Ignition barrel etc

timbo · #1 23rd May 2009, 11:10

Hi
Just discovered a problem using an M52 engine with an E36 steering column: The ECU, immobiliser and key all come from my E39 (same for E46 I think) 5-series BMW, and work for my sportster's M52 engine. However, now I've tried to change the ignition barrel over as well (had it taped into the reader before), it doesn't fit, because the steering column is from an E36.
The easiest solution is to attach the 2nd barrel somewhere and use 2 keys to start it (will be the most secure sportster in the world!!) but this isnt ideal perhaps.
I was tempted to try changing over the whole ignition, but my guess is that this won't fit on the E36 steering column either.
Or would changing over the whole steering column fit?
Any other ideas?
Also, has anyone got any idea how to get the (Marlin supplied) rev counter to match up with the ECU output? I tried just a straight connection to what I thought was the correct output from the ECU, but it didn't work. I guess the wire used to go via the instrument bus, and was set up for the BMW rev counter. What would the difference be?
On the positive side, I've found a neat way of tethering an aero style fuel cap which might interest anyone needing to go through IVA. Will post some pictures on my flickr site.
Thanks
Tim

MartinClan · #2 23rd May 2009, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbo

Hi
Also, has anyone got any idea how to get the (Marlin supplied) rev counter to match up with the ECU output? I tried just a straight connection to what I thought was the correct output from the ECU, but it didn't work. I guess the wire used to go via the instrument bus, and was set up for the BMW rev counter. What would the difference be?
Thanks
Tim

Most aftermarket rev counters work with the signal from the LT side of the coil. But then I bet you don't have coil? Best thing is to find out what make it is and contact the manufacturer.

Robin

peterux · #3 23rd May 2009, 19:41

I would use both keys if the barrel is different. As you say an extra level of security is not a bad thing on a car that you cannot lock!

I looked into the rev counter/coil packs drive signal issue a couple of months back and came up with this solution from somewhere on the interweb. It collects pulses from the coil pack driver circuits. I've not tried it and the downside is you've got to splice into the coil driver leads somewhere.

It would be neater if we can find the right pin on the ecu. I wonder if there is an rpm output on the OBD connector? (I'll go study the Bentley manual again..........)

.....peter

Mike · #4 23rd May 2009, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbo

Hi
Just discovered a problem using an M52 engine with an E36 steering column: The ECU, immobiliser and key all come from my E39 (same for E46 I think) 5-series BMW, and work for my sportster's M52 engine. However, now I've tried to change the ignition barrel over as well (had it taped into the reader before), it doesn't fit, because the steering column is from an E36.
The easiest solution is to attach the 2nd barrel somewhere and use 2 keys to start it (will be the most secure sportster in the world!!) but this isnt ideal perhaps.
I was tempted to try changing over the whole ignition, but my guess is that this won't fit on the E36 steering column either.
Or would changing over the whole steering column fit?
Any other ideas?
Also, has anyone got any idea how to get the (Marlin supplied) rev counter to match up with the ECU output? I tried just a straight connection to what I thought was the correct output from the ECU, but it didn't work. I guess the wire used to go via the instrument bus, and was set up for the BMW rev counter. What would the difference be?
On the positive side, I've found a neat way of tethering an aero style fuel cap which might interest anyone needing to go through IVA. Will post some pictures on my flickr site.
Thanks
Tim

Tim

One option is to by pass all this circuitry by remapping the ECU. You will need to find the right man with the right equipment, but it can be done.

With regard to the rev counter, I know Chris Cunliffe has an M50 which solved this issue, so I'll see if we can find out from his BMW electrician how this was achieved.
regards
Mike

timbo · #5 25th May 2009, 16:24

Thanks guys
Peter, do your wiring diagrams suggest what Pin 11 on Module 4 might be outputting?
Tim

peterux · #6 25th May 2009, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbo

Thanks guys
Peter, do your wiring diagrams suggest what Pin 11 on Module 4 might be outputting?
Tim

Hi Tim,
yes, it says it is "Signal, oil pressure switch" and it goes to the Instrument Cluster, so i guess it might be the oil pressure light? The diagram of the instrument cluster does add to my understanding anymore.

Pin 17 on Module 4 says it's "Speed Signal" and only seems to go to the OBD diagnostic connector so I am hoping the this an rpm output. It doesn't specify engine speed or vehicle speed but as its on the OBD connector my hope is that it is engine rpm?? It's a plain white wire with no tracer colour.

Whist we are on pin-out Q&A, what did you do with the wire that comes from Pin 23, Module 4 that normally goes to the Clutch switch? (I assume you haven't got a clutch switch?)

cheers

Peter

timbo · #7 26th May 2009, 12:04

Thanks Peter
I'm replacing the oil pressure switch with one that matches up with the gauges (I had to do similar with the water temp sensor) so hopefully won't need pin 11. The only pins on module 4 I have connected up are:
21 for oil level warning light (haven't been able to test whether this works yet)
32 to diagnostic plug (wasn't supplied with loom but got someone to fit one up, has proved quite useful!)
33 to EWS
10 to top fuel pump relay
26 ignition live
Haven't done anything with 23 as I don't have a clutch switch.
Will give pin 17 a go to the rev counter (once I've sorted out the two key situation .....!) and let you know how it goes.
Cheers
Tim

peterux · #8 26th May 2009, 22:09

Thanks, Tim.

so I guess the engine runs without any input from the clutch switch.

