Spyder - lowering the front

[MikeD]

Having found some time to start at last - 1st job was to get her flat - so have cut down the front springs by 4" and she looks about right - question is anyone done the same and found springs now are loose when you jack up the car. This is ok when let down slowly but concern is fast over a hump bridge and they move a bit. Is there a replacement short shock to avoid this? - also any recommendations for a radiator header tank
cheers Mike

[davecymru]

I've also cut mine down and while my MOT man doesn't like it ( i had to fit a replacement set of springs for my MOT - but lets not go there!), all the book says is that they have to be able to re-seat themselves automatically.

So that sort of covers your query here. What i did with mine is to swap the shocks to GAZ height adjustable ones and I also drilled a small hole in the shock top plate and fed a cable tie around the top of the spring to keep it roughly in place, but while still allowing it to move as it compresses etc.

The bottom seat of the shocks i then ground a small radius so that the spring is still held in place and can't move when seated fully, but when the springs do come off when jacked up, as i lower it they simply automatically re-seat. This covers the MOT bit


The lanes around me a quite bumpy but i've yet to encounter a situation where i get enough "air" for long enough for the shock to completely come off of the seat and then re-seat! But then again i've not really been trying



Header tank - both Pat and I ended up with Renault Megane ones.

I chose mine by going to a breakers yard and telling him what i was up to and then we went through the big pile and chose one small enough that would mount in the position i wanted.

[MoriniMan]

Cutting springs down makes them stiffer. A lighter car needs softer springs and you've probably made them 30% stiffer!

A rough rule of thumb is if the spring becomes unloaded at full droop it's too stiff for road use. The lightest stock Triumph spring is 150lb/in (Mk1 Spit?)and I think I was down to 80lb/inch springs on the Moss Monaco (fairly sure it was less than 100lb/in). Compliant suspension goves you a better ride and often better roadholding too.

[AndyP57]

What some (Myself included) have done is to reposition the rubber button from the underside of the spring seat to above it, consequently lowering the seat and allowing both lower and upper seats to contact the shortened spring at 'no load' position.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by AndyP57

What some (Myself included) have done is to reposition the rubber button from the underside of the spring seat to above it, consequently lowering the seat and allowing both lower and upper seats to contact the shortened spring at 'no load' position.

Yes, I cut my front springs down by 95mm and by moving both rubber 'washers' on the top of the damper to above the spring seat my springs no longer come loose under full extension. As for softer springs I understand the principles but I'm going to give it a go with the standard Vitesse ones cut down first. After all, the iron six is pretty heavy and doesn't have much ground clearance.

I'm not too worried about the handling either so long as it's safe. I'm not planning to throw it around too much, I'm going to leave the track days to the Caterham crowd, I just want to experience the thrill of driving something from another era, no matter how slowly.

[MoriniMan]

Originally Posted by Mister Towed

I'm not too worried about the handling either so long as it's safe.

I deliberately didn't mention handling.

I'm not planning to throw it around too much, I'm going to leave the track days to the Caterham crowd, I just want to experience the thrill of driving something from another era, no matter how slowly.

Which is precisely why I think you should be going with soft springs. Leave the over-stiff suspension to 'da youf' in their Corsas and Golfs, go for some ride comfort!

[MikeD]

Thanks Guys for all the priceless info. Megane header tank ordered and seems Demon Tweeks have a whole range of Helper Springs that should do the job.
Todays tasks are fit the battery after making a recessed tray for it and then the radiator.. then onto the floor plans - have tried my seats - XK120 Jag, but too high - look like a cuckoo on the nest, so it's lower the pans or have to loose half the squab foam! Too old for that need a bit of comfort!

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Thanks Guys for all the priceless info. Megane header tank ordered and seems Demon Tweeks have a whole range of Helper Springs that should do the job.
Todays tasks are fit the battery after making a recessed tray for it and then the radiator.. then onto the floor plans - have tried my seats - XK120 Jag, but too high - look like a cuckoo on the nest, so it's lower the pans or have to loose half the squab foam! Too old for that need a bit of comfort!

