Deon Dino 246 GTS - New Engine....! - Page 2

rossnzwpi · #21 18th October 2009, 02:42

Hi,
"The best way I can see is to weld up the one offending holes and then re-drill and re-tap the five new holes to suit the wheels. Spigot ring can be made to suit so the wheel sit centrally on the hub."

that's right - going from 4 stud to 5 stud is a clash geometrically speaking. Your option of welding up the original holes then redrilling was tried by a friend of mine without any known problems - but I guess you'd have to know what you were doing with respect to strength/temper etc. Dino wheels were originally a lightweight aluminium / magnesium alloy with the brand name electron. Of course if you are going from a 4 stud 108 pcd wheel to a 5 stud 108 pcd then one stud / hole can remain and the other 4 be redrilled - this solves the geometry problem! Volvo, Ford, Peugeot, etc used this PCD. Of course you need to check the structure of the centre of the wheel - no redrilling is recommended if there isn't a thick area for the new holes. I'm not an engineer so don't just take my word for it but I have seen many many redrilled wheels driving around. If you look back at my earlier posts you'll see a fuller discussion of this
Cheers
Ross

thecarbuilder246 · #22 20th October 2009, 10:42

hi-help!!
regarding wheels and pcd-does anyone know the correct wheel nut size used on the fiat and lancia hubs.I think it is m12 x 1.0 but can anyone confirm this before I a set of taps. ian

rossnzwpi · #23 22nd October 2009, 23:28

Hi, you'll note the wheels on this Dino replica on Youtube are apparently genuine but have 4 bolts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYnB...eature=related

it was on Ebay a few months ago but I don't know any more about it

Cheers
Ross

thecarbuilder246 · #24 23rd October 2009, 12:50

hi
yes your right. I spoke with this guy when this was for sale on ebay.The wheels were genuine dino cromodora that he had welded up and the re drilled to suit the hubs, and the chrome wheel centers were also altered to fit.
He said it cost a small fortune as the wheels are magnesium and need a specialist welder,and also the wheel centers being stainless also need welding and re machining.
I don't think it looks right with 4 bolts either.
ian

dino_gt · #25 23rd October 2009, 21:38

wouldn´t it be easier to redrill the hubs into 5x108 pcd?....108 is a big diameter, so the new holes could be outside the previous ones. you just need enough space in the hub for such diameter....

rossnzwpi · #26 7th November 2009, 06:06

Hi, "redrill the hubs"
therein lies the problem. A 4x98 PCD Fiat/Lancia hub cannot be redrilled to 5 stud - any 4 to 5 stud won't work unless they are the same PCD, allowing one hole/stud to be used in the new configuration - e.g. 4x108 to 5x108. So even if there is enough diameter in the hub itself, which is doubtful, the geometry just doesn't allow it. 5mm wider radius isn't even the width of the hole/stud. Draw it on paper and you'll see what I mean. Maybe an Alfa 166 hub and shafts could be adapted for the rear (same as Dino wheel). A Fiat Dino or Fiat 2300 hub could be fitted on the front easily.

dino_gt · #27 7th November 2009, 08:18

what if you re-fill the previous holes and then make the new ones in 108 mm pcd?...is that impossible?...someone has told me it´s possible, but maybe expensive...you could also use a 5 stud hub from another car, but retaining your hub-carriers/uprights....

rossnzwpi · #28 7th November 2009, 21:15

Hi, I guess welding up the 4 stud holes then redrilling in 5 stud configuration is an option if it doesn't affect strength, balance and there is enough diameter in the hub face. Do take a look at the back of the hub face too - most modern ones have thick and thin parts to get lowest possible weight. You wouldn't want a stud in a part that was thin!
Swapping the whole hub is an option and relatively easy when the hub doesn't include a splined hole for the drive shafts. Here is a link to photos and description of how someone put a bigger 5 stud hub from a Mazda RX7 in place of a smaller 4 stud hub on a Mazda MX5 (Miata). This was on the front so no drive shafts involved.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2308228/4

As far as I know the Alfa 166 has the same PCD and centre bore as a Dino wheel. (Same company after all!) Dino wheels were the same on Fiat Dino and "Ferrari" Dino 246 GTs. Of course the Alfa 166 is a front wheel drive car so maybe it's rear hub could go on the front of a Deon with a little modification. I guess a front one with drive shafts could be adapted to the rear.

Failing this you might have more luck by contacting Gerry Hawkridge of Hawk cars. He makes Stratos replicas (which originally had the Lancia Beta bits that the Deon used) He makes 5 stud conversion kits - in 5x98 and , I think, 5 x 108. He also used to make Dino replica parts.

enquiries@hawkcars.co.uk (5 stud kit is about GBP527+VAT)

Cheers
Ross

rossnzwpi · #29 8th November 2009, 16:59

Hi, I found some pictures of a project where someone changed stud numbers and PCD by welding and redrilling. In this case it was turning a Mazda RX7 five stud hub to a 4 stud Mazda MX5. It involved welding up the holes and the irregularities on the RX7 hub (they aren't circular - in order to save weight). New holes were drilled and the whole lot turned on a lathe:

http://billwilner.myphotoalbum.com/v...album07&page=1