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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Sammio Builds and discussions

Sammio Builds and discussions Sammio bodied car builds and specials

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  #1361  
Old 3rd November 2014, 16:54
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DVLA - Possible Breakthrough: (touch wood)
Spoke to a very helpful person at the DVLA today regarding a V5C change for a Sammio Spyder on SORN to see where I am going wrong.
It looks like the requirement to have the vehicle taxed is linked to applications treated as a new/first registration.
( I assume this covers Q plates, or age related plates based on a major component in a build. )
However, as I have a "full house" of DVLA vehicle identity points I believe it should not be classed as a new/first registration.
The only thing I have changed is the body shell and this has no identity value as far as the DVLA are concerned.
So I have just put another letter to the DVLA in the post which I really hope will be the one to get this sorted out.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Just Checking In:
Family stuff and the wet weather have prevented me making any further progress with my build.

So instead here are a couple of photos from our trip to see friends in Oxford at the weekend for some fireworks.





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Cheers, Paul.
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  #1362  
Old 3rd November 2014, 19:14
cbjroms cbjroms is offline
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Fingers crossed for you with the DVLA. You deserve a break.

Chris
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  #1363  
Old 4th November 2014, 15:41
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Chris - Cheers.
If I do manage to get this sorted out, I am going to ask the DVLA to provide a specific contact for other builders.
As clearly it would save a lot of time and effort all round if we were all on the save wavelength.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Boot Handle:
This was yet another one of those "simple" jobs that took absolutely ages to get done.

The boot handle came with a cardboard gasket that I could use to mark up the boot lid.



I have settled on a position for the handle that is roughly in the middle of the two humps.



Obviously this is not the same as being in the middle of the boot panel, but who cares?

The handle may also not line up with the petrol cap when I finally get around to fitting that.

But then again, the petrol cap will not be in the middle of the two humps either.

I had to use a hand file to get the hole in the middle the correct size, as it is bigger than my drill bits.



Which allows the handle to slot into place like so.



The other thing that I had to bear in mind when choosing where to fit the handle, was where the rope had been fixed on the underside.



Again, the rope "cross" is not in the middle of the boot lid either.

I had an off cut of sheet metal that I wanted to use to re-enforce the handle fittings.



So I made a cardboard template before cutting out a shape that would fit nicely.





I then gave the metal a bit of a hammering so that it was a better match for the contours of the boot lid.

Then I could give both sides a coat of etch primer.



Later on I had my first attempt at using the bonding paste I bought to fix the body shell into place.



I used a couple of bolts and some penny washers to tighten the plate into position & squeeze the paste.
( The key thing for me was to ensure there was no air gap between the lid and the backing plate. )



Then I wiped away any excess from the middle hole and smeared the paste around the outside edge of the metal.



I will adopt a belt and braces approach and add some fibreglass matting along the edges too.

But as the sun started to set, the temperature really started to drop and it was pretty chilly out.

So I called it a day and just cut out some strips of matting before packing everything away.



Hopefully the bonding paste will be set hard by tomorrow.

Until then, take care, Paul.

PS
It looks like my luck with the weather may be improving, as it is chucking it down with rain as I post this.
( Which would have ruined the fibreglass if I'd taken a chance on doing that job earlier on. )
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  #1364  
Old 4th November 2014, 16:27
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Paul this bonding paste is it specific to auto industry or for fibreglass?
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  #1365  
Old 4th November 2014, 19:28
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Swifty Ė It was a general purpose bonding paste from Glasplies, something like this.

http://www.glasplies.co.uk/2-5-Kg-Bo...white2.5kg.htm

Iím sure at the time I checked that it was suitable for fibreglass and metal.

Iíll take a photo of the tin tomorrow if it helps.

