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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Sammio Builds and discussions

Sammio Builds and discussions Sammio bodied car builds and specials

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  #1  
Old 1st December 2015, 18:47
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Default New SAMMIO 3/4 Wheeler

Unfortunately I have to run this as a business so I am all ways looking at what sells.
When Morgan launched their 3 wheeler and when ever they re-model their 3 wheeler the price of any other 3 wheeler goes up.
The humble 2 CV based LOMAX kit car of which over 2,00 where built has almost doubled in price in a few years.
The LOMAX moulds have long since disappeared and have become unavailable.
But due to demand the cunning Belgians made a very close "copy" called the Le PATRON which sell at about £3,500 a unit

I have long been looking for a substitute 3 wheeler and now I think I have one

After some time and effort :geek: I have managed to get hold of the moulds to the BRA LEIGHTON 3 wheeler which looks like this







The original car used a space frame chassis LOCOST style, but although I also have the original chassis jigs I am going to convert the body to fit a standard 2CV chassis.
The overall design will stay much the same but I have several new ideas still in the making, they include.
Incorporate the Lomax bulkhead and possibly the Lomax shuttle panel, thus giving some shape to the top shuttle and making use of the tried and tested shape of the bulkhead.
Binning the original 2CV front suspension set-up in favour of coil-overs
A new ideas for the 3 wheeler version is to use an independent rear sub-frame using the original 2CV hub and a coil over shock which mean the chassis rear outriggers remains un-cut so NO MSVA

There will be both a 3 and 4 wheeler version just like the LOMAX.

Of course it's all under R&D at the moment, I am waiting for a body to be laid-up and get a suitable chassis but it's defiantly happening so ideas or comment will be viewed very seriously.

I'LL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED
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  #2  
Old 1st December 2015, 19:59
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I quite like 3 wheelers, especially with the boat tail rear ends.

I am sure there is a market for car with a "simple" build approach.

As whilst the Pembleton looks amazing, it is a very high skilled build.

Either way, good luck, Paul.
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  #3  
Old 1st December 2015, 20:53
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It seems as a good idea,but perhaps you should keep the original 2cv suspension and offer the coilover as an option.
In the Netherlans these cars are popular because of the use of original 2cv parts including chassis and drivetrain.
Overhere a car is made of 3 parts,chassis,body and engine and to get a license on a kitcar you can only chanche 1 of these parts otherwise you can't get it thru our biva.
If you offer it as a bodykit i can see potential for you to export the kits.
René
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  #4  
Old 2nd December 2015, 06:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneanglia View Post
It seems as a good idea,but perhaps you should keep the original 2cv suspension and offer the coilover as an option.
.
René
Seconded, bog-standard 2cv and Dyane 6 suspension and brakes are amazing and will gain additional benefit from the weight reduction.

Although the 602cc boxer twin is smooth and full of character (with minimal baffling in the exhaust), it could do with a boost in power, so I'd recommend offering an engine conversion kit as an option instead of the coil-overs. I'd start with Sparrow Engineering - http://www.sparrowautomotive.co.uk/citroen2cvbmw.html

I've always liked reverse tricycle cars myself so I'm watching this with interest.
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  #5  
Old 2nd December 2015, 08:14
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Hi mike great idea just sold one of your 2cv specials I would be interested in your new venture just can't bring myself to sell my miglia at moment I'm rebuilding a Bugatti at the moment looking forward to your progress rattler
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  #6  
Old 2nd December 2015, 10:22
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[QUOTE=micky1mo;
But due to demand the cunning Belgians made a very close "copy" called the Le PATRON which sell at about £3,500 a unit
[/QUOTE]

Sorry but the le Patron is a dutch car,not belgian
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  #7  
Old 2nd December 2015, 17:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneanglia View Post
Sorry but the le Patron is a dutch car,not belgian
Oops!!!
But it was an honest mistake

I also got the cost wrong!! It 2,695eur for the just basic body kit.
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  #8  
Old 2nd December 2015, 17:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneanglia View Post
Overhere a car is made of 3 parts,chassis,body and engine and to get a license on a kitcar you can only chanche 1 of these parts otherwise you can't get it thru our biva.

