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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #1  
Old 14th May 2015, 21:06
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Default IVA Application

Hi all,

I'm filling out my IVA application and there are one or two questions I'm not sure on so looking for some advice from recent successful builders.

1. Type of body - I've put 'Roadster'
2. Colour - I've put multi coloured and don't think they can argue with that
3. Max design road speed - The 325 E36 top speed was 146mph. I would not think either the car or occupants will be too happy at that speed but what's the best estimate to go with. My tyres are V rated so ok there (149mph) and the speedo goes to 150 but will this affect the brake test or is that just done on the weight?
4. Design Weights - Axle 1, Axle 2, gross, train, towable mass. I now know the actual kerb weights but that's not the same thing
5. Build evidence. I was going to submit the receipts for my donor plus modules 1-3. Maybe also a 4-5 photos of various stages (that really prove nothing)

My kerb weights (but 1/2 tank of fuel) came out as axle 1=402kg, axle 2 = 478 kg and total = 880kg. At some point in the past I wrote down 550, 700 and 1250 for the design weights but can't find any evidence of where I got that from.

Any advice on what others have entered and had no problems with is gratefully received.

I'm also after any other advice at this point. Things I'm a bit worried about
- self centering. I've set castor to max+ and have 2ish degrees neg camber. Toe is a bit on the vague side. The rear is what it is though I plan on reducing the currently rather extreme neg camber using the eccentric bolts. My turning circle is shocking due to my limiters but as I'm not driving to the test I can leave that till another day (I assume).
- Brake servo hose. Mine is silicone. My MOT man said he'd have no problem with it as it was all done up tight but was not sure if the IVA man would perceive a chaffing risk. What have others used, braided fuel hose?
- Coolant leak. my 0 pressure rad cap has a habit of spitting half a cup full of coolant out during warm up but I think this is because the seal is not well bedded in. The main system is on a 2 bar cap on the expansion tank and the one on the rad is there just to plug a hole that's not being used for its intended purpose. Once hot it settles down. If this happens on the test will I just get a raised eyebrow or be pointed to the door. If it was oil, fuel or brake fluid I know the answer, but a little coolant...
- front braided brake hoses. Mine float free between the chassis and caliper and are not clipped to the wishbone. I think this is actually less likely to chaff than forcing it to run in some sort of sleeve, but it's not my opinion that counts in this case

Thanks
Ian
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  #2  
Old 14th May 2015, 22:30
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Its been a few years and it was SVA for me so things may have changed, but here's what I remember:

1) Looks right
2) I put beige / silver on mine
3) As long as stated top speed is less than the tyre rating you're OK - what it says on the speedo is not taken into account
4) not sure on this one been a while now, rear is heavier than the front
5) I sent donor car invoice, plus kit and various bits bought

Self centre - double check you have the top wish bones in the right way up. I had this and it didn't self centre well. I had castor set to more washers at the back and negative camber. Toe in I drove it around a few times and adjusted until it felt right.

I think mine got a bit hot during the test, from what I remember we just let it cool down for a bit (solved this later with a massive ali rad and 16" fan - now it doesn't bubble any more!)

If there's any question over the brake pipes make sure you have a bit of hose and some zip ties with you - you can always sort it out there an then if needed.
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Old 15th May 2015, 06:26
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Those weights sound ok. It's the 'design weight' and becomes the technically legal max weight. It's what I used for Vikki, and she only weighs about 890kg.

http://www.greatoldone.co.uk/blog/20...elle-sole.html

http://www.greatoldone.co.uk/blog/20...a-was-won.html

Don't use braided fuel line on the brake servo... The fluid will perish it if you're talking about the low pressure feeds to the master, or will collapse if you mean the vac hose.
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Old 15th May 2015, 06:54
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Goo, the first link isn't working...
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  #5  
Old 15th May 2015, 18:55
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Thanks for the feedback

Patrick, I think the plan of having the bit of pipe with some cable ties is the best approach as it's quick to rectify if there is a problem. Mike said he also went with beige/silver so I will follow this example.

