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-   -   Ribble News (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4030)

AndyP57 7th January 2013 08:30

Ribble News
 
I've taken on board the comments regarding keeping notes and photos of the progress of developments, new and old, on the forum and have done something about it.

As of now, I've appointed my lad, Andrew (Yes it does get confusing with both of us having the same name!) as 'diarist' and he will be responsible for following me around with a camera and writing additions to this thread regularly about what we are up to. (Think of him as the 'Watson' to my 'Holmes').

It's something of a cruel task really as unfortunately he will never be able to drive one of our cars due to his sheer size (6'7" and build like a brick outhouse) but he's keen and will be playing an increasing role in the company's dealings, on and off the forum. Some may have already met him but for those who haven't yet, he'll continue to be with me at any shows we attend.

First post due soon. I can feel him creeping around the workshop as we speak :biggrin:

Mister Towed 7th January 2013 09:13

I met little Andy Junior at one of the shows last year when Gary launched the Cordite. At least he can help move cars around the workshop - he should be able to manage two in each hand. :biggrin:

When time and business success allow you could consider building him a one-off single seater. A spaceframe chassis with a central driving position and a Spyder body bonded on top should'nt be too hard to do for an ex Appo, surely?

AndyP57 7th January 2013 14:31

OK, so it's probably more of interest to those who live up here in the frozen wastelands of the North West but having had a pleasant meeting with the Manager of the Ribble Pilot pub, we've been invited to show our own Ribble Pilot Demonstrator off at their 'Family Day' and the annual 'Riversway Festival' with local press interest.:whoo:

The 1958 Rocker 7th January 2013 20:27

Well done
 
Woo Hoo look at you!

seanick 7th January 2013 20:52

Great. Look forward to the updates.

AndyP57 8th January 2013 12:55

A couple of tasters before the lad gets his teeth into the thread.

I mentioned the modification of the moulds on other threads but a couple of photos to illustrate this:

Blanking off the 'Hump' on the Navigator mould. THis is nearly finished now, as is the Pilot mould. The hump is now to be sent as a separate item with the kit so the builder has ultimate choice over its position.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps306ae9fa.jpg

The door void is also being blanked off:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7c190799.jpg

Work continues on the Navigator demonstrator. Although doorless, it does retain a single hump and will be wearing a half tonneau and bar.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...psbf91a996.jpg

I've been playing with engine access too. As a 'tall guy', even the hinged front is somewhat restrictive and if all I want to do is to check the oil and water levels, seems overkill. To this end, I'm mounting the front on a set of locking pins on top, a dzus at each sill and a single screw at the front accessed through the grille. Daily access will be through a conventional bonnet but heavier jobs can be done by taking the whole front off in a matter of minutes.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6c3c509f.jpg

More soon....

oxford1360 8th January 2013 13:04

Looking good. I like the move to a semi-fixed bonnet with access hatch. You could have different hatches to suit your mood - big scoop, small scoop, etc..

AndyP57 8th January 2013 13:11

The move really came about after seeing bonnet edges flapping about and the desire to hold them down more securely. It probably doesn't need one big hatch either. As long as the dip stick and radiator filler were accessible on a daily basis you could get away with a couple of very small flip hatches similar to aircraft access panels. (Though I do like to have a brief Shufti around whilst doing those jobs)

Mister Towed 8th January 2013 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyP57 (Post 38783)
The move really came about after seeing bonnet edges flapping about and the desire to hold them down more securely. It probably doesn't need one big hatch either. As long as the dip stick and radiator filler were accessible on a daily basis you could get away with a couple of very small flip hatches similar to aircraft access panels. (Though I do like to have a brief Shufti around whilst doing those jobs)

I did think about putting a hinge on my secondary scoop to give access to the radiator filler and dip-stick. Ultimately though, it really isn't that difficult to flip the whole front forward for full access. Bonnet pins to hold the trailing edge of the bonnet down at speed are necessary though, and maybe even a couple of vents to let the air out and stop it 'balooning' might help.

AndyP57 10th January 2013 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 38757)
When time and business success allow you could consider building him a one-off single seater. A spaceframe chassis with a central driving position and a Spyder body bonded on top should'nt be too hard to do for an ex Appo, surely?

