Build from Scratch (i.e., Plans) instead of Kit?

[Alfalfameister]

I'm a complete newbie, and I don't know where to start, but I know what stuff I want (sort of...)

1. I cannot buy kits per se, because it would still be very expensive for me (Philippines, being 3rd world country and all), so I would like to build a car from scratch. While it is not feasible to import kits (price of kit as well as price of shipping), I can afford PLANS.

2. Labor being (very) cheap here (minimum wage is... 50 US cents/hour), there are lots of craftsmen who work for very cheap, so I can actually contract the work out to them... so I need pretty detailed plans.

3. The car I'm envisioning of having is a car I can take to the track (yet road worthy... road LEGAL is pretty easy in this country ). It has to be very light, and has great racetrack performance. I actually saw a WESTFIELD here, and it was fantastic! I particularly like the performance (power to weight ratio, handling) of the Westfield XTR series.

4. I don't need the car to look like a Westfield (but wouldn't mind it either), as my main concern is on-track performance (without being too low that I can't take it to the streets anymore, for instance). It could look like a Lamborghini, Ferrari, Locost, whatever (though I like Ultima Cars Can-Am design).... So I guess it has to be light so power-to-weight ratio is excellent, and that handling is excellent.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Downloadable (even if it has to be purchased) plans or something so I can build from scratch (i.e., not having to buy kits)?

Thanks in advance!

--Alf



EDIT: Difficulty not an issue. I have access to a race car tuner, welder, suspension specialist, etc... (at 3rd world prices, but developed-country quality).


ANOTHER OPTION I HAVE is to buy a chassis only. For instance, i saw a kit car that had a 17 build stage -- I figured, if I had the chassis already and the build manual, maybe I can do the rest on my own? Any suggestions?

[LexSport]

I'd suggest you pick up Ron Champion's book that launched a thousand locosts:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...329482-0268951

Should give you a few ideas to be starting with.

Darran

[Ex-Biker]

Just beat me Darran.

Here's the ISBN in case you want to order it locally:
Build your own Sports Car - ISBN: 1 85960 636 9


Haynes also do:

Car Builders Manual - ISBN: 1 85960 646 6

Their website is: www.haynes.co.uk

[Alfalfameister]

Ron Champion's book is already being ordered...

But after a few days of thinking about it, I'm now not too hot on how the Locost looks (and all other Lotus 7s -- no offense to Lotus 7 lovers out there).

I really don't mind since I want to build a track car (that I can drive from time to time on the road), but if there are plans on the internet for sale that look like, say...

Turner Automotive's Coram
Ultima Cars Can-Am
Dynamic Performance Attack
even Westfield's XTR

(i.e., not Sevenesque looking cars)

...

Perhaps with information gleaned from Ron Champion's books (as well as other books like Valkenburgh's books, Herb Adams Chassis Engineering, Fred Puhns How to Make Your Car Handle, etc), do you think I can later on (as a second project perhaps) gain experience to end up designing my own chassis so I can make it look like any of the above?

Anyway, I ask too many questions... I'll wait for the arrival of Ron's book (4 to 6 weeks, I'm told), then ask more questions later.

Thanks for all your help!

[LexSport]

To my mind, not all 7s are made equal. There are some 7s that look much better than others.

An alternative that you might want to look into is using the 7 chassis under a different body. Take a look at the Fisher Fury, SSC Stylus or Stuart Taylor Phoenix. As far as I know, these are all developments by Jeremy Phillips of his Striker 7 styled car with more aerodynamic bodywork. Once Sylva (JPs company) sold these projects off to other companies, they've then themselves developed the cars further - the Fury is well known in the UK for it's performance on track winning the Road Going Bike championship and others many times.

The reason I'm able to reel all this off is I started off getting into the kit car arena by buying Ron Champion's book (twice in fact! ), then realised there were better looking cars out there. Went to a kit car show to decide between the Fury and the Phoenix and ended up buying a GTM Libra kit last weekend.

