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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #641  
Old 23rd July 2012, 17:00
Stuart Stuart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
When I was installing my dual diaphragm brake servo I noticed that the pedal box side deforms and twists when I press my clutch.
My pedal box uses the BMW e30 clutch master cylinder.

I'm thinking of adding a supporting bracket on the battery box similar to Ian Morris' installation....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58068042@N07/6696285663/

Can you get a picture of where yours has failed?

...peter
Peter

The weld around the tube the pedal bolts through has given way also the only strengthening brace has buckled.

Not a good picture but I hope you can get to see the issue.



I have sent it away to be welded and have some extra strengthening fillets fitted if it still flexes when i refit then I may well look at Ian's resolution.

I have also now ordered a BMC4052 Master Cylinder through Brakes International bargain at 38

Stuart
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  #642  
Old 23rd July 2012, 21:17
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I also strengthen the pedal box a lot:





The metal the throttle pedal sits resembles tinfoil. The clutch pedal assembly just didn't work, so I installed a willwood master cylinder and the cage for the master cylinder taking the stresses away from the pedal box:



See the smaller nuts inside the ground cable loop and towards the front - thats where the cage is bolted to. There is a thicker plate on the top to re-enforce the area.

You can see the clutch master installation here:





I'm considering options to change the whole thing to a properly design and tested pedal box system, but not had enough time to look into it recently.
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  #643  
Old 25th July 2012, 18:24
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peterux peterux is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
Peter

The weld around the tube the pedal bolts through has given way also the only strengthening brace has buckled.

Not a good picture but I hope you can get to see the issue.



I have sent it away to be welded and have some extra strengthening fillets fitted if it still flexes when i refit then I may well look at Ian's resolution.

I have also now ordered a BMC4052 Master Cylinder through Brakes International bargain at 38

Stuart
Thanks, Stuart, I can see the failure. I think Ian's mod should prevent this kind of problem. I'll have to add it to my list of winter jobs.
...Peter
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  #644  
Old 11th November 2012, 19:17
Mike Mike is offline
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Default Rose Joint

Due to the alignment of the servo with the brake pedal, which seems to vary from car to car, and has caused some owners a problem with using a clevis, it is a good idea to use a rose joint instead to connect the pedal to the new servo.

The correct rose joint is a 3/8" x 3/8" female right hand thread rose joint. Patrick sourced his from:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180425540596

They sound good quality, and are remarkably good value at only 9.50 including postage.
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  #645  
Old 12th November 2012, 11:08
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
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Hmm, interesting.

Must admit I did not read fully previous threads regarding this issue because when I fitted my clevis pin it just slotted perfectly into place with only a few turns to line up the holes. But the servo assembly is mounted on the angled bulkhead just like everyone elses, so must create that same angle at the clevis pin / pedal fixing point.

So, in retrospect. its logical that I change the clevis pin for the rose fitting to avoid premature failure of the servo unit due to the angle created.

Hope I have understood the problem correctly.

Difficult to lie on your back on the floor of the car and look up while someone pushes the pedal to see how it all works.

By the way Patrick, the fitting of your servo and the associated pipework is a work of art, beautiful to look at ( like the rest of the car ).

Interesting thought occured,................ as you are all thinking about possibly changing your brake pipes because of the ethanol problem ( deteriorisation of pipes ) how does that affect our daily runabouts ? Those of us who have petrol cars that is ?
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  #646  
Old 12th November 2012, 11:44
Mike Mike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denniswpearce View Post
Hmm, interesting.

Must admit I did not read fully previous threads regarding this issue because when I fitted my clevis pin it just slotted perfectly into place with only a few turns to line up the holes. But the servo assembly is mounted on the angled bulkhead just like everyone elses, so must create that same angle at the clevis pin / pedal fixing point.

So, in retrospect. its logical that I change the clevis pin for the rose fitting to avoid premature failure of the servo unit due to the angle created.

Hope I have understood the problem correctly.
Hi Dennis

If your clevis lined up with your pedal, and you did not have to force the pedal, or pin, to get it through both clevis holes - (very difficult to do, when you are lying on your back, with both feet stuck up in the air, struggling to get both hands in to a restricted space!) - then I think you are fortunate and you don't need to make any changes. Yours should be fine.

My suggestion was primarily aimed at those yet to fit their servos, and anyone who struggled to make the clevis/pedal/pin line up.
For the sake of a 10 rose joint, it guarantees making the fitting easy and safe.

