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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #21  
Old 9th November 2011, 00:03
timbo timbo is offline
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Had a similar experience trying to remove a Metro server in a scrapyard - the scrappie became increasingly colourful with his language
Still, we got it out in the end...
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  #22  
Old 9th November 2011, 00:50
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Grey V8 Pete Grey V8 Pete is offline
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Mike. I suspect that there may be an avalanche of Marlineers interested in this upgrade. I certainly am for my disc/ disc Hunter. Keep the info coming please. You could even manufacture and sell an adaptor kit of parts for us?
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  #23  
Old 9th November 2011, 09:07
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GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
The steel backplate is made from 6mm mild steel, and turned out on a very old lathe.
I assume this is the adaptor plate between the servo and the master cylinder? Looks as if you've cut a rebate for the sealing o-ring into it...
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  #24  
Old 9th November 2011, 09:19
Mike Mike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
I have begun the process of making adaptors to allow me to fit the Dual 7" servo:



The steel backplate is made from 6mm mild steel, and turned out on a very old lathe.
Rally Design supply a threaded yoke - 3/8" UNF: 8 delivered
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...ducts_id=14609

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  #25  
Old 9th November 2011, 09:50
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Or CBS do one for 6.60 inc VAT

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/M..._Clevis_CLEVIS

5/16 UNF thread though.

[Edit] - aha! must read the thread properly. 8 delivered is cheaper!
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  #26  
Old 9th November 2011, 09:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
I assume this is the adaptor plate between the servo and the master cylinder? Looks as if you've cut a rebate for the sealing o-ring into it...
For anyone interested:

I am not sure whether the Dual servo requires a seal to be maintained between the servo and the master cylinder. The Metro unit definitely does, but the Dual probably does not.
I have made this back plate as a trial for testing, and will deliberately leave a leak to confirm whether the seal is necessary or not.



This photo shows the exposed chamber of the Metro, whereas the Dual clearly has a sealed chamber.


Jason, and anyone interested
I know you are attending metal work classes, so you could make a back plate.
Dimensions are:
Plate - I chose 6mm mild steel: 5mm would be OK
Outer diameter: 108mm nominal
Inner diameter : 40mm for my Sierra master cylinder: generally to suit your own master cylinder
Recess diameter : - if required +5mm on diameter
Recess depth : 1.5mm when using 6mm plate
A cut out will be required for the vacuum elbow : drill 30mm diameter offset centre from perimeter approximately 5mm

Holes for servo fixings :2 x 10mm dia. on 87mm PCD
Studs for master cylinder : M8 x 20mm projection for my Sierra master cylinder, but generally to suit your master cylinder
Offset of servo holes to master cylinder studs : for my Sierra master cylinder approximately 75 degrees, generally to suit your own master cylinder

You may require a spacer between the servo output push-rod and the master cylinder : my Sierra one will require approximately +6mm
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  #27  
Old 9th November 2011, 10:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Or CBS do one for 6.60 inc VAT

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/M..._Clevis_CLEVIS

5/16 UNF thread though.

[Edit] - aha! must read the thread properly. 8 delivered is cheaper!
And it has to be a 3/8" UNF !
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  #28  
Old 9th November 2011, 11:08
Mike Mike is offline
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Jason

If I make this back plate to suit your BMW master cylinder and buy the adjustable clevis pin, are you up for testing it? - I can deliver it all to Northampton on my travels.

The only sticking point could be whether your brake pipes can move 2" further? Though I seem to remember you have used flexible pipes, so this should not pose a problem.
There appears to be quite a lot of interest in this, so you'll be doing all of us a favour, as I will not get my car on the road for several months yet.
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  #29  
Old 9th November 2011, 11:30
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Sure - why not. I don't think there'll be an issue with by brake hoses... Not sure about the fluid feed lines from my remote resevoir. But I can get some more and rig up some longer lines during the test.
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  #30  
Old 9th November 2011, 12:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Sure - why not. I don't think there'll be an issue with by brake hoses... Not sure about the fluid feed lines from my remote resevoir. But I can get some more and rig up some longer lines during the test.
Good man
What is the hole size for the studs to secure the master cylinder?
What is the centre to centre dimension of the holes
What is the thickness of the master cylinder mounting plate? (to determine stud length)
Relative to the vertical, what is the degree of rotation for the centre line of the studs? - from your website it looks around 30 degrees. As you have a remote reservoir, I guess this is not too critical within +/- 5 degrees?
What is the diameter of the male part of the master cylinder which enters the servo?
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  #31  
Old 9th November 2011, 12:43
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I'll do some measuring tonight when I get in from work.

I will tell you that it's not a BMW master cylinder as far as I can tell, as I purchased it from Marlin. It's also mounted to the Metro servo without a mounting plate / adaptor, so the stud dimensions / pcd is as per the metro part.

