IVA Application

morris · #1 14th May 2015, 21:06

Hi all,

I'm filling out my IVA application and there are one or two questions I'm not sure on so looking for some advice from recent successful builders.

1. Type of body - I've put 'Roadster'
2. Colour - I've put multi coloured and don't think they can argue with that
3. Max design road speed - The 325 E36 top speed was 146mph. I would not think either the car or occupants will be too happy at that speed but what's the best estimate to go with. My tyres are V rated so ok there (149mph) and the speedo goes to 150 but will this affect the brake test or is that just done on the weight?
4. Design Weights - Axle 1, Axle 2, gross, train, towable mass. I now know the actual kerb weights but that's not the same thing
5. Build evidence. I was going to submit the receipts for my donor plus modules 1-3. Maybe also a 4-5 photos of various stages (that really prove nothing)

My kerb weights (but 1/2 tank of fuel) came out as axle 1=402kg, axle 2 = 478 kg and total = 880kg. At some point in the past I wrote down 550, 700 and 1250 for the design weights but can't find any evidence of where I got that from.

Any advice on what others have entered and had no problems with is gratefully received.

I'm also after any other advice at this point. Things I'm a bit worried about
- self centering. I've set castor to max+ and have 2ish degrees neg camber. Toe is a bit on the vague side. The rear is what it is though I plan on reducing the currently rather extreme neg camber using the eccentric bolts. My turning circle is shocking due to my limiters but as I'm not driving to the test I can leave that till another day (I assume).
- Brake servo hose. Mine is silicone. My MOT man said he'd have no problem with it as it was all done up tight but was not sure if the IVA man would perceive a chaffing risk. What have others used, braided fuel hose?
- Coolant leak. my 0 pressure rad cap has a habit of spitting half a cup full of coolant out during warm up but I think this is because the seal is not well bedded in. The main system is on a 2 bar cap on the expansion tank and the one on the rad is there just to plug a hole that's not being used for its intended purpose. Once hot it settles down. If this happens on the test will I just get a raised eyebrow or be pointed to the door. If it was oil, fuel or brake fluid I know the answer, but a little coolant...
- front braided brake hoses. Mine float free between the chassis and caliper and are not clipped to the wishbone. I think this is actually less likely to chaff than forcing it to run in some sort of sleeve, but it's not my opinion that counts in this case

Thanks
Ian

Patrick · #2 14th May 2015, 22:30

Its been a few years and it was SVA for me so things may have changed, but here's what I remember:

1) Looks right
2) I put beige / silver on mine
3) As long as stated top speed is less than the tyre rating you're OK - what it says on the speedo is not taken into account
4) not sure on this one been a while now, rear is heavier than the front
5) I sent donor car invoice, plus kit and various bits bought

Self centre - double check you have the top wish bones in the right way up. I had this and it didn't self centre well. I had castor set to more washers at the back and negative camber. Toe in I drove it around a few times and adjusted until it felt right.

I think mine got a bit hot during the test, from what I remember we just let it cool down for a bit (solved this later with a massive ali rad and 16" fan - now it doesn't bubble any more!)

If there's any question over the brake pipes make sure you have a bit of hose and some zip ties with you - you can always sort it out there an then if needed.

GreatOldOne · #3 15th May 2015, 06:26

Those weights sound ok. It's the 'design weight' and becomes the technically legal max weight. It's what I used for Vikki, and she only weighs about 890kg.

http://www.greatoldone.co.uk/blog/20...elle-sole.html

http://www.greatoldone.co.uk/blog/20...a-was-won.html

Don't use braided fuel line on the brake servo... The fluid will perish it if you're talking about the low pressure feeds to the master, or will collapse if you mean the vac hose.

8 Valve Ed · #4 15th May 2015, 06:54

Goo, the first link isn't working...

morris · #5 15th May 2015, 18:55

Thanks for the feedback

Patrick, I think the plan of having the bit of pipe with some cable ties is the best approach as it's quick to rectify if there is a problem. Mike said he also went with beige/silver so I will follow this example.