[Ferg]

..and what a wise decision if I may be so bold.

[Ex-Biker]

Darran

I was just reading Alfalfameister's reply about the book.

Thinking, why not try using a similar chassis . . . . . . . Well then I read you have already posted it!

Great Minds, me thinks.


Alfalfameister

Lexsport's suggestion is basically the next step after the '7' locost. I wouldn't consider the Ultima idea unless you have designed and built other cars before.
The locost is an excellent handling car and with a more modern body still looks very nice.

As for the body. You might have to learn how to manufacture a glass fibre shell. Not easy, and you'll probably want a book to start with?

[Alfalfameister]

First of all, my sincere thanks to all the replies. They have been helpful, and have given me a lot of insight.

A different looking body on a Locost type chassis is perhaps the best approach for me right now. The only reason the Sevenesque type body doesn't appeal to me that much (because it still DOES appeal to me) is that:

Here in the Philippines, we don't see too many of that type of car (in fact, there are none). That's not to say that I don't want my car to be different, though. But it's just too... er... boxy and...British (heh heh. NO OFFENSE of course to the Brits).

I really like what I saw in Fisher Fury, and Stuart Taylor, and the SSC... THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL BEASTS INDEED!!!

(And those ULTIMA cars are drop-dead gorgeous!)

But the costs are, well, for someone in this country, way too much. If you were to calculate using Minimum Wage Salaries, if a guy were to spend on nothing else (food, clothing, shelter), it would take him 27 years to pay for the SSC. While I'm not a minimum wage worker, that is still out of my price range.

Which is why I'm waiting for Ron's book, because trying to fabricate as much as possible here is my only option.

On the other hand, as I mentioned, labor is v.cheap here, so asking fiberglass craftsman, welders, etc to do the work while I supervise them is something well within the realm of possibility.

In fact, a business idea comes to mind (this is already OFF TOPIC):

Companies like that should just come here with their technicians/designers and have kits manufactured here instead. Filipinos speak good english, so communication won't be a big problem, and labor (while not as cheap as mainland china or vietnam) is still very cheap.

I would daresay that a company like Westfield/Fisher/GD Cars etc could send their people here, manufacture the stuff here (even assemble it here) and re-export it back to the UK and make it come out cheaper.

Anyway, back to topic, my thanks again to the replies here.

I am currently waiting for Ron Champion's book, and I'll probably order that Locost CD-ROM (forget what it is right now) for UK 15 or something.

--Alf

[Ex-Biker]

Alf

Another option might be to order a build manual from some one like Fisher (for the Fury).

This will cost about £15, but will give you a good insite into what is required when building such a car and might have enough pictures for you to get ideas on things needed to build the chassis over and above what Ron Champions book tells you.

[LexSport]

Originally Posted by Alfalfameister

But the costs are, well, for someone in this country, way too much. If you were to calculate using Minimum Wage Salaries, if a guy were to spend on nothing else (food, clothing, shelter), it would take him 27 years to pay for the SSC. While I'm not a minimum wage worker, that is still out of my price range.

Well as the chassis underneath all three of the cars linked to are pretty much straight from a 7, fabricating it all with the help of Ron Champion's book should just be "challenging" instead of "**censored** impossible"

Originally Posted by Alfalfameister

Companies like that should just come here with their technicians/designers and have kits manufactured here instead. Filipinos speak good english, so communication won't be a big problem, and labor (while not as cheap as mainland china or vietnam) is still very cheap.

I would daresay that a company like Westfield/Fisher/GD Cars etc could send their people here, manufacture the stuff here (even assemble it here) and re-export it back to the UK and make it come out cheaper.

Some companies are doing similar things already. RV Dynamics have moved to Sri Lanka for the cheaper labour costs to produce their cars.