My suggestion was prompted when I saw Dave Cunnington's Cabrio. His brake pedal had had the bolt welded in place, and meant the clevis would only fit by using significant lateral force.
In situations like this, it is would have been much easier from the outset to have started with a rose joint, which is designed to accommodate angle changes.
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  #647  
Old 12th November 2012, 14:06
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Thanks Dennis

I think it would have been Ok without the rose joint as there is minimal movement. On thinking about it I decided to do it anyway as I had everything out and it meant removing any slop between the pedal and the servo - even if it was minimal. As a technical solution I like it better than the old setup. Also have all my pedals on needle bearings so it made sense to have the connection to the servo on a bearing too.
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  #648  
Old 21st November 2012, 08:46
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Richard drove it on Sunday for the first time, he was very impressed. Says it feels much more like modern tin tops. Much easier to be progressive with the brakes. I need to bleed it again to get rid of little bit of spongy feeling.

I have to say a big thanks from both of us for everyone involved, this sort it thing is why I really like this forum
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  #649  
Old 21st November 2012, 22:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Richard drove it on Sunday for the first time, he was very impressed. Says it feels much more like modern tin tops. Much easier to be progressive with the brakes. I need to bleed it again to get rid of little bit of spongy feeling.

I have to say a big thanks from both of us for everyone involved, this sort it thing is why I really like this forum
Thanks Patrick. I think everyone who has fitted this servo has been genuinely very pleased with the improvement - there have now been over 50 of us who have bought one ( I say bought, because I am sure there are still quite a few who have not fitted them yet, waiting until winter sets in before taking their Marlin off the road to do all the jobs like this one).

Big up for GOO who spotted the original advert and started the ball rolling:
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  #650  
Old 9th August 2013, 20:30
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Default Servo / Rose Joints Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post

Due to the alignment of the servo with the brake pedal, which seems to vary from car to car, and has caused some owners a problem with using a clevis, it is a good idea to use a rose joint instead to connect the pedal to the new servo.

The correct rose joint is a 3/8" x 3/8" female right hand thread rose joint. Patrick sourced his from:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180425540596

They sound good quality, and are remarkably good value at only 9.50 including postage.
Quick update.
The above rose joint will not suit most owners requirements - the bolt welded to the brake pedal is, in most cases, 10mm which is slightly larger than a 3/8" eye hole.

The best solution is a 3/8" UNF male thread rose joint with a 10mm eye , together with a 3/8" UNF female collar thread about 25mm long . The rose joint can be obtained from ABC (Anglia bearing Company) part no. MP061F39.
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  #651  
Old 10th August 2013, 23:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
Quick update.

The best solution is a 3/8" UNF male thread rose joint with a 10mm eye , together with a 3/8" UNF female collar thread about 25mm long . The rose joint can be obtained from ABC (Anglia bearing Company) part no. MP061F39.


The latest kit has been upgraded to include the rose joint.



Existing adopters of the Dual servo might wish to consider adopting a rose joint to avoid misalignment issues? It is a cheap and relatively easy swap, and may avoid future problems?
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  #652  
Old 11th August 2013, 20:35
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I highly recommend using the rose joint
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  #653  
Old 15th March 2014, 06:48
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Default Rose Joint Now Fitted

There have been 49 Marlin members who bought one of our dual 7" servo upgrade kits - which must be a high percentage of all the non Ford engined Sportsters and Cabrio/Hunters, and says a lot about what the they thought of their original brake set up.

There has been one issue which affected a small number of owners, where the servo would continue to apply a gentle force to the brakes after taking their foot off the pedal, causing them to over heat.
It seemed to affect the Zinc plated servos more than the black powder coated ones. Initially these were returned to the supplier as faulty, but through time I have come to believe that it may have had more to do with the way the Marlin servo is aligned with the pedal in the Marlin designed pedal box.




Marlin offset the angle of the pedal pivot and the servo mounting face, to create more space in both the footwell and the engine bay. The angle is evident in the above photo: the pedal box is lined up with the grout lines in the tiles, highlighting the servo angle in the foreground......

Whilst this did not seem to affect the Metro servo, which would tolerate a significant offset, the vaccum seal in the rear of the new dual 7" servo seems much more sensitive, and if it does not seat correctly appears to lead to brake binding complications.