Goo, it may have been one of your posts or blog I read those weights from originally then. The brake hose I'm referring to is the vacuum line from the manifold to the servo. By braided fuel hose I mean the tough as old boots injection stuff rather than that floppy stuff some places sell for carb'd engines. I think for now I'll just make sure it's as well clipped in as possible so there's no risk of chaffing anyway. The silicone I have is sold as vacuum hose but I just noticed everyone else seems to have used some sort of rubber hose.

From looking at this page it looks like train weight doesn't apply as that's for tractor/trailer units. I guess same can be said for towing weight as there is no tow bar?
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained
It looks like Goo's IVA certificate doesn't have those values so I'll just leave blank.

Will get it in the post tomorrow and then panic about all the little things I may have forgotten. Need to pull my finger out though or I'll loose the summer again.

Thanks
Ian
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Old 16th May 2015, 03:55
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Link fixed
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  #7  
Old 16th May 2015, 08:42
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I also registered mine as beige/silver until is was painted.

I clipped my front brake lines to the wishbones with a zip tie and some fuel hose like this....

off side - left lock by marlinpeter, on Flickr

(Note: this pic was taken before all the nut covers, etc were fitted)

I think your vacuum hose should be fine if you clip it where it rubs.

Self centering on the Sportster is a bit odd (due to the steering arm ackerman angles being wrong after shortening the distance to the diff). I found about 2 degrees toe out to work but don't ask me why. Also, pumping your front tyres up to about 35psi helps.

On your radiater cap issue, why not just seal the radiator cap with something like RTV silicone? Any pressure should be taken up by your expansion tank and in extreme cases its pressure cap.
BTW, do you have plans for louvres in your bonnets as I think your engine will get very hot with none in the top or sides?

Don't forget to check the height of your headlamps as its a bit marginal. (just wind up your suspension if too low )

Good luck and as others have said, take lots of tools and bits and pieces as they will let you fix things on the day.

....Peter

Last edited by peterux; 16th May 2015 at 09:35.. Reason: spelling
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Old 16th May 2015, 18:17
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Hi Peter, yes that brake clipping approach is what I planned. The problem is my hoses are E36 off the shelf rather than Marlin ones so just going by other peoples photos, they don't seem to have quite as much slack. My concern is that tying them to the wishbone is actually less safe (stretch or kink) than leaving them floating in mid air. I think I'll rock up with this solution in my back pocket and see how it goes on the day.

I'll give the 2 degrees toe out a shot. At the moment toe is all over the place. It looks ok but these things are so subtle. there definitely seems to be some scrubbing on full lock so something's not right. I noticed that Marlin recommend ~18psi for the tyres which seems very low as I'm used to 40ish on my Bimmers. Won't hurt to have them over inflated for the test though.

I've just given the tabs on my rad cap a tweak but was also thinking along the RTV line too.

Vacuum line has been cable tied to the swirl pot just to stop it vibrating. not sure if that will be ok but there's nothing else in the area to clip to.

Do you know if the height measurements on the lights is to the base, top or centre? I measured when fitting everything based on the centres but that may have been the wrong thing to do. It wouldn't hurt to raise the ride height as I was grounding out on the CAT at my mini MOT the other day. The only worry then is the rear wheel arch height being to much above the wheel centre line. So many variables to get wrong.

The docs and check are in the post now so I spent the afternoon updating my to do list and rectifying a few things I had in the back of my mind. I don't believe there's anything I can't handle in the time it will take to get an appointment. I think I just have to give it a shot now and at least if I fail, there will be a definite list of things to fix.

cheers
Ian
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Old 16th May 2015, 20:10
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Brake hoses should be ok as lomg as they are not able to touch anything in all positions of the suspension and steering. In my experience they check tnisvery carefully.

Height is to centre of lights. Remember if you drive to the test centre the suspension may settle a bit.

To get my steering to self centre I had to resort to a couple of degrees of posive camber plus very sloght toe out.

Good luck. Cheers Robin
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Old 16th May 2015, 20:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morris View Post
Hi Peter, yes that brake clipping approach is what I planned. The problem is my hoses are E36 off the shelf rather than Marlin ones so just going by other peoples photos, they don't seem to have quite as much slack. My concern is that tying them to the wishbone is actually less safe (stretch or kink) than leaving them floating in mid air. I think I'll rock up with this solution in my back pocket and see how it goes on the day.

