Are you madabout kit cars      
 "We've Got Kit Cars Covered" Information about Madabout-Kitcars.com Contact Madabout-Kitcars.com         Home of UK kit cars - madabout-kitcars.com Various kit car write ups All the latest kit car news Kit car related and general discussion

Search
Manufacturers
Kit Cars
Kit Car Data sheets
Picture Gallery
SVA Knowledgebase
Clubs & Communities
Build cost estimator
Kit cars for sale
Knowledge Base 
KitcarUSA.com
Classic-Kitcars.com
 

Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18th November 2008, 12:06
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default Engine Started!!!

As you know, I put the car on it's wheels at the weekend. The fuel lines are complete, and that leaves me with one more job before I can tell if my engine rebuild was successful - wiring her up.

I've not got the original Beemer loom, and neither have I bought the loom from Marlin. What I do have is this:

http://www.nfauto.co.uk/wiring_module.htm

Which I bought at Stoneleigh this year.

Broadly speaking, it should be easy with this - but I'm a little aprehensive about the whole process.

I'm a little unclear on somethings... Such as:

I have two fuel pumps - I assume that each will need it's own relay. There is a fuel relay on the engine harness, and one on the wiring module. Can I the engine one for the HP pump, and the module one for the LP pump?

Cable - I need to several different sizes to accomodate the current draw of different parts of the car, but how much do you think will be required? I don't want to buy 10's of meters of cable when 50cm will do.

I've also been thinking that I could do the whole car in a couple of colours of cable, therefore saving money as I can buy in bigger quantities of each size - but then identify each circuit with these:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/344
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/345
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/346

Or is that bad form? The majority of it will be wrapped up in loom tape anyway...

Also, what's the minimum wiring required to fire her up?
Pumps,
Ignition circuits,
Oil pressure warning light
ECU

Anything else?

Ta,

Jason

Last edited by GreatOldOne; 6th January 2009 at 18:19.. Reason: Title change
Reply With Quote
Available from eBay
  #2  
Old 18th November 2008, 12:33
chrislandy chrislandy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 383
chrislandy is on a distinguished road
Default

check out
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.e...e/homepage.php

quick delivery when i bought some stuff from them
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18th November 2008, 12:56
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,773
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Jason

I am a (lapsed) electrical engineer so I should be able to answer some of your questions.

1. I hope you have the loom that came with the engine and ECU. If not you will need to get one.

2. I think that I would run both pumps from the same relay - I did that and it seems fine. In theory you should start the low pressure pump first then the high pressure one a few seconds after. This allows the LP pump to fill the swirl pot before starting the HP pump. But I don't think its really necessary.

3. I would always use colour coded cable. I culled most of mine from the old BMW harness so that the colours AND SIZES match the original. It's easier than working out what sizes you need.

4. Pretty much impossible to guess how much you need cause it depends on the location of the various components. You need to measure I'm afraid and then probably add 25%.

5. Make sure everything is protected with the correct sized fuses! Electrical fires are pretty commom in Kit Cars!

6. Use relays for the large consumption items, headlights, horns etc.

7. Loom tape is OK - but heat shrink is easier!

8. Your list to start her looks about right. I also wired up the alternator as some of the wiring is incorporated in the engine loom.

A couple of other things.

I found the company - Vehicle Wiring Products - to be cheapest.
Get some good tools - cutters, strippers and a decent crimping tool. A soldering iron can also be usefull
Plan your wiring routes carefully!
Use multiway plug and sockets to seperate the loom into three or four chunks. A lot easier to make the loom and easier to fix those little mistakes... Front, Middle (all the stuff in the dash area including the fusebox) and Rear. I also added a sepperate connector for all the dash wiring so that I can unplug the dash and wire it on the bench. One of my next jobs....