René
Thanks for the info but are you saying the chassis is a rolling chassis ie; suspension, steering ect?
If the original rear axle is altered to a single wheel (Lomax style) would this still pass you test?
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  #9  
Old 2nd December 2015, 19:28
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There is a possibilaty but as far as i know only with the rear suspension arms facing inwards and on both arms a wheel,not with a single arm/wheel.
Not sure about this but there are lomax an le patron 3 wheelers passed the test but as far as i know with 2 wheels in the middle of the rear.
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  #10  
Old 3rd December 2015, 06:23
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As I recall, the original Lomax '3' wheeler design reversed both of the rear suspension arms, leaving two wheels at the back but very close together. The designer hoped that it would qualify for the motorcycle road tax fee of £30 per year as opposed to the motor car road tax fee, which was about £120 (quite a lot of money in the mid 80's, equivalent to about £500 today in what it could buy). In reality, the two wheels at the back were too far apart for it to claim three wheeler status, hence the redesign with a single, central wheel aft.

Not sure how the suspension modification at the back would affect IVA, but my gut feeling is that you won't have altered the chassis, just modified the suspension, so it should be exempt. Just don't quote me on that...
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  #11  
Old 3rd December 2015, 08:53
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I looked into 3 wheel design
I think it has huge potential for future transport.

Keeping the 2 rear wheels with the rear arms switched to bring them inboard gives the best foot print for stable handling.

With the body that the above trike has it would not be visible.
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  #12  
Old 3rd December 2015, 17:02
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Sorry to disappoint you all but the suspension arms in the 2CV will not "just turn around" as the inner and outer swinging arm bearings are different sizes.

The get a single rear wheel the arm has to be cut just behind the axle mounting, turned 180 degs, then re-welded. It also has the be cut about 40mm behind the wheel hub and an extended piece about 5" long welded in place to bring the wheel in the middle of the chassis. I know because have built a jig to do just that.







The only problem is to enable the single wheel/arm to move up and down one of the rear out-riggers needs to be cut off and in some cases DVLA says this is an altered chassis. .



To get around this I made a single wheel arrangement using the original hub and a coil-over shock on a motorcycle style swinging arm.



Just a case of un-bolting one unit and replacing it with the new one so no chassis modifications.



this is the same mod I'll use for the new 3 wheeler.
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  #13  
Old 4th December 2015, 14:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micky1mo View Post
...Just a case of un-bolting one unit and replacing it with the new one so no chassis modifications...
It has to be a good idea if it will keep the DVLA happy and avoid the need for a builder to start cutting and welding things.
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  #14  
Old 4th December 2015, 15:39
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What size rear wheel and tyre are you designing the rear swing arm around?
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  #15  
Old 4th December 2015, 16:17
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Hmm, neat solution. I wonder if you could get a whole 'bike back end in there, motor and all?
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  #16  
Old 4th December 2015, 16:33
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I think cutting off the outriggers does'nt matter as it are no structural pieces of the chassis,the lomax and le Patron has also cut off the outriggers and there was no problem,even not overhere.........
With the Cordite and miglia's are the outriggers also cut off as i recall?
By using the original suspension arm in the one wheel configuration you need a torsion bar that's connected to the other suspension arm so the suspension of both arms is used.
http://imagehosting.rodsnsods.co.uk/...1cf509377a.jpg

Last edited by reneanglia; 4th December 2015 at 16:38..
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  #17  
Old 4th December 2015, 18:02
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Believe me cutting off an outrigger did lead to trouble with the DVLA.
Your right SAMMIO's do cut the rear out riggers down but they left them sticking out of the back of the car until after the VIC/DVLA inspection just in case there's trouble.
That said the DVLA seem to be letting this mod through now.

Although some 3 wheeler builders in the passed have linked the rear suspension arms together there is really no need.
Both the Lomax and the Le Patron just use a single suspension arm with it's single spring and they have been doing this for years without any issues.

You have to remember the rear 2CV springs were designed to carry the combined weight of the car body, 2 rear passengers and boot luggage where as the 3 wheelers have only to carry less than half the body weight, no rear passengers and minimal luggage so a single spring copes well with the smaller load.

One recommended mod is to fit a gas shock.

Why fix some thing that's not broken
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  #18  
Old 4th December 2015, 18:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadster View Post
What size rear wheel and tyre are you designing the rear swing arm around?
I used the standard 2CV 15" wheel using the KISS principle
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  #19  
Old 4th December 2015, 18:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Towed View Post
Hmm, neat solution. I wonder if you could get a whole 'bike back end in there, motor and all?
Sure, but only after the inspection/paperwork is completed
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  #20  
Old 4th December 2015, 19:20
reneanglia reneanglia is offline
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MIckey the torsion bar is not for suspension needs but to reduce bodyroll.
There is no need for but it improves road handling so i am told by Wim van den Berg the constructor of the le Patron 3 wheeler.
He told also this configuration is the only way the 3 wheeler is getting thru the dutch dvla.
It is not important to you,only if you want to export to Holland but i suggest you only offer it in kit package as body reay to bolt on a 2cv chassis.
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