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-   -   Is that a DNA kit oh dear (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7295)

andysharrock 25th May 2020 09:56

Is that a DNA kit oh dear
 
always check ebay to see what kits are for sale if the price is right always up for the right one to finish . Just spoted what I think is a DNA kit still been built and advertised all badged up.TUT TUT
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ferrari-2...cAAOSw0t5ey3Pc

Mitchelkitman 25th May 2020 11:03

Interesting - I thought that was going to be a pile of junk parts which had been damaged and never fitted :laugh:
Another interesting, when I looked at the Ebay ad I decided to ask the vendor some pertinent questions (aren't I naughty), and noticed Ebay had put my name and phone number in my question, and a prompt of "best time to call"
I removed them and it wouldn't send the question (required fields) So I changed my name to "Curious" and my 'phone number to "00000000"
:badgrin:
There's always ways around these things :whoo:

be interesting to see what response I get.
For the curious...... my question "Is this registered as a Ferrari or Tribute"
OOps I've just realised my error there :frusty:

WorldClassAccident 25th May 2020 12:32

This is not a kit car its a recreation

Recreated using a donor car and a kit :-)

smash 25th May 2020 12:42

Thats not going to end well. He's clearly building for profit. Only a matter of time before he gets a cease and desist from Ferrari.

More to the point, where's he getting the kits from? If he gets a tug then I'd expect them to jump on the kit supplier too. So he's potentially going to ruin it for genuine home builders who might want to build one.

This must be the guy who was selling a red one earlier in the year - custom made stainless parts (and pic of it is in the advert)

smash 25th May 2020 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident (Post 104274)
This is not a kit car its a recreation

Recreated using a donor car and a kit :-)

:badgrin: Lol!

We take 1962 stock aluminium and bath it for 3 days in a vat of 60 year old Amoretto. It's more Italian than anything that originally came out of the factory. Then we take the finest Brick Lane hides and treat them with the juice of highest quality Mozarella di buffala to create interiors with the true flavour of Modena... and finally, all our cars are blessed* by the Mother Superior of the Sanctuary of the Holy House of Loreto.

*via Skype. Surcharge applies.

redratbike 25th May 2020 13:53

“Original badges are sold with each vehicle, I am not allowed to sell a car with them fitted”

I’m sure he is allowed to fit the original BMW badges ..ha ha ha

tricky360 25th May 2020 14:05

This guy Bought two kits at the very beginning when Dna started production
He splashed the moulds and has copied the Dna car and is now producing them himself

oxford1360 25th May 2020 15:25

The lead time on cars is 3 months. 3,000 hours spread over 3 months would require 5-6 people full time.

So, as a very rough estimate, the parts, body and paint cost 25k (this is a minimum), then add some "factory" overheads...then divide the remainder by 3000 and the individuals who worked on it are earning just above the minimum wage.

I know these are all rough estimates, but the advert does have a certain aroma, similar to something that could be produced by an Italian horse.

Mitchelkitman 25th May 2020 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman (Post 104272)
Interesting - I thought that was going to be a pile of junk parts which had been damaged and never fitted :laugh:
Another interesting, when I looked at the Ebay ad I decided to ask the vendor some pertinent questions (aren't I naughty), and noticed Ebay had put my name and phone number in my question, and a prompt of "best time to call"
I removed them and it wouldn't send the question (required fields) So I changed my name to "Curious" and my 'phone number to "00000000"
:badgrin:
There's always ways around these things :whoo:

be interesting to see what response I get.
For the curious...... my question "Is this registered as a Ferrari or Tribute"
OOps I've just realised my error there :frusty:

I got a reply (I have to say, one wasn't expected), but..... In the words of the great Victor Meldrew I DON'T BEELIEEEVE IT!

Nether, Its still registered as a BMW, cheaper to insure as a heavily modified car. This is my own design passed by Ferrari and trading standards.


Who's going to tell him (or Ebay!)?

oxford1360 25th May 2020 17:32

"This is my own design passed by Ferrari and trading standards."

:flypig::flypig::flypig:

andysharrock 25th May 2020 18:21

could it just be a scam someone trying it on for deposit just to do a runner. The red one is registered as a BERINI M42 and the black one a Z3

Mitchelkitman 26th May 2020 09:48

My follow-up question which again (surprisingly) received an answer

What is the make model on the V5? Is this a DNA kit?


It's a Bmw z3 and no it's not a DNA kit


Hmm.... Think the cage is rattled :badgrin:

Mitchelkitman 26th May 2020 09:49

If splashes have been made off a DNA, could DNA raise a legal case for copying?

andysharrock 26th May 2020 09:58

DNA should be more worried about getting another letter ,No one can be that stupid can they

Mitchelkitman 26th May 2020 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman (Post 104291)
My follow-up question which again (surprisingly) received an answer

What is the make model on the V5? Is this a DNA kit?


It's a Bmw z3 and no it's not a DNA kit


Hmm.... Think the cage is rattled :badgrin:

So correctly registered then?

andysharrock 27th May 2020 20:24

selling kits now if its as good as the dna kit its a good price https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ferrari-2...oAAOSw8zJezUrz

Mitchelkitman 27th May 2020 20:50

Hmm.... Will he be exhibiting at Newark or Stoneleigh?

smash 27th May 2020 21:30

See they've deleted the filler flap - nice mod.

I see there's no badges visible in the DIY Kit advert.

