a large scoop as stated in your own build thread which is in what part of this forum? Oh thats right, its in the sammio builds section of this forum.

You seem to be confusing the fact that you designed the original Cordite with owning the rights to the design. It is far from being the same thing and as Andy owns the rights to it he would have a very strong legal case should you put the car into production. It doesnt matter that you designed the doors, rear end or any other part of the original car, you designed it for somebody else (Sammio) and so have no ownership of those designs.

Just a word of warning, if Andy does decide to seek legal action, your employment under Gary would probably be scrutinised. Reading the build thread it sounds as though some of the parts used may have been taken as part payment. You would be well advised to make sure that everything was above board and all earnings declared and all tax paid. This may sound like a threat from me however that is not my intension, far from it, I have just seen in the past how these things can very quickly get out of hand.

My advice would be to kill the project now (you are more than capable of creating something new for yourself) or find a comprimise with Andy that would give you use of what is his intellectual property before anything turns nasty.

Nickri Spyder
 

http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/arch...p?t-17992.html
http://www.oldtimer.400.pl/NICKRI/Nickri_spyder.jpg

Nickris were manufactured in Essex by Clifford Nicholson and Chris Krimmel between 1958 and 1963.
About 450 cars were made, with five different models, designed to fit Fords from that period.

There is a subtle difference. Nickris were no longer being made and were not available for sale when GJ moddified the kit to become a Sammio. Sammio (now Ribble) is still a very active company and there is the problem.