It'll be interesting with your test on Pin 17 to the rev counter,

...peter

peterux · #9 27th May 2009, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux

Pin 17 on Module 4 says it's "Speed Signal" and only seems to go to the OBD diagnostic connector so I am hoping the this an rpm output. It doesn't specify engine speed or vehicle speed but as its on the OBD connector my hope is that it is engine rpm?? It's a plain white wire with no tracer colour.

Correction!

I've just noticed that the Pin 17 wire colour is marked SW in the manual which is, of course, BLACK and not white as I said above.

And it seems to go to the BMW 20 pin DLC on some earlier versions, rather than direct to the OBD connector.

timbo · #10 6th June 2009, 14:55

Have now got correct sized ignition barrel fitted, so fired her up again today

Pin 17 looks correct, (thanks Peter!!), rev counter working - was at 1400 rpm for a couple of mins, then the engine warmed up and it settled down to 800 rpm, so it seems about right.
Couldn't get my water temp sender to work though. I have mounted it in an ally joiner with the sender at the top. It is a single wire connection so I'm thinking maybe its not earthing properly???
Oil pressure sender seemed to be working, started at about 7 bars then gradually went down to about 5.
Will hopefully be able to calibrate speedo once I've got the new prop shaft bolts...
Tim

peterux · #11 6th June 2009, 19:53

Brilliant, i'm really pleased pin 17 worked!
Those Bentley manuals really are the dogs ****'s
One less thing for me to worry about when I swap my engine.

thanks

Peter

timbo · #12 9th June 2009, 21:29

Hi all
Well I've got the temp gauge working (by running a separate earth to the sender), but ... the engine is not running very well. To be specific, it starts fine, then not sounding great in terms of smoothness, settles down to idle at 800 rpm, but on depressing accelerator, won't rev properly, it stutters up to about 2000 rpm max then decides it doesn't like it and goes back down again and almost tries to stall, even with accelerator on the floor ie even with my foot down I can't get any revs out of the engine. Any ideas whats wrong???
Many thanks
Tim

peterux · #13 9th June 2009, 21:36

I guess it could be many things but i'd start by checking fuel filters.
Mine got blocked with the fine crud from the new tank. There may be not enough fuel getting through when you open the throttle.

...peter

Patrick · #14 10th June 2009, 10:45

Some other things to try:

Check your idle switch / sensor
Try disconnecting the MAF (with engine off) it will run on default settings
Hold a screw driver up to each injector and the other end to your ear here if they are running OK

timbo · #15 30th June 2009, 20:37

Just been for a test drive down the 'drive'.
Couple of things:
1. Brakes overheated and locked up again after about 10 mins. We think this might be because the adapter pin in the servo is slightly too long??
2. Speedo not working. I've run 2 wires from the diff to the gauge and earth, have calibrated the speedo to 22898 but not a dicky bird from the gauge. Any ideas on what I can test??
Thanks
Tim
PS Doesn't half accelerate

Patrick · #16 1st July 2009, 07:33

Speed sensor is a reed switch, try putting a multimeter on it directly at the diff and spinning the wheels (that is if its a BM diff)

My sportster was the other way round, the pin in the servo was too short!

timbo · #17 1st July 2009, 21:12

Thanks Patrick
Yes its a standard E36 diff. Tried your suggestion and nothing on the multimeter, so I'll try a new sensor and see what happens....

timbo · #18 6th July 2009, 18:33

Arrrrrrgh! And more arrrrgh!
1. Fitted new speedo sensor. Speedo still not working though.
2. Brakes well caput. The extension pin had got stuck into the master cylinder, and also the servo rod is at a ridiculous angle, so I think something must be bent/broken.
3. Still haven't managed to resolve the engine revving problem yet. Fortunately its only 200yds to the local garage, so I spluttered my way there this morning.
MOT tomorrow, anyone wanna bet on a pass?

Chris Cussen · #19 7th July 2009, 07:23

Well mine passed whith the speedo showing about 3 mph when doing 30.
First time through it failed on headlamp beam pattern (the lamps were sealed beam units and produced blobs of light rather than sharply cut off beams) and it ran out of fluid in the washer bottle.

But if the engine won't rev then you may have probles with the emmision tests, and the brakes nees to be working.....

Patrick · #20 7th July 2009, 07:35

Speedo is not required for MOT, mine was not setup right either as I got the maths wrong - oops! I turned up slightly late and they oh there was no need to worry about that we don't check the speedo for the MOT.

After having been on a drive around the village I did notice the miles were counting up, but very slowly so the solution was found after the MOT.