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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Miglia Builds and discussion

Miglia Builds and discussion Miglia bodied builds

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  #121  
Old 24th December 2018, 09:25
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Hi Deni, your welding looks to be pretty good to me (if any pro welders disagree, please bear in mind that I'm a self-taught amateur welder myself, so I just mean it looks strong enough for our purposes), while your fibreglassing also looks like it'll do the job, just watch out for bubbles when using the cloth rather than the matting.

As for a fibreglass bulkhead being an mot fail, possibly your mate might have experience of an mot tester failing fibreglass repairs to a corroded structural bulkhead in a monocoque car, but there's nothing in the MOT Testers' manual to suggest that bulkheads need to be metal, otherwise how would fibreglass cars like Lotus Elans, Elites, Europas and Reliant Scimitars pass their MOT's?

The pertinent sections of the MOT manual for us are:

Appendix A, Section 8 - Vehicles with Separate bodies. This accepts that, where a vehicle has a separate chassis and body with supporting sub-structure, it is the integrity of the sub-structure that is critical, not the condition of the body.

Main manual, Section 6 - Body Structure and Attachments. Again, this talks about corrosion but not materials used to construct the vehicle in the first place.

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov....als/class3457/

Also, it's worth trawling round your local MOT testing stations until you find one who understands classic cars, hot rods and specials as they're far less likely to reject a car on the basis that they just don't understand it.

'My' tester, for example, drives a 70's Toyota Celica with a V6 motor grafted in and is restoring a pre-war Morris. He won't break the rules to get my cars through the test, but he will very carefully read the guidance notes and apply the rules appropriately to a non-standard vehicle.

I'd also point out that, once correctly registered (emphasis to try to avoid any accusation of using photoshopped registration documents from Rochdale GT) your car will almost certainly be MOT exempt anyway.

Having said that, it'll still need to be both safe and road-legal, and I personally will continue to MOT my classics/kits just for the peace of mind of an annual independent safety check.

Anyway, good luck with your Miglia, it looks like you have or are developing all the skills you'll need to do a fine job.

Sorry for repeating some of what Paul says above, I hadn't noticed that he'd posted while I had breakfast.
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  #122  
Old 24th December 2018, 14:39
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Hi Barber, Paul L and Mister Towed,

Thank you for replying so quickly, on a such a lovely Christmas day.

Barber - Thank you for your comments. I would recommend to try using a MIG welder. It just seems easier to use compared to an Arc welder.

Paul L and Mister Towed - Thank you for your encouragement and advice too, as well as for the clarification regarding the bulkhead, very helpful.

I am still in two minds about the bulkhead. If I decide to use fibreglass one I might clad it with thin, lightweight aluminium just to be safe. Paul I enjoy reading your on the road blog and Mister Towed, I also follow your new roadster build - I hope to see more developments soon.
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  #123  
Old 24th December 2018, 15:03
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Hi all,

I know that the regulations have changed and that already registered cars, older than 40 years are tax and MOT exempt, but I will continue to MOT my car anyway, just to stay safe (I have another classic car from 1976).

However, I am not sure what happens in our case, when we have to put the car back on the road after the build, so I have a few questions please:

1- I know that in the past people would send the papers to DVLA to change the details on V5 before having their MOT done. Is that still the case please? Can I already send the documentation to DVLA? If not, how do we go on about this currently please?


2- If a donor car is MOT free, is it still required to do your first MOT when you've finished re-body-ing a car?



Thank you.

Cheers, D.
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  #124  
Old 24th December 2018, 19:19
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Hi Deni, this have changed since the local DVLA offices have closed as every thing is now done by post!!!

To correctly register your car you'll need to fill-out form V627/1 and include receipts, photos ect.

Personally, I send the completed V627/1, the current V5 (with changes clearly marked) , receipts for the body conversion, a good photo of the car before, during and after the conversion (clearly showing the registration number), plus a photo of the chassis plate number or stamp and engine number.
I also included a new MOT certificate, this proves the car has been built to a road worthy standard, confirms the conversion is completed, confirms the chassis number, confirms the colour change and in most cases the MOT tester will change the VOSA details on his computer i.e. model, colour ect.

.IMHO I think DVLA look upon a MOT test as a form of "independent" inspection.

So it's worth sending a few quid getting an MOT test when your build is ready and before you register it.