Yup, it could be the only way (Sorry lad, I just had to post this one!)
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps23ad0667.jpg

WorldClassAccident 10th January 2013 11:31

He wants my G46 and just mount the drivers seat in the old rear footwell. He will be fine!

AndyP85 10th January 2013 16:18

And now the news and we start with the great experiment!

We have been working with the premise of trying to put a body over some of the existing donors body (obviously cutting away the windscreen, the boot, rear wings and temporarily removing the fuel tank) and putting the Navigator body on. This it seems works brilliantly as you can see below!

It's taken less then two days from driving the donor in to putting the body on!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-q...109_122950.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P...109_151845.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8...110_154706.jpg

Building this way means the builder doesn't have to play around with a frame unless his/her donors body is rotten. So buying a good donor will take less time building your kit as buying a reasonable donor and doing a traditional build. In keeping the 'tub' you may also keep the original windscreen and the roof (soft top and hard top for when the weather isn't so great). We are going to be dehumping and possibly blanking the doors off also

Also in the news, AndyP57 has continued redesigning the moulds for Pilot and Navigator by 'dehumping' both and blanking off the door on the Navigator (as you have already seen he's beaten me to it by uploading a couple of pics!).

This is a very crude 'concept' mock up I have done on what a Navigator may look like dehumped!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k...fore+after.jpg

Unless I have forgotten anything (which I am sure AndyP57 will fill in gaps) I think that is all until next week :surprised:

oxford1360 10th January 2013 16:24

The "speed build" is a great idea. Are you able to keep the dash without touching it. It will appeal to some that the interior is ready-made and that there is no need to disconnect electrics.
Top work, chaps.

AndyP85 10th January 2013 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxford1360 (Post 38832)
The "speed build" is a great idea. Are you able to keep the dash without touching it. It will appeal to some that the interior is ready-made and that there is no need to disconnect electrics.
Top work, chaps.

Yes the dash is still in place. I think there was a little modification but AndyP57 will explain what that was.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y...110_154909.jpg

I like the idea of the fast build for those who don't have the time and resources for a traditional build.

oxford1360 10th January 2013 16:45

With a little bit of attention and the addition of a Mota Lita wheel, that dash could be made to look very period.

Hmmm, I can see myself building a second car in a few years. Stop it.

WorldClassAccident 10th January 2013 16:47

The concept works well for Tribute Automotive (another marabout forum)

AndyP57 10th January 2013 16:47

To fill in, Obviously we've taken the same 'tack' as the Tribute guys 'next door' in cutting sufficient Donor away to fit the Navigator body over it. This, in effect means taking away the boot walls and floor along with the outer rear wings. The only part of the dashboard taken off is the 'Crash Pad' which comes off with the removal of 6 nuts. I also took the windscreen wiper spindles and motor away. The actual instrument panel is untouched and has not had anything disconnected. In this way, no electrics other than the lighting circuit has been affected and the pedals and brake circuits are similarly unaffected.
Not a build concept for everyone but if the tub is in good condition, it makes sense to retain as much of it as possible. This helps with floor pans and of course the ?!**?! Hand Brake

By the way, it's currently taken about 6 manhours and we're near ready to bond the body on :biggrin:

phil9 10th January 2013 17:29

nice too see you working things out .... but i have to ask...the new car s.. pilot ..navigator.. one fits a spitfire ..is the second body style too fit standed vitesse / herald chassic is that right ... as the spit /gt6 are not as long in the chassic...... are u make in one with doors to fit herald/vitesse and do they look much like the old sammio ie [ bonnet and body ] the same just need to no for us guy s who are still going to use vitesse run in gear just getting a bit confused with new names .....and yes andy i got your email thanks:

AndyP57 11th January 2013 09:27

Hi Phil, No worries. The cars aren't new, just the names. For the Herald/Vitesse model that was the Spyder (Now the Pilot), the ONLY change will be that the hump will be sent separately so that the LHD orders won't mean cutting the rear deck about (And also allows the Twin hump look to be easily achieved). The Navigator is essentially the Cordite with the same treatment to the hump and doors closed off (The builder can cut a symmetrical pair to suit themselves).
We're also taking the opportunity to clean and repair the moulds where necessary.