Goo, it may have been one of your posts or blog I read those weights from originally then. The brake hose I'm referring to is the vacuum line from the manifold to the servo. By braided fuel hose I mean the tough as old boots injection stuff rather than that floppy stuff some places sell for carb'd engines. I think for now I'll just make sure it's as well clipped in as possible so there's no risk of chaffing anyway. The silicone I have is sold as vacuum hose but I just noticed everyone else seems to have used some sort of rubber hose.

From looking at this page it looks like train weight doesn't apply as that's for tractor/trailer units. I guess same can be said for towing weight as there is no tow bar?
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained
It looks like Goo's IVA certificate doesn't have those values so I'll just leave blank.

Will get it in the post tomorrow and then panic about all the little things I may have forgotten. Need to pull my finger out though or I'll loose the summer again.

Thanks
Ian

GreatOldOne · #6 16th May 2015, 03:55

Link fixed

peterux · #7 16th May 2015, 08:42

I also registered mine as beige/silver until is was painted.

I clipped my front brake lines to the wishbones with a zip tie and some fuel hose like this....

off side - left lock by marlinpeter, on Flickr

(Note: this pic was taken before all the nut covers, etc were fitted)

I think your vacuum hose should be fine if you clip it where it rubs.

Self centering on the Sportster is a bit odd (due to the steering arm ackerman angles being wrong after shortening the distance to the diff). I found about 2 degrees toe out to work but don't ask me why. Also, pumping your front tyres up to about 35psi helps.

On your radiater cap issue, why not just seal the radiator cap with something like RTV silicone? Any pressure should be taken up by your expansion tank and in extreme cases its pressure cap.
BTW, do you have plans for louvres in your bonnets as I think your engine will get very hot with none in the top or sides?

Don't forget to check the height of your headlamps as its a bit marginal. (just wind up your suspension if too low

)

Good luck and as others have said, take lots of tools and bits and pieces as they will let you fix things on the day.

....Peter

morris · #8 16th May 2015, 18:17

Hi Peter, yes that brake clipping approach is what I planned. The problem is my hoses are E36 off the shelf rather than Marlin ones so just going by other peoples photos, they don't seem to have quite as much slack. My concern is that tying them to the wishbone is actually less safe (stretch or kink) than leaving them floating in mid air. I think I'll rock up with this solution in my back pocket and see how it goes on the day.

I'll give the 2 degrees toe out a shot. At the moment toe is all over the place. It looks ok but these things are so subtle. there definitely seems to be some scrubbing on full lock so something's not right. I noticed that Marlin recommend ~18psi for the tyres which seems very low as I'm used to 40ish on my Bimmers. Won't hurt to have them over inflated for the test though.

I've just given the tabs on my rad cap a tweak but was also thinking along the RTV line too.

Vacuum line has been cable tied to the swirl pot just to stop it vibrating. not sure if that will be ok but there's nothing else in the area to clip to.

Do you know if the height measurements on the lights is to the base, top or centre? I measured when fitting everything based on the centres but that may have been the wrong thing to do. It wouldn't hurt to raise the ride height as I was grounding out on the CAT at my mini MOT the other day. The only worry then is the rear wheel arch height being to much above the wheel centre line. So many variables to get wrong.

The docs and check are in the post now so I spent the afternoon updating my to do list and rectifying a few things I had in the back of my mind. I don't believe there's anything I can't handle in the time it will take to get an appointment. I think I just have to give it a shot now and at least if I fail, there will be a definite list of things to fix.

cheers
Ian

MartinClan · #9 16th May 2015, 20:10

Brake hoses should be ok as lomg as they are not able to touch anything in all positions of the suspension and steering. In my experience they check tnisvery carefully.

Height is to centre of lights. Remember if you drive to the test centre the suspension may settle a bit.

To get my steering to self centre I had to resort to a couple of degrees of posive camber plus very sloght toe out.

Good luck. Cheers Robin

peterux · #10 16th May 2015, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Hi Peter, yes that brake clipping approach is what I planned. The problem is my hoses are E36 off the shelf rather than Marlin ones so just going by other peoples photos, they don't seem to have quite as much slack. My concern is that tying them to the wishbone is actually less safe (stretch or kink) than leaving them floating in mid air. I think I'll rock up with this solution in my back pocket and see how it goes on the day.