I had the same problem with the MGB seats I intended to put in mine, they stuck out the top of the body about three inches -



I hoped to address the issue by lowering the pans four inches, but then found that the outward curve of the chassis under the seats pushed them too far outboard so they wouldn't sit upright -



Ultimately, they were just too big to fit the Spyder cockpit and I replaced them with Dax Cobra seats that fit perfectly.



Anyway, good luck with your lowering job and with fitting the Jag seats, I hope they're narrow enough.

[davecymru]

hummm Helper springs! I'd not heard of them previously, MANY thanks i'll have a nosey as I think those will keep my picky MOT man happy

[donnysoutherner]

I love this forum. I too had never heard of helper springs. Looks like they will do the trick.

[Mister Towed]

I'd never heard of helper springs before, but I found this useful resource on the internet -

http://www.helpersprings.net/

Shame it's written in Mandaringlish. Anyone know what a vechile is?

[MoriniMan]

There are helper springs that are designed for things like towing. They're usually a rubber ring that fits between the coils to make the spring stiffer. They're also quite good at popping out and bending the damper if it's fitted inside the spring. They're not recommended by the RAC, AA, or caravan club and are potentially dodgy from an insurance point of view.

The helper springs being talked about are like this;


They're pretty soft and designed go coil bound with the vehicle at rest.

To fit them you also need a collar


By the time you've bought the helper springs and the collars, you could have just bought a set of softer springs that restored the original ride height.

Here's an old thread from this very forum!

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3312

[seanick]

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3312

It was covered here a bit.
I agree with lighter car needs softer springs. The softer springs extend to the normal length so dont unseat when you go over a hump. The softer rating lowers the car and keeps the tyres on the road.
Cheers,
Nick

[donnysoutherner]

Originally Posted by seanick

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=3312

It was covered here a bit.
I agree with lighter car needs softer springs. The softer springs extend to the normal length so dont unseat when you go over a hump. The softer rating lowers the car and keeps the tyres on the road.
Cheers,
Nick

So does anyone know what rating of spring might do the trick?

[seanick]

Erm, you could read the posts on the link....or 140/150lb.

[davecymru]

Based on my Spyder driving experiences so-far with my cut-down springs with a 2L engine i do have to say that i'm very happy with it.

That said, yup it's fairly hard and i fully expect that it wouldn't be to everyone's tastes, but that is one of the reasons i have nice soft seats fitted

This isn't to say that i won't experiment with softer spring at some point in the future and i may well be "sold" on them when i do. But i just wanted to get across the point that cut down std springs do work and are live-able, but may just not be suitable for the more.... elderly... members of the forum

[Mister Towed]

I'm possibly missing the point here, but the way I read it, helper springs don't soften the spring rate one iota. The info. on the web clearly states that they are designed to completely bind with the unladen vehicle at rest and are only there to stop shorter springs from unseating at full travel. As I've cut mine down to the point where they remain seated anyway at full travel (just!) adding helper springs would only serve to raise the suspension by the thickness of the fully compressed helper spring. I'd then have to cut down the main spring by the same amount to reinstate the desired ride height, stiffening it even further.

I'm with Dave C - I'll try it for a while with the standard springs cut down and experiment with softer springs if I'm not happy with the ride at a later date. I've been out as a passenger in Phil J's BRG Spyder - 2500 straight six, standard Vitesse springs cut down by 90mm and a thicker front anti roll bar - and I don't recall the ride being particularly harsh. But then I did have a huge silly grin on my face for at least an hour after he left.

[MoriniMan]

Originally Posted by micha

"Erm, you could read the posts on the link....or 140/150lb"

which also clearly says:

"12" free length (same as standard, if you use shorter with the same shocks then the springs will become unseated if you go airbourne)."

Micha, you're working on the assumption that we're talking about lowering the suspension.

We're not really, we're talking about restoring the original ride height having removed considerable weight from the suspension (although we may be lowing a bit from standard too).

[MoriniMan]

Quite a good article on spring rates and resultant wheel frequency (ride quality).

http://www.duttonownersclub.co.uk/Me...es/springs.pdf

[oxford1360]

Cracking article. Thanks MM for pointing us to it.