Another thing to remember is when fill-out the V627/1 you only give basic simple understandable information and never mention "kit" or "used" or "second hand".
In my recent experience and using the info above the re-registering process takes around 2 weeks from posting the paperwork to receiving the up-dated V5.
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  #125  
Old 25th December 2018, 00:53
deni deni is offline
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micky1mo - thank you for the advice, very helpful and much appreciated.I am only a bit worried about the fact that I have bought a rolling chassis with engine only, and I don’t have any photos of the donor car before it was stripped down and no original reg plates. I have the chassis plate and correct V5.

Is this going to be a problem?

Thank you.

Cheers,D
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  #126  
Old 25th December 2018, 10:35
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DVLA are now asking for photos a lot more.

It's now common for them to ask for proof that a car exists ie, photo of the car and VIN location, when applying for a new style V5 replacing the old style blue V5.

Not having a photo of the original car displaying it's original registration number might be an issue and DVLA will probably ask for one.

I would recommend doing some research on your car and you might find a photo or reference to it.
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  #127  
Old 25th December 2018, 12:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deni View Post
Hi everyone,

After being away for nearly 4 months I am back in the garage to continue working on the Miglia.

I have done the body trial fit - even if it looks that the body is not very straight, once it is clamped to the frame it actually fits much better and I think I will be able to position it correctly.




Attachment 5731
I know Chris at Tribute has just corrected the ''leftness'' of these bodies rear ends for a customer by cutting the bulkhead area on the drivers side ...its a fairly easy correction apparently , so might be worth messaging or emailing him .... When the S*mmio became a fully bodied / non flip fronted option , something happened !
Its all fixable though ...
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  #128  
Old 28th December 2018, 22:54
deni deni is offline
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micky1mo - thank you for your advice. I am afraid I will have to research a bit more about this.

lancelot link - thank you for the tip. I will try to have a chat with Chris and check if it is within my capabilities to do what he did. I like how your Formosas look when they are finished, especially the long nose one.
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  #129  
Old 1st January 2019, 17:25
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Deni – Sorry, I meant to post another reply and forgot.

There is some useful stuff on welding splatter here:

http://weldinganswers.com/7-causes-o...liminate-them/

Keep practising, as I was definitely better at welding by the end of my build compared to the start.

The same can be said for my ability to work with fibreglass, as that also got better as I did more of it.

Have you checked the height/shape of the top of the bulkhead so it is a match for the inside curve of the bodyshell?

As it would be easier to extend the height now and trim it back to fit as required later on.

Good luck, Paul.
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  #130  
Old 1st January 2019, 18:31
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for your comments. You’re right, I am getting better results with more practice.
I have not measured the top of the bulkhead yet, but the idea was (if I decide to use this bulkhead) to make a separate top part and to laminate it to this existing bulkhead copy. I thought it would be easier to finish this part of once the body is in it’s final position and bonded to the subframe.

Cheers,D.
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  #131  
Old 5th January 2019, 08:55
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Deni – I saw your painting question ‘next door’, so thought you might like this.

https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/te...ting-car-98714

Good luck, Paul.
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  #132  
Old 5th January 2019, 11:59
deni deni is offline
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Hi Paul L - thank you for the link. I was just curious about his experience with painting a fiberglass car using roller. Actually, reading your thread, back then when you were painting the Swordfish, was what inspired and convinced me that hand painting my car is the way to go.
So I will be reading your painting part of the thread again later on, as you have provided quite a lot of detail there, so thanks for that too.

Cheers, D
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  #133  
Old 6th January 2019, 09:19
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Deni – No worries, as Jerome/Rob’s use of a roller on his build inspired me too.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

With hindsight, my top lessons learned from hand painting my car are:

Buy twice as much paint as you think you might need as a single batch.
- Due to some bad paint reactions and other problems, I ended up running out of top coat.
- Then the small extra tin I bought to finish the job was a slightly different shade of BRG.
- So I then had to buy even more paint to get the same colour all over from a single tin.

Use paint that is something like Rustoleum or the narrow boat stuff, rather than the synthetic paint I used.
- As whilst the synthetic paint went on shiny using a brush, it didn’t look as shiny when sanded back flat.

Use a proper polishing machine (see JaguarTVR’s suggestions on my build thread).
- As the problems I had with sanding back may have been made worse by using the wrong tool.