Paul L 12th January 2013 16:17

You know I think the "Tribute" cut down body shell approach is an inspired idea. :cool:

Compared to the alternative frame work approach, this makes much more sense.
It removes so many of the problems I'm facing that I can only weep knowing I sold my tub. :icon_sad:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7486.jpg

Although you mention removing the boot, I assume you kept the boot floor to bolt the silencers to?

Also does the sanding marks mean the drak blue "rattle can" paint job is being re-done?

I'd still be grateful if you could answer some of my frame related questions at the end of this thread:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...?t=3716&page=3

I look forward to more updates on both of these demonstrator builds.

Cheers, Paul. :)

AndyP57 13th January 2013 08:04

Not so much news as a question to all of you regarding frames.

I've no intention of completely discontinuing the frame idea in lieu of the 'cut down tub' approach as I see that as an alternative if your donor tub has enough life in it, but for those needing a frame, if you were given a choice of being supplied a completed frame or having a set of drawings available (Maybe as a download from the web site or this forum) so you could make your own, what percentage of you would opt to DIY against those who would pay to have the frame supplied?

Note that this in no way implies that I'm thinking of not supplying the frame in the future, just gauging the demand.

Viatron 13th January 2013 12:26

I'd be happy to fab my own frame from drawings, bearing in mind the variance in these cars it may be the way to go?

oxford1360 13th January 2013 12:46

Plans to fab your own frame would get the thumbs-up from me.

seanick 13th January 2013 14:08

Constructing ones own frame from scratch is fine if youare experianced and can produce proffesional quality welds :tape2:
The difference between blobbing something together with a budget MIG and producing smooth fluid welds with the correct level of deposition and penetration. Unfortunately, you will only find out how good your welds are when you have crash, and your welds fail
. The result could be being speared by bits of box section, or, when. Your seatbelt mounts fail, being speared on your non collapsible steering column....

I dont want to br prophet of doom here, but I did a City and Guilds welding course about 26 years ago, and after 26 years regular practice l know I still have room for improvement!
This observation is not meant to be negative, just my own observations.

The other issue is that any bodyshell has to be perfectly symmetrical to match a possibly symmetrical frame, and visa versa. Can of worms here.

Right, Ill get my coat.:icon_eek:

Viatron 13th January 2013 14:29

Andy has already stated that the option to self build would not replace the option to buy a factory frame, im happy with my welding and have crash tested it on the race car on a couple of occassions with no visits to hospital :-), horses for courses i think.

AndyP57 13th January 2013 14:29

Agreed. But in the same way as we subcontract the frames locally here to a time served welder, those who elect to go by plans need not do it themselves but have a local engineer fabricate it. This way the builder would benefit in two ways. Firstly by saving carriage weight to their part of the country and secondly (and more importantly) in having the final say in where bracketry, tank mounts etc. should go. They would also have complete control over the finished article's quality. Of course we would always remain an option in that you would order your kit 'with frame'

seanick 13th January 2013 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viatron (Post 38942)
Andy has already stated that the option to self build would not replace the option to buy a factory frame, im happy with my welding and have crash tested it on the race car on a couple of occassions with no visits to hospital :-), horses for courses i think.

Ouch! You obviously are an experienced operator! Tell us about your race car?
My concern is for those who chose to learn to weld for the purpose of building say this frame. Good idea to reduce postal costs, but it should fit inside the body shell?

davecymru 13th January 2013 15:23

My 2p is that given the already relatively minimal cost for purchasing the frame I cant see this as a major money saver, but there are always going to be people who want to do it themselves, so why not?

Paul D 13th January 2013 16:44

When I heard about the Sammio in September 2009, the talk from Gary was very much to 'make your own frame'. I understood from him that this was common for special builders in the 50's. Problem was, there were no plans or even a rough sketch to follow. Absolutely nothing at all. We ordered a body and frame together because I wasn't confident about creating the design - not because of worries about building it. After all, plenty of us have rebuilt the Herald chassis by learning the hard way.