I'll give the 2 degrees toe out a shot. At the moment toe is all over the place. It looks ok but these things are so subtle. there definitely seems to be some scrubbing on full lock so something's not right. I noticed that Marlin recommend ~18psi for the tyres which seems very low as I'm used to 40ish on my Bimmers. Won't hurt to have them over inflated for the test though.

I've just given the tabs on my rad cap a tweak but was also thinking along the RTV line too.

Vacuum line has been cable tied to the swirl pot just to stop it vibrating. not sure if that will be ok but there's nothing else in the area to clip to.

Do you know if the height measurements on the lights is to the base, top or centre? I measured when fitting everything based on the centres but that may have been the wrong thing to do. It wouldn't hurt to raise the ride height as I was grounding out on the CAT at my mini MOT the other day. The only worry then is the rear wheel arch height being to much above the wheel centre line. So many variables to get wrong.

The docs and check are in the post now so I spent the afternoon updating my to do list and rectifying a few things I had in the back of my mind. I don't believe there's anything I can't handle in the time it will take to get an appointment. I think I just have to give it a shot now and at least if I fail, there will be a definite list of things to fix.

cheers
Ian

Your brake lines sound Ok as they are.
IIRC I was normally running my tyres at about 20 psi.
I've not checked the latest IVA manual but this photo suggests at the time of my test I was worrying about the bottom edge of the headlights....
(But Robin may be correct)

Height adjusted by marlinpeter, on Flickr

keep us posted....

...peter

peterux · #11 16th May 2015, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux

I've not checked the latest IVA manual but this photo suggests at the time of my test I was worrying about the bottom edge of the headlights....
(But Robin may be correct)

Height adjusted by marlinpeter, on Flickr

...peter

I can't recall what the SVA manual said but current IVA manual says....

Lamp/reflector vertical position is measured from the ground:
In the case of the minimum height to the lower edge of the illuminated area (reflective surface on a reflector).
In the case of a Dipped Beam headlamp the minimum height will be measured to the apparent trace of the beam cut-off on the lens. If this point cannot be determined then you will take the lower edge of the illuminated area.

So a little subjective, depending on the inspectors opinion.

Personally, if you can, I'd set the bottom edge to be 500mm from the ground and take your 'c' spanner with you, just in case.

Patrick · #12 24th May 2015, 08:30

I used a GPS to test my speedo on the way to/from the MOT I had done before the big test.

morris · #13 1st June 2015, 16:47

Had an email through today saying my application has been successfully processed and they'll be in touch with a date

so I've passed the form filling in test anyway.

One thing I wanted to check, how do they actually assess the speedo calibration? is it with a radar gun over a section of the yard or do they do it on the rolling road. The MOT station rolling road brake tester only went up to 10mph so not much use.

Bobnic · #14 1st June 2015, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Had an email through today saying my application has been successfully processed and they'll be in touch with a date

so I've passed the form filling in test anyway.

One thing I wanted to check, how do they actually assess the speedo calibration? is it with a radar gun over a section of the yard or do they do it on the rolling road. The MOT station rolling road brake tester only went up to 10mph so not much use.

Hi Morris. You're nearly there!! Speed was tested on a rolling road @ Bristol Test centre. He checked speedo against various known roller speeds (in 10s IIRC) up to and just above 70mph, because that's obviously only as fast as you will go in a BMW powered kit car....

.
Have you got proof of the date of birth of your engine, so they test the emissions using that year's criteria? If not, I somehow managed to email BMW with chassis and engine numbers from the donor and got a 'Birth Certificate', all for free, great service, I thought! There was also a brake balance test he got me to do, which was accelerate as hard as possible, then slam the brakes on, to make sure the fronts lock before the rears. Also you need access to the engine and chassis number relatively easily. Take lots of cable ties, nut covers, and anything else you can take with you!!

Good luck, it's a terrifying and simultaneously exhilarating experience (when you pass!), well was for me anyway!!

Rob

Patrick · #15 1st June 2015, 18:05

My speedo was tested on a roller at the SVA

morris · #16 1st June 2015, 20:34

BMW were not so helpful with me unfortunately. We went back and to for quite a few weeks with them trying to find out my engine age, and then just when it was looking promising, they just said they couldn't help. I had it tested as a 93 engine as per the V5C and the emissions were very good so no worries there. I've also already been through and made sure that all the bracket-age I'd put in front of the engine number is now moved so there's fairly easy access (though the bonnet side panel does need unscrewing).

