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  #1  
Old 2nd August 2017, 15:26
rickhlondon rickhlondon is offline
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Default Miglia speedster

Hi
New member.
Very interested in possibly building a Miglia speedster.
I've spoken to Chris Welch at Tribute who was exceptionally helpful and also honest and practical in answering my queries.
He has advised me however that although he can supply the body etc for the build, he cannot currently supply the frame which sits on the chassis to support the body.
It has been suggested that possibly a Formosa 120 GR frame could be adapted, but I have been unsuccessful in contacting Gary Janes on the mobile shown on the internet.
Does anybody know where a frame can be obtained elsewhere and also a contact number for Gary Janes so that option can also be explored?
Also Chris advised there were one or two issues with the body as it currently is supplied notably the rear nearside wheel arch not being centred etc and I believe one or two other matters.
Could any of the members give some guidance on quite how much of a problem this is given that I may be attempting the work myself and have limited skills with regard to bodywork.
I gather Dave Cymru is the man on this so any input from Dave would also be appreciated.
I was most impressed with Rattler's car which he sold relatively recently and would be looking to achieve similar results, along the lines of the Lancia D24.

If there are any members contemplating selling an already built Miglia, which would enable me to fettle same to my requirements I would certainly also consider that.

Finally I have yet to see a Miglia Speedster in the flesh!

I am in Hertfordshire but happy to travel.
Are there any shows coming up which will definitely have any Miglias on display or any other suggestions appreciated.

I look forward to any feedback.
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Available from eBay
  #2  
Old 2nd August 2017, 16:01
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Mister Towed Mister Towed is offline
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Hi Rick, I take it you've seen this one currently listed on ebay?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miglia-Sam...8AAOSwGrFZfMf0

No bids yet at £3k, if I were in the market for such a project I'd contact the seller and see if you can negotiate a price that suits both parties.

As far as actually building a Miglia goes, if your mechanical skills are up to the job of replacing worn out suspension components, brakes etc. on a
classic Triumph, then you would find the build an absorbing challenge.

If you really don't know one end of a spanner from the other then it could be a bit of a stretch unless you're a very fast learner with a natural aptitude for things mechanical.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 'issues' regarding wheel arch alignment and the like, neither the Miglia or the Sammio Spyder that it was developed from are completely symmetrical but nobody ever notices as you can't see both sides of the car at the same time.

If you feel you'll need ongoing technical advice and support, have you considered one of Chris's other Tribute models, like the A352 or D Type? As far as I'm aware, both of those can be built straight onto a Spitfire body tub without the need for a subframe, which would reduce the overall build cost as the bodies are about the same price as a Miglia body. Both those cars also look stunning in the flesh when they're finished to a decent standard.

Anyway, good luck with your project and I'm sure there'll be others along shortly with their own take on the subject.
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  #3  
Old 2nd August 2017, 17:51
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Rick , I don't know why you haven't had any success contacting me ...have you tried 07970 636986 ? I probably wouldn't normally reply to unknown numbers , but recently have even been doing that as I am in discussions with DVLA ...Text me if its easier and I can call you back .

Chris did discuss this with me a couple of weeks ago . A Formosa frame will need to be modified quite extensively to fit . The Formosa is dimensionally very different , wheelbase and track are the only similar measurements .
If Chris was to supply you a bodyshell and bring it over to me , I have a Herald chassis and bulkhead sat here that I could make a frame for you . Either in box section as they were supplied , as basic as they were or an enhanced version , more like a Formosa ...or My tube man can make a tube version ...
The one on Ebay is a nice way of gathering a lot of the parts but still requires a frame and , despite the vendors enthusiasm and assurity its a quick build , would still require a lot of work to put together ...
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  #4  
Old 2nd August 2017, 18:22
rickhlondon rickhlondon is offline
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Thanks to both for replies.
No, I hadn't seen the ebay one (must have snuck in on the rare moment I wasn't on ebay) and will research further, thanks.
Lancelot, yes I have a withheld number and will call you again also.
Re: the work, I am classic car obsessed. I have done a bit of historic rallying and am currently building a 60's historic race car, (you can never have too many projects!) but, although reasonably handy with a spanner, am acutely aware that my enthusiasm far exceeds my ability.
In reality, of late, I have been making the coffee whilst a man who does know what he's doing has been doing most of the work and I have thoroughly enjoyed the process and learned a great deal.
I can call on expertise if I mess up, but would like to have a go myself.
What caught my eye was the Lancia D24 which I thought was beautiful and the reality that a genuine one would never be available.
I started off looking at the Sammio Spyder, but from the pics, to me it looked slightly out of proportion at the front end.
Having said that, the green one on the front of kit car magazine recently is a cracker.
Then looked at the Cordite and then Miglia Speedster. Slightly longer front end, doors, and just, to me, looks more 50's and elegant.
So there we are. It appears that the Spartan which comes with the Miglia body on ebay, is based on a Vitesse chassis. I assume that's the same as the Herald and is suited to the Miglia body, as I had thought that the Miglia was based on the spitfire chassis, which I thought was longer?
To be honest, having looked at everything I can find on Spyder/Cordite/Miglia over the last few weeks, together with the somewhat chequered ownership histories of the various companies and related changes, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is getting slightly confused!
Bottom line is that the car is very evocative and attractive and in theory at least should be relatively easier (I may eat those words) to put together on an existing chassis than starting totally from scratch.
Really appreciate the constructive and helpful comments.

