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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin 5exi builds

Marlin 5exi builds Calling all you sexi builders....sorry 5exi builders, show us your progress.

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  #1  
Old 14th November 2008, 13:11
sconcia sconcia is offline
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Default Hydraulic Clutch Questions

Right then, I've read on here about how people strongly recommend a hydraulic clutch as the way to go, especially for the Type-R clutch.

My understanding of a hydraulic clutch is that when you depress the clutch pedal, a pushrod attached to the clutch pedal goes into the master cylinder which forces liquid down the pipe and pushes somethign out of the slave cylinder. Hope this is right.

So firstly, is there a system (master, slave, pipes) that people can simply recommend that I buy? Quick scan of ebay suggest not, although I do see plenty of type-r clutch slave cylinders.

Or will the slave cylinder already come attached to the Type-R gearbox, and therefore at his stage I should just be putting in the master and pipes?

Going back to ebay, there are plenty of individual cylinders. Most of them seem to be for motorbikes rather than cars, and brakes rather than clutch?
I'm guessing that motorbikes cylinders are not large enough?
Or are clutch cylinders smaller than brake, and therefore I could use a motorbike brake cylinder as a car clutch cylinder?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 14th November 2008, 13:16
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limpabit limpabit is offline
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I can only comment on the pg1 Rover gearbox (1.8 K series and T series).

You need a clutch lever for the gearbox and slave, master cylinder from a 600 TI Rover. Now depending on if you have a servo, is a very tight fit to fit. Then with the clutch pipe connectors from the 600 Rover, goto pirtek, http://www.pirtek.co.uk and get them to mate the ends to some copper pipe about 20 including the pipe. Job done.
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  #3  
Old 14th November 2008, 18:09
DavidH DavidH is offline
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For the R65, I'm using a wilwood 0.7 master cylinder from Rally Design, a remote reservoir and drop pipe also from Rally Design.

For the Slave cylinder I'm using a MGF Slave cylinder.

For the mount I've got a custom mount being made by Talon Sportscars.

Can highly recommend Dudley at Talon Sportscars hes very very reasonable for cost and has been on the kitcar scene for ages and knows what hes doing. He is the official build agent for Hawk Sportscars. Am sure he could work something out for you if you want. His contact details are:

Talon Sportscars Ltd
Unit 23
Hathernware Industrial Estate
Station Works
Rempstone Road
Loughborough
Leicestershire LE12 5EW

enquiries@talonsportscars.com

01509 842740
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  #4  
Old 14th November 2008, 18:24
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eaa53 eaa53 is offline
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Smile Good idea - pay someone to do it for you...

Like others I can only comment on Rover PG1 proposals.

If the G/B is currently hydraulic clutch its easier to make the changes.

Let me explain, from the beginning the normal Rover 200 clutch is cable the hydraulics tend to come on the 400 and above.
The clutch actuating arm in the bell housing that engages with the thrust bearing is different between the cable and the hydraulic gearboxes. The arm change is simplicity in its self, if you have the arm to change.

The clutch slave cylinder is mounted to the gearbox casing if you have the slave and the bracket no problem if you are converting, you need to get the pair to match the bolt-on position and the stroke of the cylinder and the movement of the arm. The MGF bracket for example provides the rubber engine mount at the g/b end, the slave mounting and the flexible pipe bracket and the pipe as to the body-work if you get all of it together, now you are cooking.

I used the Rover donor steel pipe from front to back so it screws direct into the clutch master. As an aside because it is ridged it can be bracketed to run high in the tunnel front to back getting it out of the way of the other pipes in the floor of the tunnel.

The master cylinder and pedal are a compromise because the 200 donor box is cable and of no use, the 400, that JD and I used if I recall correctly, is a separate pedal so you have to crop off the cable pedal and mount the 400 pedal onto the front bulkhead panel that is made of 1mm aluminium and will need strengthening. All sounds good but it fouls the heater in a major way so you have to move the heater to the near side and get creative with the heater mod to further reduce its width, I managed to cut and shut the heater with a further 25-30mm removed to avoid protruding into the wheel well of the near side panel. The mounting brackets are then in the wrong place by the way.