I'll give the 2 degrees toe out a shot. At the moment toe is all over the place. It looks ok but these things are so subtle. there definitely seems to be some scrubbing on full lock so something's not right. I noticed that Marlin recommend ~18psi for the tyres which seems very low as I'm used to 40ish on my Bimmers. Won't hurt to have them over inflated for the test though.

I've just given the tabs on my rad cap a tweak but was also thinking along the RTV line too.

Vacuum line has been cable tied to the swirl pot just to stop it vibrating. not sure if that will be ok but there's nothing else in the area to clip to.

Do you know if the height measurements on the lights is to the base, top or centre? I measured when fitting everything based on the centres but that may have been the wrong thing to do. It wouldn't hurt to raise the ride height as I was grounding out on the CAT at my mini MOT the other day. The only worry then is the rear wheel arch height being to much above the wheel centre line. So many variables to get wrong.

The docs and check are in the post now so I spent the afternoon updating my to do list and rectifying a few things I had in the back of my mind. I don't believe there's anything I can't handle in the time it will take to get an appointment. I think I just have to give it a shot now and at least if I fail, there will be a definite list of things to fix.

cheers
Ian
Your brake lines sound Ok as they are.
IIRC I was normally running my tyres at about 20 psi.
I've not checked the latest IVA manual but this photo suggests at the time of my test I was worrying about the bottom edge of the headlights....
(But Robin may be correct)

Height adjusted by marlinpeter, on Flickr

keep us posted....

...peter

Last edited by peterux; 16th May 2015 at 20:15.. Reason: additional comment
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Old 16th May 2015, 21:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
I've not checked the latest IVA manual but this photo suggests at the time of my test I was worrying about the bottom edge of the headlights....
(But Robin may be correct)

Height adjusted by marlinpeter, on Flickr

...peter
I can't recall what the SVA manual said but current IVA manual says....

Lamp/reflector vertical position is measured from the ground:
In the case of the minimum height to the lower edge of the illuminated area (reflective surface on a reflector).
In the case of a Dipped Beam headlamp the minimum height will be measured to the apparent trace of the beam cut-off on the lens. If this point cannot be determined then you will take the lower edge of the illuminated area.


So a little subjective, depending on the inspectors opinion.
Personally, if you can, I'd set the bottom edge to be 500mm from the ground and take your 'c' spanner with you, just in case.
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Old 17th May 2015, 09:01
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I just checked and the bottom of my head lamps are 520mm from the ground so I should have no problems either way. It may be that with the change in style of the shock top mount and hence lamp mount on the E36-E39 based cars, the overall height was raised anyway. My steering arms are horizontal and the bottom wishbones slope ever so slightly down and out from the chassis so that's correct based on previous advice.
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Old 19th May 2015, 17:07
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well, DVSA have confirmed receipt and acceptance of my IVA application. There's no going back now. Unfortunately every time I tick something off my To Do list, new items pop on the bottom. At least it will focus my mind and stop me from getting distracted.

I've been reading up on DIY wheel alignment and it seems pretty straight forward with the sticks and string method. My only concern now is whether I have enough thread on the end of my steering rods to achieve any real toe out
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Old 19th May 2015, 20:08
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Sticks and string work fine. One trick I learnt is to get 4 vinyl tiles and make 2 sandwiches with a thin film of grease between. Stand the front tyres on the two sandwiches and you can then turn and adjust the steering without the resistance of the tyres on the floor. It works very well!

Robin
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Old 19th May 2015, 20:38
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Quote:
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Unfortunately every time I tick something off my To Do list, new items pop on the bottom.
That's quite normal. I was still fettling in my garage the night before my SVA test
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Old 19th May 2015, 21:14
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I've heard about the tiles and grease trick though the web page I read said to use ceramic floor tiles. That struck me as a good way to just destroy a pair of tiles. vinyl makes much more sense.

One piece of advice I can give is to remember to put nylocs on the pedal box mounting bolts that hold the front section on before building the rest of the car. It just took me 20 minutes and taking the steering wheel off just to swap the easiest one out with my wife holding a spanner on the other end of the bolt. I think I'm going to have take the accelerator pedal out to do the right hand pair . good news is I think that's the only set I forgot about.

