Are you madabout kit cars      
 "We've Got Kit Cars Covered" Information about Madabout-Kitcars.com Contact Madabout-Kitcars.com         Home of UK kit cars - madabout-kitcars.com Various kit car write ups All the latest kit car news Kit car related and general discussion

Search
Manufacturers
Kit Cars
Kit Car Data sheets
Picture Gallery
SVA Knowledgebase
Clubs & Communities
Build cost estimator
Kit cars for sale
Knowledge Base 
KitcarUSA.com
Classic-Kitcars.com
 

Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Dino 246 Builds and Discussion

Dino 246 Builds and Discussion Da da da da daaa daa da da, ohoho Dino

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 3rd February 2017, 17:11
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi
Yes similar. The LB has the struts in a more upright position rather than inclined inwards as on the mgf.
I've started on mounting my focus rs box to my spare cosworth v6. I've upended the v6 engine and machined a spigot bearing that fits in to the v6 crankshaft. I will now bore this to fit the input shaft on the focus box thus centring it ready to mark out my adaptor plate.
Ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 026.jpg (96.6 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg 028.jpg (90.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 029.jpg (89.7 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 4th February 2017, 18:36
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi
I've turned the other end of the spigot jig and fitted to the gearbox. I now need to mate the two together and start on the adaptor plate.
ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 006.jpg (90.9 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg 007.jpg (92.6 KB, 26 views)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 8th February 2017, 09:03
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

hi

With the jig pressed into the end of the V6's crank I've lowered the M66 gearbox via the splined input shaft onto the engine. this will centralise engine and gearbox.Looks like everything will work. Now on to plot the mounting holes for the adaptor plate. I have the bolt pattern for the v6 block but I can't find the bolt pattern sizes for the Volvo/Ford M66 box anywhere. Anyone have any idea's?

Ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 001.jpg (94.7 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 002.jpg (95.7 KB, 26 views)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 19th February 2017, 15:26
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi all

Does anyone who reads this know much about the Vw/audi 02m 6 speed box?
As fitted to the RS3 and cupra.
Been told these can handle more power than the ford focus st/rs box and they are easier to get hold of. Plus spares and LSD's are much cheaper.
I also like that the starter is bolted through the gearbox rather than from the engine side.And it's cable operated like the ford box too.

ian
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 21st February 2017, 05:37
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default

Re-reading this I remembered that Hondas of the 80s and 90s used to have very low bonnet lines - and so shorter strut (or wishbone/strut) front suspensions. Nowadays cars have higher bonnet lines to add a couple of inches of crumple for the poor pedestrians who get hit.
I'm no suspension expert but you do get the geometry by drawing a line from the top of the strut and intersecting it with the line created by the bottom wishbone. So I guess just shortening the strut would have an effect on geometry.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 23rd February 2017, 10:03
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi

I've seen this diagram before. I would guess if the strut is shortened along the same radius it would still be ok? Looking at the photos I've attached LB's struts look almost vertical.

Ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 010.jpg (96.0 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg 008.jpg (95.6 KB, 29 views)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 25th February 2017, 03:11
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default shortening struts

If you take 2" off this strut and redraw the diagram you can see a big change in the roll centre height and the virtual reaction point.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 25th February 2017, 11:25
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up chassis

Hi

You're showing a drawing here of the front suspension. I'm going to copy the front suspension from my deon and it will be the same just new hub carriers.
It's the rear suspension I'm looking at altering. I know that just loping of 2" off will alter the swing radius as you say,this is must be why the LB struts are more upright.To Keep the virtual radius with a shorter strut the same moving the top mounting point out then will surely bring it back in line?
I'm hoping to get my adaptor plate cnc'd either this/next week and will start by building the engine cradle/suspension. I want to keep as close to the deon as possible.

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 26th February 2017, 01:50
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi, by the way - please take my comments about engineering and suspension with a pinch of salt! I don't pretend to know much about either. If you want knowledgable feedback and people aren't answering on here then maybe posting some questions on the middy section of the locust site would get you useful responses. I'm following the discussion with interest.
cheers
Ross
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 27th February 2017, 06:10
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default Lancia Montecarlo Scorpion rear suspension

Hi, here's the strut rear suspension from a Lancia Mid engine Montecarlo for reference
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 27th February 2017, 06:41
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default

Much the same design as the Montecarlo is the Fiat X1/9. It uses the same uprights, a very wide lower wishbone and a type of adjustable tie rod to give lateral location. In the X1/9 the top of the strut is 790mm high.




Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 27th February 2017, 14:15
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi

The X19 uprights you show look very similar to the ones I had on a fiat 128 coupe years ago. The 128 coupe was front wheel drive so these arms were bolted to the steering rack. As they were transferred to the back in the mid-engine X19 a fixed stay must have been incorporated to stop rear wheel steer.
The deon uses a lancia beta front upright at the rear with a fixed location built into the rear top wishbone. Metal brackets then bolt to the strut mounting holes to attach the top suspension.
The deon front ones were taken from a fiat 124,and later a lada riva. And unbelievably still available new from lada complete with hub/bearings and brake discs!!
ian
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 27th February 2017, 23:16
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi,
yes the Deon (and before that the DGT) were, if magazine articles are correct, fine tuned by a company called Geoscan.
It would be incredibly helpful if someone could do a drawing or simply list all the mesurements of the complete Deon suspension system. From all accounts it is very good.
Of course tyre profiles and engine weights have moved on from the 80s but it is a good starting point.
here are a couple from the Locost site as an example of what I mean:





[IMG]https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=locost+suspension+drawing+-+mazda+mx+5&client=firefox-b&sa=X&biw=1440&bih=728&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ &ved=0ahUKEwiM0siDsrHSAhXCH5QKHWaVCHIQsAQIFw#tbm=i sch&q=locost+suspension+drawing+&*&imgdii=r4cVw4yx Y09UuM:&imgrc=KafhWiBCsdZYaM:[/IMG]

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 28th February 2017, 14:06
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi

This is a diagram of the deon front suspension. Unlike the locost wishbone where the ball joint screws in or out, the deon ones have the adjustment on both the inner arms where the wishbones bolts to the chassis rather than at the upright. The ball joints were bolted in securely. I guess this allows fine tuning of the upright angle? Both top and bottom wishbones have this arrangement.
The rear wishbones on earlier JHC cars also had this adjustment on both upper and lower wishbones ,but later deon cars had a fixed upper wishbone.
When I come to make my chassis I can draw a diagram and add sizes if anyone is interested.
You're right about the deon/jhc chassis being fine tuned by geoscan.It was said to have been tested at castle combe circuit.

ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Scan frs0012.jpg (92.0 KB, 27 views)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 28th February 2017, 15:39
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossnzwpi View Post
Hi,
yes the Deon (and before that the DGT) were, if magazine articles are correct, fine tuned by a company called Geoscan.
It would be incredibly helpful if someone could do a drawing or simply list all the mesurements of the complete Deon suspension system. From all accounts it is very good.
Of course tyre profiles and engine weights have moved on from the 80s but it is a good starting point.
here are a couple from the Locost site as an example of what I mean:





[IMG]https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=locost+suspension+drawing+-+mazda+mx+5&client=firefox-b&sa=X&biw=1440&bih=728&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ &ved=0ahUKEwiM0siDsrHSAhXCH5QKHWaVCHIQsAQIFw#tbm=i sch&q=locost+suspension+drawing+&*&imgdii=r4cVw4yx Y09UuM:&imgrc=KafhWiBCsdZYaM:[/IMG]

What site are you on for this-might be worth a read-ian
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 28th February 2017, 18:08
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default

These images were just grabbed randomly via google image search to show how other people had sketched dimensions. However the Locost community in general have lots of discussion about suspension design as they tend to customise their DIY, built from scratch designs using a variety of donor parts.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/ (although often the donor parts are USA specific, except for Mazda MX5)

http://sevenesque.com/plans/ (McSorley's site has lots of plans and DIY suspension fine tuning without all the maths advice)

http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk (lots of engine fitment, radically different ideas)

cheers
Ross
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 7th March 2017, 10:38
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi

how about this? some guy on FB is designing a chassis for a ferrari on cad/system works. looks similar to the dino one.

ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 001.jpg (87.9 KB, 27 views)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 9th March 2017, 20:04
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default

An interesting start to a design. Do you have a link to it on FB? At present it just looks like a version of the 1960s Dino design - which was essentially a platform design without much triangulation. It relied on some heavy big tubes and a few basic upright frames. The sports racing Dino 206sp chassis - multi tubular, small tube, augmented by riveted aluminium sheet is a far more advanced design than the road-going Dino 246. This is a replica one I saw being built in Invercargill NZ in the '90s.Its a bit like comparing a Dutton to an Ultima.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10th March 2017, 10:12
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 309
thecarbuilder246 is on a distinguished road
Default chassis

Hi there

The chassis design he posted was a project for a ferrari f40 he was constructing. The fb page is just titled 'kit cars' and the post show various stages from chassis design and sizes up to a complete car. There are some nice photo's. Check out 'nitescu lon laurentiu'

ian
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11th March 2017, 00:05
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
rossnzwpi is on a distinguished road
Default Ferrari F40 replica

Some more F40 links for fun.

here's an F40 replica with twin turbo Toyota V8 - 700BHP made in my home town:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmZR9ynRPio

the last couple of pages of the factory F40 manual have chassis drawings and dimensions (and suspension views too):
http://axisofoversteer.com/blog/docu...0_USA_1992.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 11:40.

copyright madabout-kitcars.com 2000-2019
terms and conditions | privacy policy