If plans had been available I for one would have gone that route. In fact if you factor in all the mods we made to our frame to make it line up with our chassis, we practically re-built it anyway. One issue would be the mounting plates though, How about selling a set of plans with a material specification sheet, and a pre-drilled set of mounting plates to be welded on?

Finally, the original spirit of the Sammio was a low entry cost product. offering frame plans allows people to buy into the idea initially & get started on the donor whilst saving up for the body package.

A set of plans as an alternative gets my vote.

Mister Towed 13th January 2013 16:58

As a self taught novice using a cheap mma stick welder I've chopped, changed and fabricated so many parts of my frame that I'm confident I could've made it from plans myself and acheived a better fit.

However, eighteen months ago I'd never tried welding and probably never would have if my chassis hadn't been so rotten. To be honest, if the only option had been to fabricate my own frame it would have put me off buying the kit as I would've felt that it was beyond my abilities, and finding a reliable machine shop to do stuff these days is getting pretty hard.

I'd offer both options - an 'off the shelf' frame for those who want the convenience, and a set of plans for those who want to do it themselves. After all, I guess you have the plans available and own the copyright?

oxford1360 13th January 2013 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul D (Post 38950)
One issue would be the mounting plates though, How about selling a set of plans with a material specification sheet, and a pre-drilled set of mounting plates to be welded on.

When I bought my body (with no frame) from Gary he sold me a set of pre-drilled mounting plates for 20.

Viatron 14th January 2013 01:28

Seanick,
Current rebuild thread available here although its going to be more of a track toy now as cancer a few years ago has left me on drugs incompatible with a race licence:
http://viatron.websitetoolbox.com/po...-Build-5704537

Before this rebuild it wore the traditional lotus 7 style bodywork, some pics here:
http://www.vxs-racing.co.uk/
Lots more of the GTA available in picture form here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111529572187631903852

Sorry for the hijack Andy

oxford1360 18th January 2013 14:15

One thought regarding the separate hump that has been prompted by my plan to cut-off mine and to centre it on the seat........

You could strengthen it and make some discrete mountings and have it as a removable item. It would not be difficult to make it look neat with some sealing trim.

Then, some days you could have a car with one or two humps, and on other days a humpless beast.

Not sure whether I shall make mine removable but I have a fair bit of time to decide.

AndyP57 18th January 2013 14:26

Our thinking exactly! The hump we cut off the latest Navigator body might make a reappearance as a clip on item with space in it for gloves, goggles, first aid box and gaviscon :biggrin:

Viatron 18th January 2013 15:01

Liking the idea of separate humps as I want twin humps on mine but was always not happy at the way they were offset, at least being separate I can "play" with them to get them where I want them.

AndyP57 25th January 2013 11:10

We mentioned a move some time ago but it's taken longer than we had hoped with one offer falling down and another taking its place. We collected the keys for our new home today and will be moving in over the next week (or so) and starting production very soon afterwards (Many thanks for your patience, those who have been waiting on this).
Vastly bigger than the (now 3) units we are currently in and having a door that will accommodate bigger cars with 'wriggle room' will make things easier for us. The new address is:

UNIT D1, LEYLAND BUSINESS PARK, CENTURION WAY
LEYLAND, LANCASHIRE PR25 3GR

With a new phone number following soon.

To give you an idea of the size of the place, here's a couple of photos taken today before anything gets moved in:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4c0de4fd.jpg

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5e53fb32.jpg

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7e0e8962.jpg

Viatron 25th January 2013 11:30

Very nice Andy, has it got any heating :-)

AndyP57 25th January 2013 11:35

The office is heated but we're looking at space heaters to take the chill off the main workshop. Great lighting though as there are lots of window areas in the ceiling which can be aided by the rows of fluorescents.

froggyman 25th January 2013 11:36

Wow that is some unit! Good luck with the move.
I would keep the 'Ribble' name tho as 'Leyland' just doesn't suit the car and its history is not that good either.

AndyP57 25th January 2013 11:44

Oh Aye. That's not changing again. We're still only a stones throw away from the river. (And yes, we're just across the road from Leyland Trucks)


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