Cheers

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18th November 2008, 13:33
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
1. I hope you have the loom that came with the engine and ECU. If not you will need to get one.
Yes, I still have that. It's on the engine and plugged into the ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
2. I think that I would run both pumps from the same relay - I did that and it seems fine. In theory you should start the low pressure pump first then the high pressure one a few seconds after. This allows the LP pump to fill the swirl pot before starting the HP pump. But I don't think its really necessary.
Did you use a new relay or the one on the engine harness? AFAIK, there's the main and the BMW fuel relay on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
3. I would always use colour coded cable. I culled most of mine from the old BMW harness so that the colours AND SIZES match the original. It's easier than working out what sizes you need.
As I don't have the original any more, I'll be buying a lot of cable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
5. Make sure everything is protected with the correct sized fuses! Electrical fires are pretty commom in Kit Cars!

6. Use relays for the large consumption items, headlights, horns etc.
The wiring modules have all of those, so I should be OK
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18th November 2008, 14:17
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,773
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Did you use a new relay or the one on the engine harness? AFAIK, there's the main and the BMW fuel relay on it.
I used the BMW one which is controlled by the ECU. I haven't added any relays as I also re-used the BMW power distribution box which has everything built in.

Mind you it upset the wife a bit unpicking the BMW loom on the kitchen floor so I couldn't recommend it LOL...

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19th November 2008, 07:22
Simon's Avatar
Simon Simon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Daventry
Posts: 83
Simon is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Jason,

You've probably already considered this but another alternative is to buy a generic car loom from Premier wiring:
http://www.premierwiring.co.uk/
I think this is what came with my Cabrio (ie could be the loom that Marlin supply) and it was reasonably straight forward to patch the BMW engine loom in to it (and you could still incorporate the CBS fuse/relay panel).

Good luck !

Simon

ps - I've still got parts of the loom from a 5 series if you want it. Its not complete but may be a useful (free) source of wire is you decide to go down that route.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20th November 2008, 16:53
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the offer Simon, but I ordered a whole shed load of wire now. Should arrive tomorrow. Which is nice, considering I have the day off work!

My cockpit warning lights arrived from CBS today - they're the same ones that Pete and Patrick used.

Speaking of CBS, does anyone know if these are SVA compliant?

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/toggle-sw...ard-3583-p.asp

They look good (ala Beemer Mini) and with toggles in between, quite period & in fitting with the car IMHO
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25th November 2008, 11:11
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

Guys - I have a couple of leads coming from the loom that have lost the text on the identifiying tag I put on it when I took the loom out of the donor. Can anyone tell me where they need to go?

They're a thick and slightly thinner red cable (25amp and 17amp?), both terminating in a crimped on ring terminal:



I'm assuming that they need to go to the positive terminal on the battery, but as I can't remember where they went I thought I'd ask to save embarassment later.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25th November 2008, 21:56
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,875
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Guys - I have a couple of leads coming from the loom that have lost the text on the identifiying tag I put on it when I took the loom out of the donor. Can anyone tell me where they need to go?

They're a thick and slightly thinner red cable (25amp and 17amp?), both terminating in a crimped on ring terminal:



I'm assuming that they need to go to the positive terminal on the battery, but as I can't remember where they went I thought I'd ask to save embarassment later.
I just had a quick look at my car. The larger one is definately the main positive battery feed to the engine loom goes to the positive terminal. I wired mine via a 60 amp fusable link. Not sure about the thinner cable as I cant see this cable on my loom (but mine be either under the dashboard or my loom might be different?).
i'll have a look through my pictures to see if I can see anything similar and dig out my wiring diagrams. Did your donor car have the battery in the boot?

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 25th November 2008, 22:11
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

yes, the battery was in the boot on my donor
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26th November 2008, 22:23
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,875
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
yes, the battery was in the boot on my donor
Ah, so your loom might be different, as my battery was under the bonnet.

I found this photo in my archives......



There are the two cables screwed to the top of the battery positive terminal. The smaller one went to the fuse box; so this is the main feed to ignition, lights, pumps etc.
In my car this was a separate cable and not used as my new loom came with a brown feed cable that goes to the positive battery feed. Obviuosly, the big thick cable goes from the battery direct to the starter motor.

Hope this helps?