Cheers, Paul.
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  #1366  
Old 5th November 2014, 13:33
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I'd not seen that brand of bonding paste you're using before? Is that the one that Towed used?
Given that they're a specialist company, that web site is amazingly light on details! But it looks the proper job

Here is the one that i am using. http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/Gravicol_2039.html
I also used that on my Spyder and it sets like rock, but takes a while to fully set.
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  #1367  
Old 5th November 2014, 18:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davecymru View Post
I'd not seen that brand of bonding paste you're using before? Is that the one that Towed used?
Given that they're a specialist company, that web site is amazingly light on details! But it looks the proper job

Here is the one that i am using. http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/Gravicol_2039.html
I also used that on my Spyder and it sets like rock, but takes a while to fully set.
Yep, I used Glasplies bonding paste. Excellent stuff so long as you add peroxide to it. As you say, their web site is a little thin on specifics and I assumed it air dried, so first tried using it without the catalyst. Unsurprisingly it didn't work.
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  #1368  
Old 5th November 2014, 18:31
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This web site http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...2039tc.aspxhas a good description along with the safety and technical data for gravicol paste but this product http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...-6470-w-2.aspx mentions its good for bonding both fibreglass and metal.

I'll email the company to see which bonding paste they recommend for bonding fibreglass to metal.

Last edited by swifty; 5th November 2014 at 18:33..
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  #1369  
Old 6th November 2014, 09:31
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Dave, Mister Towed & Swifty - Excuse the delay in replying (see below).

Yes, I bought the same blue stuff as Mr T used.
( And learned from his lesson about using the catalyst. )



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Wednesday:
I went to a funeral in Swindon yesterday and managed to squeeze in a visit to Micky1Mo on the way home.
It was great to have a chat with him and have a look around the various cars in his workshop.
I think the Sammio brand is in good hands and I am sure when the kits are re-launched they will simply work.

Excuse the terrible photo, as I didn't notice how blurred it was until I loaded the photo up this morning.



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Thursday - Early Morning:
I removed the bolts holding the metal plate in position and the bonding paste has set hard.

Then I gave the area a very light going over with my angle grinder.



I put the heater on in the Summerhouse to gently warm up the fibreglass resin.

Then I applied the matting that I'd cut out the other day.



Obviously there is a distinct air of over-engineering about this set up, but it wouldn't be the first time on this build.

I've now left that to go off and come back inside to both get warm & do some other domestic chores.

Hopefully I will be able to add a final layer of filler to the inside of the lid later on today.

Until then, take care, Paul.
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  #1370  
Old 6th November 2014, 13:31
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Oh Happy Days...
With the fibreglass matting set, I added a layer of fibreglass filler along the remaining sections of the lid edge.
( With just enough left over to roughly level out the bottom "triangle". )



When this is all set I will sand it down and put a skim of body filler over the top of the rest of the lid.

That should give me a smooth(ish) finish and avoid fibreglass splinters going into my hands.

As, like a moth to the flame, I just can't stop myself running my fingers along the surface.

But this simple bit of filler work is not the reason for this second update and my good mood, oh no.

Instead there is a big smile on my face as I type this next bit of build news.

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DVLA Update:
The DVLA have sent me two more forms following my last letter and phone call.
- I have to fill in a new SORN using my new Model name*.
- I also have to declare/sign that the conversion** work is complete.

Notes:
* I will reveal the name when it appears in black & white.
** I spoke to the DVLA earlier today to make sure we all agree on the text book definition of "conversion".

The process of changing from one form to another.

So at this stage I can honestly say my body shell has a new form compared to the Spitfire.
Which roughly ties in with the timings of old VOSA inspections, which were not of finished cars.

So all the relevant paperwork is now signed, sealed and in the post by recorded delivery.

Which means that all there is left for me to do is wait for my new V5C to arrive.

This really is a HUGE weight off my mind and a good morale boost for my build.

Note:
I did ask what other builders should do and will update the relevant DVLA thread later on.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Until next time, take care, Paul.
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  #1371  
Old 6th November 2014, 13:36
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Good news Paul. Would be very useful to have some contact details for someone at DVLA who knows the score.
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  #1372  
Old 6th November 2014, 13:52
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Good luck Paul I hope you get it sorted this time
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  #1373  
Old 6th November 2014, 15:13
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Well done Paul, to score any kind of victory against such an adversary is commendable!