But yes surely a worry it'll come back on DNA

andysharrock 27th May 2020 21:50

if we were in normal times I would go take a look york is only 1 hour away .hes got to get shut down in the next few weeks. but then again he has got a letter saying he can sell them with the consent of ?

Mitchelkitman 27th May 2020 21:59

Wonder if I should buy one and take a mould off it? Bet he'd be upset :heh:

How does the fuel get into it? :bounce:

Munky 28th May 2020 02:09

Wonder if he would be willing to just sell parts?
A dash would be a great starting place for many a z3 based project.
Still tough to see someone else making money from Brian’s hard work.

andysharrock 28th May 2020 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman (Post 104307)
Wonder if I should buy one and take a mould off it? Bet he'd be upset :heh:

How does the fuel get into it? :bounce:

says in the boot on the listing as that is how it is on the OG car. in the uk now would this pass a mot doesn't the tank need to vent to the outside not in the boot

Mitchelkitman 28th May 2020 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by andysharrock (Post 104312)
says in the boot on the listing as that is how it is on the OG car. in the uk now would this pass a mot doesn't the tank need to vent to the outside not in the boot

OOER - I hadn't noticed that, naughty indeed and not recommended for obvious reasons. I won't be buying one anyway (sorry is this comment upsets anyone) because IMHO it just looks like an MGB gone wrong. Have to say the quality of the DNA mouldings looked excellent, though these cars may or may not be.
Dislike the moulding off another's product (if that's what's happened) although some could say the copying in the first place is wrong. Murky waters indeed.
IMHO copying an F of this vintage wasn't as serious as copying the more recent (and in some cases in production?) product, the latter which it would seem didn't raise a concern.
***Mods - delete some of this if you deem it necessary.

Car photographer 1st June 2020 12:48

Hmm, I'm confused - I may be wrong but I thought after 50 years that any copyrighted designs became released into public domain?

if this was the case how can the 'big F' stop people from copying their older cars in the first place?

Mister Towed 1st June 2020 13:44

It's all very complicated, even with a background in (criminal) law I can't really fathom it -

https://www.gov.uk/browse/business/i...ctual-property

To me it looks like literary and artistic copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the creator, but that doesn't really cover car designs.

That's more likely to come under 'Design Right' so expires a maximum of 15 years after the design was created, meaning most of the cars we're replicating are comfortably outside that time limit.

I think that the issue the big players have, like Bentley, Mercedes and Fennari, is infringement of their trademark, especially when applied to an inferior product.

Just to buck the trend, I understand from the Chesil website that Porsche actually steer potential customers who enquire about used 356's to their door, so they at least are happy to see thousands of beetle-based Speedsters representing their brand. Not too sure how they'd be about the badges, though.

Mine's going to wear Wendler Reutlingen Coach Builder badges as they're no longer trading, but I also have a couple of gold plated 'P_____e' scripts that might make an appearance...

Paul L 1st June 2020 20:58

It is a bit of a long story and based on American law, but this is a great insight into this sort of thing.

Key points seemed to be you have to defend the trade mark and some parts of a car are technical and not covered (e.g. flared wheel arches).

https://www.facebook.com/factoryfive...164897704/?t=1

andysharrock 1st June 2020 21:44

worth a watch that video it would make a good film .cheers paul

smash 1st June 2020 23:36

It's always been misuse of trade dress I.e. badging as far as I'm aware. Some names also copyright of F. I found a website once which shows all copyrights held. Jumping of F as starting point was like going down rabbit hole. Current and recent body shapes were on there as well. And the name Scaglietti. No vintage cars however. They have loads of copyrights.

Nubodi - used trade dress in commercial adverts (and biggest wing shields known to man) - jumped on. DNA - used trade dress in commercial adverts and prominently displayed at classic car shows - jumped on. GB used trade dress - jumped on (alledged).

Mirage GT - far more accurate SWB evocation than Tribute - never strayed into trade dress infringement - trading happily.

Have to remember you're dabbling in blue chip investment territory which is probably why, I'm surmising, activity is focused here rather than the MR2 based modern style offerings. It's like the family silver... which is why I had my car debadged pronto after buying.

Mick O'Malley 2nd June 2020 07:15

How dare you...
 
Caterham invoked this when 'their' design was plagiarised.

It's a jungle.

Regards, Mick

Car photographer 4th June 2020 10:42

Hmm, interesting

Lucky@LeMans 4th June 2020 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick O'Malley (Post 104369)
Caterham invoked this when 'their' design was plagiarised.

It's a jungle.

Regards, Mick

The 7's that emerged after were all similar but very slightly different. Must have been different enough in the eyes of the rule makers to be deemed ok.
Not sure what happened with the Cobra replica scene as I think Shelby tried the same thing but failed.

Paul L 4th June 2020 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans (Post 104387)
Not sure what happened with the Cobra replica scene as I think Shelby tried the same thing but failed.

See my Post #26 above, the video is all about that.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Munky 11th July 2020 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 104366)
It is a bit of a long story and based on American law, but this is a great insight into this sort of thing.

Key points seemed to be you have to defend the trade mark and some parts of a car are technical and not covered (e.g. flared wheel arches).

https://www.facebook.com/factoryfive...164897704/?t=1

That was really interesting. Especially the Crossley part with the Co-bra name.
Thanks for posting.

Mitchelkitman 11th July 2020 18:18

I saw (on MSN news if we can believe it) that Ferrari have lost a case for retaining their rights to the 250 GTO 'shape' as they haven't produced a vehicle - It seems they can produce scale models, as they have been actively selling them! All still looks a bit questionable IMHO.


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