If they do the speedo on the roller that works in my favour as you can manually correct up or down while driving. If it was a test with a radar that would be a pain as I'd have to recalculate a pulse per mile figure on the spot, which would probably not go well.

Bobnic · #17 1st June 2015, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

BMW were not so helpful with me unfortunately. We went back and to for quite a few weeks with them trying to find out my engine age, and then just when it was looking promising, they just said they couldn't help. I had it tested as a 93 engine as per the V5C and the emissions were very good so no worries there. I've also already been through and made sure that all the bracket-age I'd put in front of the engine number is now moved so there's fairly easy access (though the bonnet side panel does need unscrewing).

If they do the speedo on the roller that works in my favour as you can manually correct up or down while driving. If it was a test with a radar that would be a pain as I'd have to recalculate a pulse per mile figure on the spot, which would probably not go well.

Hi Morris.
You may have tried this avenue already, but I managed to get lucky by using this email address: Customer.Information@bmwfin.com
A very helpful girl called Stacey confirmed the date of manufacture of the engine. I think it took a few weeks, and a couple of reminders to them, but the end result worked ok. I don't mean to put a downer on your test, but it was one of the only bits of paperwork the tester wanted to see. He wasn't really interested in much else paperwork wise, but every test is different due to the 'human element', so that may just have been my guy. Again if you have a decent guy doing the test, hopefully if the speedo reads off a bit, he'll nip off for a 'cup of tea' to allow some fettling to be done, to pass the speedo test. Our guy was a sound chap, and really seemed to want to pass the car, so he accommodated any on the job adjustments, including repositioning the front headlights to pass the distance from wheel arch edge measurement!
I get the feeling, that a lot of these guys make their minds up early on, as to how deep they're going to delve. If they see a good level of workmanship and attention to detail, I think they are more likely to give you the chance to correct any minor 'infringements' that may be found, and be more lenient with the 'Spheres of Doom' etc...
I drove to my test from Lechlade to Bristol with no screen or reg plate and a bike helmet on, I think I must have been photographed by passing passengers more than any other car that day in that area!

Good luck, hopefully I haven't added to the stress ball that is Marlin building!

Rob

peterux · #18 1st June 2015, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobnic

........... hopefully if the speedo reads off a bit, he'll nip off for a 'cup of tea' to allow some fettling to be done, to pass the speedo test. Our guy was a sound chap, and really seemed to want to pass the car, ......

I had exactly the same experience. He ran the rollers while I adjusted my speedo until it was OK.

I just remembered, they tested my speedo on the rollers up to 70mph. Sitting in a stationary car do 70mph was quite exciting

morris · #19 1st June 2015, 21:57

yeah, it was that same customer services email I tried. They did come back and ask for follow up info which I provided but in the end said they couldn't help. I may try my local (25 miles away) dealer as Peter suggests as I need to pick up one or two parts anyway.

I suppose the V5 only proves what engine the car had at the point I bought it, not what it was originally fitted with. Having said that, it passed the Basic Emissions test with flying colours anyway so I'm not too worried about having to argue the standard down on age.

peterux · #20 1st June 2015, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

BMW were not so helpful with me unfortunately. We went back and to for quite a few weeks with them trying to find out my engine age, and then just when it was looking promising, they just said they couldn't help.

If you go and see your local BMW spares department and ask them to run a report off their computer for the donor car's VIN number. It should give you the date of manufacture and the original engine number. It's not a birth certificate but should be enough proof of the age of the engine. I've usually found the spares guys very helpful.

Secondly, I recommend a pre-IVA MOT test. A second pair of eyes does no harm to check your car before the IVA. I believe it is legal to drive to an MOT as long as you have an appointment. It gives you a chance to bed in the brakes, test the steering self centering and check the speedo.
You can have it officially MOT'd on the Sportster's VIN number but the disadvantage is that you then have to get your car MOT'd every year after your registration (rather than 3 years from the date of registration). Again, not such a bad idea