Gutted!

craig · #1 4th October 2006, 19:32

Had the car on the drive tonight and noticed it was not sitting right and guess what?? Springs are not just rubbing the wishbone like they were on the trolley but totally fouling it......Don't know what the answer is but when I was down the road a couple of weeks ago having a ride in Brians turbo I looked at his and the spring is miles away!

Someone mentioned on here to wait until engine in as it makes a big differance so I had 2 90kg lads stand on the chassis at the rear which just made the problem even worse as it creaked under the strain!

I'm seriously pi**ed off
Brians coming up to see my car tomorrow night (weather permiting) so will be able to make a direct comparison

alackofspeed · #2 4th October 2006, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig

Had the car on the drive tonight and noticed it was not sitting right and guess what?? Springs are not just rubbing the wishbone like they were on the trolley but totally fouling it......Don't know what the answer is but when I was down the road a couple of weeks ago having a ride in Brians turbo I looked at his and the spring is miles away!

Someone mentioned on here to wait until engine in as it makes a big differance so I had 2 90kg lads stand on the chassis at the rear which just made the problem even worse as it creaked under the strain!

I'm seriously pi**ed off
Brians coming up to see my car tomorrow night (weather permiting) so will be able to make a direct comparison

Craig, I'm sorry to learn of your problems. It seems that you, Jerry, Steve, and I are all suffering this problem. Steve and I have both spoken to Mark about this, and have not sucessfully resolved it. Mark offered replacement shorter springs with a 300lb rating (mine are 170 at present), but on my car at least, having looked at the problem further this is not a solution - instead of the wishbone hitting the spring it'll hit the adjustment collar. Even if the 300lb spring did resolve the clash, I DO NOT want to be limited to one spring length - the car is meant to be adjustable!!!!

By all means phone Mark, and tell him you're suffering exactly the same problem as John Dry (me). I'm p'ed off about my suspension, and my exhaust, which is an absolutely shocking fit, though I'm told there's nothing wrong with it..... so that's yet another item that's going to hold me back while I make a decent replacement.

Have you fitted your engine yet? The mounts supplied with the kit are pap - I've remade mine, and added a fourth mount (as per the Civic installation) to the rear of the engine / 'box.

Ex-Biker · #3 5th October 2006, 08:01

My springs are the same.

I'm considering using 1.9 springs (instead of 2.1), but haven't spoken to Mark or anyone yet on ratings or how this will effect the handling.

alackofspeed · #4 5th October 2006, 12:04

Unless I'm missing something, all our problems could be solved if we were supplied with new top front suspension wishbones, with the longitudal tube moved towards the wheel slightly. It would not take much, and in my case, there wouldn't be a problem with the displaced tube clashing with another component.

Surely as there are several of us with the same problem, Marlin will do something about it - it is an easy and cheap problem to remedy, and would certainly ease some of my frustration and ill feeling.

marlinturbo · #5 5th October 2006, 14:40

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2...pensionsa6.jpg

guys, just in case there is something missing here have a look at the picture of the model i did of the suspension area for Mark.

is the orientation of both the wishbones the same on your cars? the yellow lower one can be inserted both ways IIRC?

if this is so, i can post up dimensions of the locations of the suspension pick up points for u to check.

HTH.

John

Jerry (Honda engine builder) do u have this issue mate???

SDMC001 · #6 5th October 2006, 14:47

Craig

I am like John am very dissapointed to hear of the issue you have, same as ourselves. Like John I was fobbed off with the solution of shorter springs, initially I foolishly went along with it, but then though why should I accept second best. This is quite evidentally a serious design floor with the batch that was built early this year, and in an effort to save money Marlin have chosen this solution. I have already been given new wishbones, which were of no benifit, and have sent them down to Marlin, I spoke to Terry yesterday, and she is going to bring some more up to kit car live at Brands Hatch 14th Oct for me. I dont hold out much hope of an improvement. By all means please mention to Marlin that Steve is aware of the issue, as is John, so Marlin dont try and imply this is a one off. I would be interested in the results, as I am sure the other sufferers are.

Good luck Steve

alackofspeed · #7 5th October 2006, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlinturbo

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2...pensionsa6.jpg

is the orientation of both the wishbones the same on your cars? the yellow lower one can be inserted both ways IIRC?

HTH.

John

John, yes mine are as your picture - you are correct that the arm could be put around the wrong way, but it should pretty obvious that's the wrong orientation, as it sets the coilover on a slant (top pointing rearwards). When I last discussed this with Jerry, he said his spring hit the front arms when the car was on axle stands, and that he hadn't put it on the wheels.

In my view there should not be a clash at any point in the travel, as going over dips and dives should see the full (or at least a lot of the) travel used.

Cheers,

John.

marlinturbo · #8 5th October 2006, 20:27

Ok guys, I know it should be obvious I was just checking...don't be offended ok?