I also discovered my 'new' exhaust mount rubbers were probably new old stock as they have started perishing quite badly over the winter. New ones in the post but this kind of thing is a little frustrating.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 16:51
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I set up my wheel alignment rig today with thin nylon line and some 20mm round electrical conduit either end to hold the line level with the hub centres on all four wheels. My previous eyeballing attempt at getting slight toe out was actually pretty much what I'd aimed at and surprisingly close to equal both sides. A few further adjustments got me to 1 degree toe out either side which is a difference of 8mm between the front and rear of my 15" wheels. I don't really have anywhere (safe) to test self centring as my road is very narrow and you need to pick up a little speed to get it to work so I'm going to just leave as is and hope I have a helpful examiner as Jason did who'll let me make a minor adjustment on the day.

My rear wheels were both showing toe out too which is a no-no according to the Marlin advice. I've got 0.3 degrees (3mm difference) on the near side and 0.7 degrees (6mm difference) on the offside. From some rough calculations I need to find 3mm and 6mm of movement inwards at the rear trailing arm bush on either side just to pull the wheels slightly in past parallel. Marlin recommend 3mm to 5mm toe in on the rear. Question is, is this total toe or each side as I'm going to struggle given there is only one washer currently packing out my bushes on the inside, either side so not much room to play with. I don't think this is really an issue for IVA so I'm not going to start mucking around with it now.

I've also made good progress on my snagging list and now have no known issues. I just have to get the IVA manual up on a laptop in the garage and start working my way through it double checking everything in sequence.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 17:22
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Ian
It would be a good idea to trailer/tow your Sportster to an empty carpark if you can to test the self centreing.
With my initial set up, I had the opposite of self centreing - after 3/4 lock the wheels would self turn into full lock! - it was then a fight to physically turn the steering wheel to get the steering back to straight.

I really struggled with the Ford/Cabrio suspension to get any degree of self centreing - I still do not have much - it is better on one side than the other, and did not always appear to respond to changes in the way I expected.
My examiner said he did not expect a lot of self centering, but wanted to make sure it did not wind itself up ....... (I know why!).

Based on my experience I would not recommend trying to resolve this issue on test day, under pressure, and with limited time.

Of course you have the BMW/Sportster set up which is different, and there may be other voices who will tell you it is not so bad with the Sportster, and that you'll be fine to experiment with your suspension set up on the big day?

Mike


Quote:
Originally Posted by morris View Post
I set up my wheel alignment rig today with thin nylon line and some 20mm round electrical conduit either end to hold the line level with the hub centres on all four wheels. My previous eyeballing attempt at getting slight toe out was actually pretty much what I'd aimed at and surprisingly close to equal both sides. A few further adjustments got me to 1 degree toe out either side which is a difference of 8mm between the front and rear of my 15" wheels. I don't really have anywhere (safe) to test self centring as my road is very narrow and you need to pick up a little speed to get it to work so I'm going to just leave as is and hope I have a helpful examiner as Jason did who'll let me make a minor adjustment on the day.

My rear wheels were both showing toe out too which is a no-no according to the Marlin advice. I've got 0.3 degrees (3mm difference) on the near side and 0.7 degrees (6mm difference) on the offside. From some rough calculations I need to find 3mm and 6mm of movement inwards at the rear trailing arm bush on either side just to pull the wheels slightly in past parallel. Marlin recommend 3mm to 5mm toe in on the rear. Question is, is this total toe or each side as I'm going to struggle given there is only one washer currently packing out my bushes on the inside, either side so not much room to play with. I don't think this is really an issue for IVA so I'm not going to start mucking around with it now.

I've also made good progress on my snagging list and now have no known issues. I just have to get the IVA manual up on a laptop in the garage and start working my way through it double checking everything in sequence.
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Old 24th May 2015, 08:20
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Hi Mike, yeah I get where you're coming from. I've a similar problem with the speedo. I've calibrated it based on the trigger wheel in the diff, diff ratio plus wheel circumference but have no way to prove if it is correct. The difference there is if it under/over reads, you can easily and accurately adjust on the fly.

I'll have to keep thinking where I can take it to test. Trouble is, where I live, most open spaces are taken up with sheep, cows or heather. Large empty car parks are not easy to come by.
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Old 24th May 2015, 08:30
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I used a GPS to test my speedo on the way to/from the MOT I had done before the big test.
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