I really did not think you stood much chance, which makes the success even sweeter!
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  #1374  
Old 7th November 2014, 11:41
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Mr Towed, Blooka & Scottie - Thanks chaps.
I've started a new thread to explain what I should have done.
And I really must give full credit to the DVLA for helping me out of the hole I dug for myself.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Making A Bit Of A Mess:
Managed to crab a quick break in the weather and sanded down the filler on the boot lid.

I did both the top surface...



And the perimeter edge on the inside that the rain channel seal will press against.



Once again it was pretty cold outside, so I added some extra hardener to the body filler.

But this meant the filler was setting before I really got the chance to get a final smooth surface.

I also ended up using up the last of one tub of filler, before starting another tub of a different brand.

The net result is certainly not pretty.



The only good news is that I know my sanding block set will work wonders on this.

Unfortunately it is raining again here now, so I am not sure when I will get a chance to start cleaning up this mess.

Cheers, Paul.
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  #1375  
Old 7th November 2014, 14:59
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A Bit better:
Caught another short break in the weather to start sanding down the body filler.



It is a lot better in real life than it looks in the photo.

Whilst the inside of the lid will be hidden when the car is on the road, I might follow Scottie's example and use it as a test best.

As this could be an idea place for me to practise my final bodywork preparation and learn how to hand paint a car.

That way, any mistakes I make would not be a real problem.

But for now, the clouds were returning, so I put the lid away and then tidied up the mess I had just made in the garden.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

DVLA Chassis Rules:
DaveCymru posted an interesting bit of information on the DVLA / V5C thread I started yesterday.

Q) We know that cutting or shortening a chassis is classed as modification but is this relative to the vehicle wheelbase i.e. the chassis must remain uncut between the 2 axles but anything forward of front or aft of rear suspension mounts can be removed?

A) Chassis includes the full original length of the longitudinal members including to the front of the front axle and to the rear of the rear axle.


Dave was happy to see that the Herald outriggers could be removed at the start of a build and this would still be OK with the DVLA.

But this answer has made me have another look at my highlighted diagram from Rimmer Bros.



Does that mean that the chassis is only counted as the two main "beams" that reach the front cross member?

In other words, could the "bracing cross member" in the diagram be considered as an addition to the chassis?

Similarly, would the sections of the "front cross member" that extend beyond the chassis rails be considered additions?

I still haven't worked out how I am going to get my bonnet to hinge properly, but knowing what I must keep and what I can cut would be a big help.

Cheers, Paul.
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  #1376  
Old 8th November 2014, 13:32
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Boot Lid - Locking Pins:
My initial plan was to continue sanding down the inside edge of the boot lid.

Then it dawned on me, that I should really drill the holes for the locking pins before I go any further.

But first I did a little more work on sanding / setting the gaps around the edges of the boot lid.

These are by no means perfect, but they are slowly getting there.

Note: The use of natural spacers.



A strip of masking tape ensured I had equal spacing relative to the handle at the top.



There is also a hint of an abstract / modern art face in that photo too.

The bolts for the pins will go just the other side of the rain channel, somewhere around here.



Initially, I was planning a similar location for the bottom pins relative to the rain channel.



But when I tried to mark up the bottom pins, the tip of the hump fouls the driver's side washer.
( Remember the passenger side hump is inset slightly. )

So I ended up with the bottom pins like so.



Which means the rain needs to be re-worked to accommodate the bolt somewhere around here.



Note:
The dodgy fibreglass join in the rain channel you can see above my hand is on the list of things to repair/re-do.

Unfortunately, by now the dark clouds had gathered.



So I put the covers back on the car and took the boot lid into the porch.

Looking at the inside edge, the bottom pins will have no issues.



But for the top pins to fit, I will need to cut away part of the rope re-enforcement to get a flat surface.



There was just enough time to put the boot lid into the garden shed before the rain started.

So the next job will be to cut out the four holes.



Given the odd shape of the holes, I think this may be another very time consuming job.