Please keep them coming.

Rick
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  #5  
Old 2nd August 2017, 18:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickhlondon View Post
I started off looking at the Sammio Spyder, but from the pics, to me it looked slightly out of proportion at the front end.
Having said that, the green one on the front of kit car magazine recently is a cracker.
Then looked at the Cordite and then Miglia Speedster. Slightly longer front end, doors, and just, to me, looks more 50's and elegant.
So there we are. It appears that the Spartan which comes with the Miglia body on ebay, is based on a Vitesse chassis. I assume that's the same as the Herald and is suited to the Miglia body, as I had thought that the Miglia was based on the spitfire chassis, which I thought was longer?


Rick
You are right , the Lancia D24 was a major influence on the S*mmio Spyder and the similar offerings it subsequently spawned ...namely Cordite and Miglia. The Byers SR 100 was another car I kept getting drawn to through those early development years as well ...
The Miglia is probably the most correct cockpit wise to the D24 , which affects bonnet length etc.
I think a Miglia with a reduced headrest , full bootlid and squared off grille lower jaw , would be pretty close ......

The Miglia and Spyder are based on the longer Herald and Vitesse chassis ...the Cordite was based on the shorter Spitfire and GT6 offerings ...

The existing chassis/drivetrain build start that side steps IVA is going to be the easiest route for you ...
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  #6  
Old 6th August 2017, 07:48
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Rickhlondon – A belated welcome to the forum Rick.

You’ve already had some good advice from Mister Towed & Lancelot Link, so I’ll just throw in a bit more.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

”I gather Dave Cymru is the man on this so any input from Dave would also be appreciated.”

Even though Chris @ Tribute now sells the Speedster, Miglias have their own sub-section of the forum here:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...splay.php?f=21

Where you will also find DaveCymru’s Miglia Speedster build thread:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=4953

So you can use that thread to send him a message either via a reply to the thread.
Or via a PM (Personal Message) by clicking on his user name where it appears to the left of his posts.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

”Chris advised there were one or two issues with the body as it currently is supplied notably the rear nearside wheel arch not being centred etc and I believe one or two other matters.
Could any of the members give some guidance on quite how much of a problem this is given that I may be attempting the work myself and have limited skills with regard to bodywork.”


Most people who share their build threads on here will cover their fibreglass work in detail which really helps.

As prior to starting my own Sammio Cordite build, I’d never worked with fibreglass before.

But once you get the hang of it, making changes to things like the wheel arches is pretty straight forward.



So it is definitely possible to learn bodywork skills to make significant changes to an ‘acceptable’ standard.

Before:



After:



However, there are two things to note carefully here:
- If you want professional standard bodywork, pay a professional to do it!
- I spent a HUGE number of hours messing about with fibreglass & filler, so time is the real cost.
( Although you will also have to spend real money on materials too. )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

”Bottom line is that the car is very evocative and attractive and in theory at least should be relatively easier (I may eat those words) to put together on an existing chassis than starting totally from scratch.”

Seeing the original Sammio Spyder (#66) on the front cover of a magazine was enough to drag me into this world.



So if your heart is really set on a Miglia Speedster, then anything is possible\achievable.

But just a few words of caution from me…

You are correct to say starting with an existing chassis is easier than building a chassis from scratch.

However, you will need someone to build a custom internal framework to suit.

Lancelot Link’s framework for his Formosa 120 GR gives you some idea of what is required.



I also learnt to weld (to a fashion) during my build and modified my own framework quite a bit.

But I would have found the task of building a frame from scratch too much for a novice to take on.

I was able to strip my Spitfire donor down to the rolling chassis with no prior experience.



Clearly, at this point the donor could not be driven which lead to clutch and engine problems.
( Due to the time it took me to put everything back together. )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So I would echo Mr T’s point about considering kits that keep more of the donor car.