I've produced a drawing with dimensions for you guys to check on your chassis. These dimensions are off an independant chassis which I will also check on mine.

I'll post the link tomorrow from work. Measure yours and let us know.

As you rightly point out, maybe there are a few chassis manufacturing errors...?

HTH

John.

alackofspeed · #9 5th October 2006, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlinturbo

Ok guys, I know it should be obvious I was just checking...don't be offended ok?

I've produced a drawing with dimensions for you guys to check on your chassis. These dimensions are off an independant chassis which I will also check on mine.

I'll post the link tomorrow from work. Measure yours and let us know.

As you rightly point out, maybe there are a few chassis manufacturing errors...?

HTH

John.

No offence taken at all, and thanks for your input. For the record my right coilover misses the arm by a about 5mm when on the deck, but hits when raised. The left coilover touches when on the deck, and displaces the spring when the car is raised.

Neither is perfect, but the left is clearly the one that will give big problems.

BIG_Fella · #10 5th October 2006, 22:42

I am planing to get mine on its wheels this weekend now that i have machined the rear hubs to get the discs to fit
i wil post the outcome when that has happend

marlinturbo · #11 6th October 2006, 09:04

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3...pensionxa1.gif

see if your suspension pick up points are as per this drawing?

HTH guys.

John

alackofspeed · #12 6th October 2006, 10:29

John, thanks for this. I will check mine on Monday. Do you have the distance from the chassis longitudinal sections to the hard point holes?

The thing is, whatever is on the squizz on my car, Marlin (Mark) doesn’t seem very interested in (certainly no apology for the problem), so when it comes to solving the problem, I’ll probably opt for top arm amendment.

craig · #13 6th October 2006, 17:14

I have spent the last 2 nights messing around with ride heights etc and at the moment like John with my ride height really low the front right now misses the wishbone by about 1mm (unless I breath on it then it touches) and my front left catches!

Strange how both cars are on the same side, right catches if the ride height is raised or car lifted slightly

Craig

SDMC001 · #14 6th October 2006, 19:47

John

Thank you for all the information you have provided, what concerns me is, no matter how much we measure check compare ect, we are still faced with the same problem. What I would like to see is this issue being fixed properly by Marlin, so we can have what we thought we were getting, which at the moment is something not fit for purpose. Mark seems insistant on shorter springs, as a fix, which may work, we realy need to know here the next steps are. To my mind I have been labouring this point since June, and have not reached a satisfarctory conclussion, if Mark wont budge on this where do we go, my patience is running out, and I would like to get this resolved.

Steve

peterux · #15 6th October 2006, 21:05

Guys,
I shouldn't really comment on this issue, since I am a Sportster builder, but why not do what Mark suggests first?
He is the designer and therefore might be right?

At least try it and if that doesn't work, you have good cause to complain further.

I presume it won't take long for one of you to try his suggested solution?

Peter

craig · #16 7th October 2006, 12:38

The problem is peter if this was correct then shorter springs would have been designed into the car from the off and I for one know that with shorter springs on mine that the car would be almost scraping the deck and leave no adjustment for ride height for which the car was designed! The option of shorter springs inh my opinion is a complete botch job..........this has been offered for cost puposes only and when I've spent £9500 with Marlin which does'nt include lights trim seats flooring etc etc just the basic kit I would expect more!

Craig

grant620 · #17 7th October 2006, 23:36

I don't think "designer" is a fair description.
I too have a pack of crayola wax crayons, a piece of A4 lined paper and a plastic ruler... But I don't claim to be a designer.
Not only is the design flawed in about 500 ways, but the execution was performed by blind men with plasticine jigs IMO.

SDMC001 · #18 8th October 2006, 06:33

Peter

I think Craig has covered off the feelings we have, to my mind its also a trust issue, we purchased these kits in good faith. If a car manufacturer has a product recal, it contacts its customers, or certainly should do. If the desgn of the 5EXI has been changed, or components altered, then we should have been informed, not just left to find out. This is the most expensive hobby, project call it what you will I have ever bought, so I think it reasonable that it does what I was lead to belive it would. I hope that this will be resolved when I am given a repacement set of wishbones, all being well next week.

Steve

craig · #19 8th October 2006, 16:33

Myself and Brian have just made a direct comparison with both of our cars and the top wishbones are indeed different, but the only differance that we could see is the tube that is catching on my car is welded about 3/4 of an inch from both ends but on Brians it is welded right on the ends thus giving another 3/4 of an inch clearance!

I hope this makes sense?

The fix for me has to be new top wishbones that are welded in the correct place.

Can anyone else with the problem confirm if there welds are on the end of the tubes or more towards the car as mine are?

Craig

SDMC001 · #20 8th October 2006, 16:39

Craig

That is the same as I have, and I like compared mine with two builders who have last years batches, where the weld on the outside of the tube is almost a the edge of the two tibes coming from the chasis rail.

Steve