I don't think it matter too much about the degree of rotation. What it is at the moment is as it fell from mounting the servo in the best degree of rotation to allow easy rounting of the vac hose and to keep the low pressure fluid entry ports relatively topside.
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  #32  
Old 9th November 2011, 12:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
I'll do some measuring tonight when I get in from work.

I will tell you that it's not a BMW master cylinder as far as I can tell, as I purchased it from Marlin. It's also mounted to the Metro servo without a mounting plate / adaptor, so the stud dimensions / pcd is as per the metro part.

I don't think it matter too much about the degree of rotation. What it is at the moment is as it fell from mounting the servo in the best degree of rotation to allow easy rounting of the vac hose and to keep the low pressure fluid entry ports relatively topside.
Jason
I've had a look on your website, and I'm sure it is a Ford master cylinder.
I can get the studs sorted out from the metro servo. I just need to be sure the male part of your master cylinder will go through the hole I have already made.

Did you have to make a spacer between the servo output rod and the master cylinder?
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  #33  
Old 9th November 2011, 13:08
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Yes - can't remember how big though... I believe I followed Robin's schematic. Hang on...

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/martinclan/images/spacer.gif

One of them!
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  #34  
Old 9th November 2011, 17:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Yes - can't remember how big though... I believe I followed Robin's schematic. Hang on...

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/martinclan/images/spacer.gif

One of them!
Great.
The Dual has an adjustable output rod, so can compensate for the 6mm spacer, making it a direct swap.



I have ordered the adjustable 5/8" UNF clasp, so this should adjust the pedal height.

The prototype adaptor plate is now made:



And fits:






The adaptor angle has been set to allow my own master cylinder to attach vertically, as I am fitting the standard Ford Sierra reservoir directly to the master cylinder.
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  #35  
Old 9th November 2011, 18:18
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Cor, you're keen.

Here's some more info:



Adaptor pin / sleeve, as per Martin's diagram (10mm OD, 8mm ID, 2mm 45deg chamfer, 20mm overall length)



Casting number on the cylinder. No idea if it's of any use



Pic of the stepped nature of the servo end of the master cylinder. The larger portion is 40.5mm in diameter, the smaller 36.3mm in diameter. It's the larger of the two steps that creates the seal between the servo and the cylinder. The mounting holes are 8.5mm diameter, and have PCD of 70mm



The cylinder from the end looking back, showing the layout of the high pressure brake hoses (stainless) and the low pressure feeds. The studs are at 25 degrees from the vertical

Do you need anything else?
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  #36  
Old 9th November 2011, 18:45
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Hi Jason

I had the day off today and am quite pleased with the prototype adaptor, though I'll have to make a minor modification to the angle of rotation for the master cylinder, and then it should be OK.

I just hope when you test it you feel some real benefit!!

Just looking at your photos I may have a problem with the rotation of the master cylinder as it may cause your pipework to foul the side panels - you may need to test the brakes with the side panels off!

All the rest I think will be ok.

I have trial fitted the whole arrangement in my Cabrio, and apart from not getting the angle of rotation exact - it is more critical in my Cabrio as I have the standard reservoir mounted directly to the master cylinder, it fits much the same as the Metro version.





I have not achieved the exact angle of rotation to ensure the reservoir is vertical. This will prevent the bonnet closing, so the final design will need to err towards the engine.
Otherwise looking good!!!!

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  #37  
Old 10th November 2011, 08:54
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Jason

I think we are now good to go. You will need to fettle the servo hole mounts in the pedal box, as the stud centres are 85mm compared to the Metro at 90mm. My holes were fairly large anyway, so it required very little alteration.
Then as you say the only other issue could be the reservoir feed pipe length?

Can you PM me your Mobile & address please?
Mike
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  #38  
Old 10th November 2011, 09:19
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PM sent.

I think I can get away with the lines I have, If I make a gash bracket to move the res foward into the engine bay... I'll have to see.

The only issue with that is how much slack I have on the line feeding the clutch master cylinder as my res feeds both clutch and brakes.
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  #39  
Old 10th November 2011, 11:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
PM sent.

I think I can get away with the lines I have, If I make a gash bracket to move the res foward into the engine bay... I'll have to see.

The only issue with that is how much slack I have on the line feeding the clutch master cylinder as my res feeds both clutch and brakes.
Ok, good.

The bad news: I have received the clevis pin in the post this morning but it is too short for my set up.



One other small issue may be the size of the pin through the clevis - it is 3/8" too. Not sure what Marlin supplied on their extender arrangement, as I threw it away. My pedal has a 3/8" hole so not a problem for my Cabrio, but others may need to consider this.

The good news: I've found a supplier close to our Birmingham offices so hope to collect a longer version tomorrow.
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  #40  
Old 10th November 2011, 22:50
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It was a long time ago but I think the Sportster brake pedal has an 8mm bolt.

I found this very old picture which may help you understand the dimensions?


Trial fitting brake servo on pedal box by marlinpeter, on Flickr
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