Try to avoid painting during the hottest summer since the legendary heat wave of 1976.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The fact you have a garage to do the painting in will be a big help and should make your life easier.

As the fact I need to cover my car with a tarpaulin is making a real mess of my paint.

Overall, the fact my paintwork is less than perfect doesn’t stop my enjoyment of the car.

Good luck, Paul.
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  #134  
Old 8th January 2019, 01:20
deni deni is offline
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Paul L - thank you very much for the advice, very helpful. Rustoleum paint sounds like a good idea. I remember you having a problem with different shades of green, so thanks for the tip regarding the paint quantities too.
You are also right when you say that, no matter how the paintwork turns out, it will not stop us enjoying driving our cars, that's for sure...

However, at the moment I am still "agonizing" as to which type and thickness of the metal I should use to fabricate the bulkhead...or do I use my fiberglass copy of the bulkhead, cover it with thin aluminium sheet to make it more fire resistant and glass it to the frame...or is that a silly idea??? ....any comments and advice would be appreciated.

Cheers, D
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  #135  
Old 9th January 2019, 09:27
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Deni - Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about will be along in a minute.

But in the meantime here are my (limited experience) thoughts for what they are worth…

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fire resistance:

This website appears to be offering a FIA approved TVR Griffith body shell.

http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ec...ct&db_pid=4366



I don't know, but assume that the FIA have fire resistance standards that this fibreglass shell meets?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fabricating the bulkhead in metal:

I had no idea what I was doing when I started repairing my rusting bulkhead.

But with very limited tools and skills, I was able to make various metal Frankenstein shapes.

Brake master cylinder recess



Sunken battery box



Plus numerous shaped repair panels to tackle the rust.





But my lack of experience meant that I spend months and months on the bulkhead.

However, ironically, making one from scratch may take less time than repairing an existing one.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sammio Cordite:

This is a photo of DonnySoutherner's Cordite build



Which did use the fibreglass bulkhead that the Cordite was originally supplied with.
( I removed this section from my own build as part of 'Project HillBilly'. )



The key point to note is that the framework underneath had a panel to support the pedals.



Given my Spitfire's brakes are a mix of discs and drums, there have been time when I have really pressed the brake pedal.

So I guess ensuring the pedal area is strong enough would be a key point.

But, again, I assume the Griffith shell above is strong enough to support the pedals.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hope that helps, good luck, Paul.

Last edited by Paul L; 9th January 2019 at 09:31.. Reason: Typo
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  #136  
Old 11th January 2019, 14:19
deni deni is offline
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Paul L-Thank you very much for the photos and the link to the Griffith internet page. Looking forward to read it.
My frame came without pedal attachment plate but I have bought a 6mm steel plate to weld onto the frame to mount the pedals, as my bulkhead would not be strong enough.
My main concern is how fire resistant my fiberglass bulkhead would be but the photos you have posted confirm that they are suitable.

Thank you very much for your help and advice, it is much appreciated. I know I have a lot of questions but I will get there...

Cheers, D.
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  #137  
Old 12th January 2019, 18:43
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Just catching up on this, in case it helps i also had to rejig my pedal plate and steering column mounts as well! So (as ever) i went a bit OTT i did a frame extension in 25x25x3mm steel box section with a 4mm steel plate on the top.

After that my bulkhead was fabricated in bonded and rivited aluminium which i got from metals4you.co.uk

I started with this








But also ended up totally altering the steering column part so that i could fit space behind my flush mounted instruments and ended with this.









Hope this helps a bit?
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  #138  
Old 12th January 2019, 19:00
deni deni is offline
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davecymry-thanks for your help, always much appreciated. Your build pages are my regular place to go when I am trying to figure things out. Good luck with the front springs tinkering...

Cheers,D
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  #139  
Old 12th January 2019, 19:15
deni deni is offline
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Hi Dave,
I forgot to ask, Did you put anything in between aluminium and steel frame to separate them? I see on the photos that you have applied something where the rivets are.

Was that aluminium angle you've used?

Did you use aluminium or steel rivets please?

Thank you.

Cheers,Deni
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  #140  
Old 13th January 2019, 13:15
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The Alloy sheets were 2000x1000x1.2mm
The angle was 3/4 x 3/4 / 1/16
Alloy rivets (LOTS of them)
and everything seated and bonded with Tiger Seal (nasty, horrible, sticky stuff that it is to cut out of your hair)
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