[Dakkar]

Hi all,
I'm also in the Philippines, but unlike Alfalfmeister, I can afford a kit car. I am seeking something similar to a Tiffany or smaller 1930's looking neo-classic car, either convertable or hardtop. Unfortuantely, the Philippines' tariff on imported completed automobiles is so high that you almost pay for the car twice!! So, I will rely on one of the many Jeepney builders to do the assembly work for me. Like Alfalfmeister, I am a complete newbie, and frankly the internet isn't helping me much so far in finding a company who can sell and ship a body kit of that type. The closest I've found so far is Decorides.com, and I am still waiting to hear back from them.

My ideal "dream car" is the NemoMobile from the movie League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but I would settle for anything that looks even vaguely similar; the Tiffany is the only car that comes to mind.....

Any ideas as to who might be able to sell me such a kit?
~ Dakkar

[Fuoriserie]

How about a Rowfant ?

http://www.scampmotorcompany.co.uk/detailor.html

[Dakkar]

This is an interesting option - I have contacted the company for more photos, details, and pricing. THANKS!

Here's another cool link, from Australia:
http://www.deucecustoms.com.au/34tudor.html

[chrislandy]

Theres always a Burlington Arrow, the plans are only a few quid and was originally designed to be built from scratch...

[Ferg]

Yeah, and I built an Arrow so it can't be all that difficult......

[Lolo P-D]

Originally Posted by Dakkar

Hi all,
I'm also in the Philippines, but unlike Alfalfmeister, I can afford a kit car. I am seeking something similar to a Tiffany or smaller 1930's looking neo-classic car, either convertable or hardtop. Unfortuantely, the Philippines' tariff on imported completed automobiles is so high that you almost pay for the car twice!! So, I will rely on one of the many Jeepney builders to do the assembly work for me. Like Alfalfmeister, I am a complete newbie, and frankly the internet isn't helping me much so far in finding a company who can sell and ship a body kit of that type. The closest I've found so far is Decorides.com, and I am still waiting to hear back from them.

My ideal "dream car" is the NemoMobile from the movie League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, but I would settle for anything that looks even vaguely similar; the Tiffany is the only car that comes to mind.....

Any ideas as to who might be able to sell me such a kit?
~ Dakkar

Hi ....new member here so go easy on me.

Like Alfalfameister and Dakkar, I'm also based in the Philippines.

My choice is to build a Burlington SS from scratch...this means EVERYTHING.

As an English ex-pat this is not so much a financial decision, more of an availability one. I can't just wander down to my local scrap yard and pick up a Triumph Herald chassis, or Ford Escort axle. I live on a remote island province, so I have to think somewhat differently.

I want a TRADITIONAL British vintage sports car....something that NO-ONE else here as ever seen, let alone heard of. The Burlington with it's plywood body and welded box section chassis fits the bill perfectly.
But I need the flexibility to be able to use a Nissan engine and gearbox with a Ford axle and Mitsubishi suspension for example.

However....there is a big problem from the start. I've searched the web trying to discover if the plans are available to DOWNLOAD! I know you can (or at least could) buy a CD with them on, and I've seen them for sale as an A4 binder.
I don't want to tread on anybody's toes with copyright here....but can ANYBODY supply these and send as a simple email attachment, as a pdf file for example?
I'm happy to pay.....no problem. all I'm looking for is convenience!

I look forward to your responses.

[peterux]

A quick google came up with this link...

http://www.turn-the-crank.com/

have you tried this guy direct??

[Lolo P-D]

Originally Posted by peterux

A quick google came up with this link...

http://www.turn-the-crank.com/

have you tried this guy direct??

Yes I sent an email with a suggestion to make these plans convenient to customers by offering a download.
I realise that to scan 200 odd pages of A4 documents in high resolution is 4 or 5 days work, but if it opens up commercial possibilities, it must be worth the effort........well in my mind anyway!

I haven't received a reply yet to my email.

thanks for your response.

[Patton]

Burlington, I got a set of plans via turn-the -crank real back of a fag packet stuff also includes the chieftan a jeep type I've got an Arrow on my to do list but it's a long list, they my type of stuff alot of self fabrication..PAT