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27th November 2008, 07:24
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,773
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Guys - I have a couple of leads coming from the loom that have lost the text on the identifiying tag I put on it when I took the loom out of the donor. Can anyone tell me where they need to go?

They're a thick and slightly thinner red cable (25amp and 17amp?), both terminating in a crimped on ring terminal:

I'm assuming that they need to go to the positive terminal on the battery, but as I can't remember where they went I thought I'd ask to save embarassment later.
I'll take a look at mine. It's so long ago that I did the wiring I can't remember what it looks like now! My battery was in the boot so I guess it will be the same as yours.

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27th November 2008, 11:17
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks chaps.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27th November 2008, 20:25
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,773
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

I have three cables in all going to the +ve terminal

The huge one that goes to the starter motor via the engine loom. As I remember this also goes to the alternator.

A medium sized one (guessing about 6-8mm cross section) that goes directly to the BMW fusebox. This is the main feed for all the electrics except the engine management.

A smaller one, 4mm ish, that includes an inline fuse that goes to the engine loom that powers the engine management systems.

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27th November 2008, 22:15
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks Robin - I guess I was correct in my assumption that they both need to go to the positive terminal then.

Although... I don't have an inline fuse on either of them. Well, not that I recall seeing one when I was re-wrapping the loom. And there's no huge cable going from the battery to the starter bundled in the loom - there is one that goes from the alternator to the starter. IIRC, the cable to the starter was separate on my donor car. That's how I've done it on the Sportster (via a battery isolator key)

I wonder if it's because mine is an older donor than yours? mine was an 85/86 model, and I know that differences crept into the design around then. I ran into that when I rebuilt the engine, as it has different bearings to later models. And I've noticed that my diagnostic connector is different to everyone else's, and if your remember the ECU connector on mine is the same shape as the ABS control unit connector - which caused much confusion at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28th November 2008, 07:44
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,773
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

My donor is '89. It was also a left hand drive import from Switzerland! So I guess that is where the differences lie.

Personally - I would add an in-line fuse to the feed for the engine loom if you don't already have one. The one in mine (original BMW) is just a fusible link - I guess arround 40 amps.

Kind regards

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 7th December 2008, 19:53
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, I guess this counts as starting the wiring.

http://www.greatoldone.co.uk/Site/Bu...Electrics.html



Next question - fuse-able 'links' - I've googled it, and come up with nothing - I guess I'm not using the right terms. Where did you chaps get yours? Are they just inline 'mega' blade fuses? Where do you get holders for them if that's the case.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 7th December 2008, 22:21
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,875
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Next question - fuse-able 'links' - I've googled it, and come up with nothing - I guess I'm not using the right terms. Where did you chaps get yours? Are they just inline 'mega' blade fuses? Where do you get holders for them if that's the case.
Best place I found for wires and wiring stuff was Vehicle Wiring Products.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.e...s/holders2.php

I think I used the first one here.... lots of other useful hard to find bits at this place and very reasonable prices.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 8th December 2008, 07:39
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,773
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
Well, I guess this counts as starting the wiring.


Next question - fuse-able 'links' - I've googled it, and come up with nothing - I guess I'm not using the right terms. Where did you chaps get yours? Are they just inline 'mega' blade fuses? Where do you get holders for them if that's the case.
My BMW loom had the fuseable link built in - so I didn't need to acquire one - but any large fuse and appropriate holder could be used.

I took a look at your wiring pictures. Are those self adhesive tie wrap bases you are using? If so I think you might find the SVA man doesn't like them (If he spots them of course...) I am sure I saw something in the manual that rules out adhesive type fixings...

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 8th December 2008, 09:08
GreatOldOne's Avatar
GreatOldOne GreatOldOne is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 1,886
GreatOldOne is on a distinguished road
Default

I'm sure my loom had one at one point, but I've obviously ditched it some time ago - so I'll just have to get something to replace it.

As for the cable tie bases, they are self adhesive - but I put a rivet through the fixing hole just to be sure. The adhesive is just stopping it from spinning around the rivet.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 04:13.

copyright madabout-kitcars.com 2000-2020
terms and conditions | privacy policy