Both the new Sammio Alpha and the Tribute A352 allow the donor car to remain driveable during the build.
( Not road legal, but OK to fire up and drive in the garage/driveway. )

The big advantage of this is that you don’t need to remove things like the wiring, steering column, handbrake, etc.

Here are a few photos that give you an idea of what remains of the donor car underneath the new body work.

Alpha





A352





As a general rule, builds that start with a bare chassis take longer than those that just cut down the donor.

If you check the Miglia build treads, some are relatively quick, but others take years.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

”I am in Hertfordshire but happy to travel.”

Whilst I don’t have a Miglia, I do live in Wembley, so you can’t be too far from me.

If you can wait until I’ve finished painting my car you are welcome to visit/chat/come for a spin.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hope that helps and good luck, Paul.
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  #7  
Old 6th August 2017, 14:23
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davecymru davecymru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickhlondon View Post
Very interested in possibly building a Miglia speedster.
I've spoken to Chris Welch at Tribute who was exceptionally helpful and also honest and practical in answering my queries.
He has advised me however that although he can supply the body etc for the build, he cannot currently supply the frame which sits on the chassis to support the body.

Could any of the members give some guidance on quite how much of a problem this is given that I may be attempting the work myself and have limited skills with regard to bodywork.
I gather Dave Cymru is the man on this so any input from Dave would also be appreciated.
Hey matey, It's good to see that there is still some intertest in the Miglias and the bodys are still being sold as it is a very pretty shape, although it's frustrating to hear that you can't get frames!

One key thing to point out right at the outset is that for these cars the frame is purely a body supporting frame, it doesn't play a structural part. Yes... you can enhance a frame to add stiffness to the finished car and a lot of us do, but it's a point worth remembering as it means that if you can weld or want to learn to weld then you can make one adapt one yourself knowing that you'll still have a safe car!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rickhlondon View Post
I have yet to see a Miglia Speedster in the flesh! I am in Hertfordshire but happy to travel.

Are there any shows coming up which will definitely have any Miglias on display or any other suggestions appreciated.
Well i won't claim that mine is the best example out-n-about, but it will give you an idea of what an enthusiastic amateur with a bit of spare time can do!

I'm down in Somerset and i should be at the Haynes Motor Museum breakfast meet on the first sun of Sept, otherwise if you're ever attempting to drive along the caravan park that is masquerading as the M5 in Somerset atm, then let me know and i'm sure we can arrange something!

Dave
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  #8  
Old 6th August 2017, 14:31
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Probably worth adding a quick note that no matter how you want to approach building 'your' car, these shells let you do it how you want and no-one (at least on here) will criticise the choices you make!

i.e. If you want something perfect with perfect shut lines and totally symmetrical then wonderful but it may take longer.

If you are willing to put up with not everything totally aligning and wheel arches being slightly off, but overall the car looking very cool then that's fine (i fall into this camp!)

Or if you want to cobble something together as quick as you can and simply get out and enjoy it, then equally cool!

You've already heard the legendary line of:
"you can't see both sides at the same time"!
And TBH that sums up the frame of mind of most of us Sammio/Ribble/Miglia builders owners. We're an accomodating bunch who enjoy what we build and enjoy driving them
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  #9  
Old 6th August 2017, 15:15
rickhlondon rickhlondon is offline
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Paul and Dave
Thank you both for the good advice and all duly noted.
Paul do let me know when you're finished on the paint side.
Wembley is my old stomping ground from my "yoof" and not far away.
Your invite appreciated.
I have today just returned from a "first Sunday of the month" classic car meeting in Bibury in the Cotswolds.

As I arrived, I caught a fleeting glimpse of the rear of what looked like a red Miglia, Cordite leaving. raised rear headrest hump etc.
I suspect it was a Ferrari/Maserati or other worth millions (they had what appeared to be a genuine 250 GTO there !) but the general consensus was with such ridiculous values on genuine cars, nobody can afford them and you'd have to have a lot of guts to take them on the road.

At least the replicas give a bit of usable fun and can be beautiful to look at.

Still looking !

Rick
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  #10  
Old 10th August 2017, 07:38
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Whilst I was tempted by some of the models highlighted on this forum, especially Scotties A352, I know, like you, my interest may not be matched by my capabilities. Check out the build threads as Paul suggests, but also note when they commenced. Mr Towed's advice to go for something with existing chassis is sound. Best spend your time on getting what you want, and unless that is doing a whole bunch of structural work that will never be seen, and probably not add to the performance, I would avoid it. Paul has flagged that it is possible to learn basic glasswork and maybe some welding. Good luck, whatever route you decide on.
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