I drilled, and then slightly elongated, a hole through my brake pedal, and fitted a clevis around the pedal using a clevis pin to achieve the alignment I wanted. Other owners left the Marlin welded in bolt and chose to mount the clevis to one side of their pedal.

Patrick and a couple of others used rose joints which are a much better solution ( and I wish I had thought of this when putting the kit together). It allows the push rod/pedal connection to bolted up tight, yet freely accepts the offset angle, and also accommodates the change in angle as the pedal travels through its arc.
So, when my clutch master cylinder failed (due to poor alignment - caused by me!) and I had to remove my pedal box yet again! - I chose to replace my brake clevis with a rose joint at the same time.

For anyone interested in adopting the rose joint solution, the servo has 3/8" UNF threads, but the bolt that is usually welded into the Marlin pedal is 10mm. If you buy a straight forward 3/8" rose joint, it will come with a 3/8" hole in the rose joint (which is slightly less than 10mm). Also all the rose joints I have located were all just too short to screw onto the servo and allow the pedal to be set where I wanted it.

My solution was to buy a 10mm rose joint, and a 3/8" x 20mm collar, and to spot weld them together.
I have been very careful to then allow the rose joint to locate laterally against the pedal in its central rest position, and used a couple of washers on the pedal pivot to ensure they lined up perfectly laterally.
Job done.
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  #654  
Old 10th June 2014, 17:59
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Further update - hopefully the final solution!

Jason Cundall (GOO in these circles) had brake binding problems travelling home from Stoneleigh. After investigating the option to fit a rose joint, he decided it would not line up as well as his centralised clevis, so offered no solution to his problem.

In response to his reported problem in a post on the MOC, Jon Cox came back with this sound advice: - fit a pedal return spring - all modern vehicles have one: and offered a very simple, elegant solution.



Jason followed this advice, fitting a Landrover pedal spring (ebay 2.20 for 2)





and offered the following comment:

Courtesy of Jason on MOC Forum:

"It's fixed.
It only took one spring, and I basically followed the same idea as in Jon's picture. I made a small plate that sits on the clevis pin that has a hole for the spring to sit in, and then hooked the other end of it to a bracket I mounted on an existing bolt.

- it works like a charm. After fitting it after work today, I blatted round town for 45 mins in all sorts of traffic (fast dual carriage way, town centre, etc etc), and it's been fine. Pedal comes up fully and immediately after taking your foot off, and there's no noticeable extra effort in pushing the pedal down now there's a spring on it. No more binding / squeaky brakes, takes off like missile now, probably doing the world of good to the fuel economy. Happy "
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  #655  
Old 16th June 2014, 11:16
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I did a write up of the mod with a diagram of where the bits go here:

http://www.greatoldone.co.uk/blog/20...ing-brake.html

I'm not entirely clear as to why my clevis lines up so well with the pedal on vikki, when everyone else's seem to be off... But this mod should work with the rose joint solution as well.
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  #656  
Old 16th June 2014, 16:40
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
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You were not alone with the clevis pin lining up. Mine also was a perfect fit but never had issues with binding brakes either.
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  #657  
Old 26th September 2015, 09:54
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Hi All,

A long shot here, but does anyone have one of these kits which they are yet to fit or no longer want?

I am looking to modify the brakes on the Sportster so it actually stops in what I would call a normal amount of time, any help would be appreciated.

Cheers Jono
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  #658  
Old 26th September 2015, 12:52
NigelB NigelB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONORacing View Post
Hi All,

A long shot here, but does anyone have one of these kits which they are yet to fit or no longer want?

I am looking to modify the brakes on the Sportster so it actually stops in what I would call a normal amount of time, any help would be appreciated.

Cheers Jono
Hi Jono

I don't have one but I was looking at these a couple of days ago for another project http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/300803456966

Nigel
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  #659  
Old 26th September 2015, 18:06
NigelB NigelB is offline
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Or this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-DUAL-ZIN...item4609059027

This is the 7" version which should fit in the Sportster.
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  #660  
Old 26th September 2015, 22:55
Mike Mike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONORacing View Post
Hi All,

A long shot here, but does anyone have one of these kits which they are yet to fit or no longer want?

I am looking to modify the brakes on the Sportster so it actually stops in what I would call a normal amount of time, any help would be appreciated.

Cheers Jono
Hi Jono
I have some adaptor plates left over but no servos
Be careful about the links you have been given
The black servos are a different make to the zinc servos . We had everyone using the zinc servos come back with sticking brakes
Regards
Mike
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