Having said that, I really like the way the boot lid is coming along and it will be worth the effort in the end.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

PS
Any feedback on the chassis questions I had at the bottom of my last post would be very welcome.
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  #1377  
Old 8th November 2014, 14:45
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Hey Paul, what ever you do please do not ask the DVLA if the bonnet support brackets constitute part of the chassis, because if you do, you are giving them the ammo to shoot you down, and if they decide the answer is yes, we are all fcuked, and you won't be top of the pops in the popularity department!
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  #1378  
Old 8th November 2014, 15:09
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Scottie - Don't worry mate, the DVLA have already confirmed that the 'Bonnet Hinge Support' is a bracket and not part of the chassis.

If you remember, this was one of the first questions that I asked the DVLA many months ago.

Have a look at the 2014 DVLA / V5C thread I started:
- You can see the brackets in the rolling chassis photo.
- But the brackets are clearly removed in the 'new body shell on the old rolling chassis' photo.
- I also supplied photos of the repairs to the chassis caused by rust developing behind the brackets.

The DVLA also have the highlighted Rimmer Bros. diagram I sent them, so I have been completely open about removing the brackets.

The DVLA have confirmed that I am entitled to retain the original registration and therefore I must have an "original and unmodified chassis".

So you must believe me when I say that these brackets can be removed without a problem.

Which is exactly what Chris@Tribute said when I first noticed you had removed them on your build many moons ago.

Instead, my chassis questions are linked to Dave's extra information.

This is how DonnySoutherner has modified his Spitfire chassis.



Based on Dave's research I now believe that this is 100% legal under the DVLA rules.

All I want is a bit of consensus that others also interpretation the definition of a DVLA chassis in the same way.

Cheers, Paul.

PS
It looks like it might have stopped raining, so I'm off out to drill some holes, but I will be back later.
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  #1379  
Old 8th November 2014, 15:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie22 View Post
Hey Paul, what ever you do please do not ask the DVLA if the bonnet support brackets constitute part of the chassis, because if you do, you are giving them the ammo to shoot you down, and if they decide the answer is yes, we are all fcuked, and you won't be top of the pops in the popularity department!
Hi Paul, your boot lid looks as if it has always been there and not a modification. It really suits the car and the angle cut through the humps makes it in my opinion. This makes the storage beneath a really practical space. I am sure your design will be seen on other cars in the future.

If your V5C is now in the system and they are happy to issue it without inspection then best to say nothing. Once you receive it you are then free to do your alterations.
The way I see it is that once one has removed the old body and rested the new on, it would be prudent to send the photos and required paperwork for the change. If you subsequently receive the V5C then no problem and you are free to move on. However if they want to inspect it then that is no problem because it is still unmolested in the chassis department.
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  #1380  
Old 8th November 2014, 17:10
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Froggyman - I'm glad you like my boot lid design, as I am really pleased with it myself.
Although, if I was doing it again, I think I would drill the holes for the locking pins first.
Then I could have built the rain channel and bolt supporting brackets around them from the start.

As for my chassis, I have no intention of touching it before the new V5C arrives.
I'm really just trying to plan ahead for the time when I have to sort out my bonnet hinges.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Holes:
This was the shape I needed to cut out.



I used my stepped drill bit to get the bulk of the area removed.



Then a selection of hand files finished the job.



At this point I discovered a slight problem...

The thickness of the lid wouldn't let the locking mechanism fit through the hole.



A quick skim over the inside with my angle grinder and the problem went away.





Whilst it is possible to fit these locks without the big washer, I think it would put too much pressure on the fibreglass.

So I will keep the big shiny washers on the top (they just have a protective film on them at the moment).



I just need to do a bit more work to ensure the washer on the inside of the boot lid sits flush.



But for now, that was one down and three to go.

Thankfully I managed to get all the other holes done before the rain came down again.

Unfortunately, the photos needed a flash which makes it look darker outside than it actually was.



Note:
I left the underside of the washer facing up for the photo as this side is quite shiny too.

You can also see the rain drops on the lid and by now I had packed most stuff away as the rain boxed me in.



At least I managed to take another step in the right direction today.

Until next time, take care, Paul.
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