So now you have the master cylinder fitted, the clutch master cylinder fluid reservoir now needs mounting, I should have mentioned that any master cylinder with an attached reservoir will not fit under the window screen so you have to have a remote reservoir. I ended up with a special bracket to keep it as close as possible and still on the same level as the master cylinder or you have real problems avoiding the window screen wiper mechanicals and bleeding the bleeding system….. Even with the reservoir lid at the same level as the master cylinder I had to get creative to get it to prime the system and I could not easily get it any higher. Once primed and working it should be no problem.

Super; so now you have a working system, well nearly, you will find that the 400 pedal is now way high in the drivers foot well to allow the master cylinder stroke, to give you the slave stroke, to disengage the clutch.

You may need to grind off and re-weld the foot plate in a different position on the pedal link or just bend the leaver. Bending the leaver is a huge task by the way and not for the faint hearted without a 10 foot scaffold pole to hand and a bench vice mounted on a 10 ton rock bed! And an elephant to provide the force required.

As the advert states.. ‘ for every good idea there must be a dumb idea to balance it up’.

Have you heard the joke about the builder lifting bricks up on to scaffolding with a simple pulley, he gets to the top and it hit’s the scaffolding and the bottom falls out of the barrel and the bricks tumble out and fall on his head, so he lets go of the rope and the barrel falls down onto his head and so on… get the picture.

So you end up with a good idea to change to a hydraulic clutch and spend 3 week solid changing all sorts of things to make it happen, they in turn change other things of less difficulty to solve and eventually its all working………

But you have an hydraulic clutch!


JohnC
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  #5  
Old 14th November 2008, 18:36
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As you'll obviously being going the Honda route (), I'll just add that I used OEM honda slave and master (I have a spare by the way), and used a cut down Rover 200 pedal assembly, with a VW golf mk4 pedal grafted on to the end. I then raided my "might need that one day" box, and found a pedal pivot and made a rather Heath Robinson linkage system to enable me to mount my master cylinder laterally.

That probably sounds harder than it was.

John.
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Old 15th November 2008, 20:00
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I did something different to everyone else and ditched the brake servo to enable me to mount the master cylinder exactly where it needed to be after lots of faffing about!! (Unknown problem at the time forced me to buy new cylinders only to find out this was not the problem ha) Brakes are much better as a result aswell

I also ditched the honda reservoir and took my feed from my brake reservoir which has also worked out much better.

Craig
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  #7  
Old 15th November 2008, 22:49
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Forgot to mention I used the standard rover pedals with brake and clutch pedals shorter and they are spot on! I did not need to alter the heater or heater pipes in any way!
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Old 16th November 2008, 01:20
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Now what Craig says, makes perfect sense. The big problem at the front, is the servo. Without this life would be a lot simpler for the clutch pedel. To get into the right postion. But a assume a heavier right foot for the brake.

I hope this can help for the front pedal. With Servo.

http://www.kitcar.good-hosting.co.uk/dash.htm
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Old 16th November 2008, 10:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limpabit View Post
Now what Craig says, makes perfect sense. The big problem at the front, is the servo. Without this life would be a lot simpler for the clutch pedel. To get into the right postion. But a assume a heavier right foot for the brake.

I hope this can help for the front pedal. With Servo.

http://www.kitcar.good-hosting.co.uk/dash.htm
John, actually the pedal isn't really noticebly heavier which I think is down to the car being so light! I wouldn't want to try it on a family car, but what you can notice is how much more you can feel the brakes! And you save weight

I am sure one day next year we will meet up and you can have a try by which time your will be 300+ turbo and mine will be 300+ supercharged

Craig
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  #10  
Old 20th November 2008, 15:03
MikeN MikeN is offline
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Chaps I am investigating going the hydraulic clutch route (K1.8vvc/PG1 Box). Am sourcing the bit's and bob's for the gearbox end however the front end (pedal and master cylinder) becomes a little more complicated. Have seen the following available:
http://www2.obp.uk.net/catalog/produ...108b295ef25d59

Any ideas if this would work or not?

MikeN
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  #11  
Old 20th November 2008, 15:48
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I used the Rover 200 pedals and the Rover 600 master cylinder. To get a good position for the clutch pedal, you need to ditch the servo. I've left mine in position for now and living with it.

Here's mine.

http://www.kitcar.good-hosting.co.uk/dash.htm
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