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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds

Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds For Vintage and Classic era kit cars. Post your build reports, problems and progress here

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  #1  
Old 1st April 2018, 19:41
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Default Mister Towed's Bugless Outlaw Speedster build

So, now we have lighter evenings and some sunny days on the way, it's time for me to start my next build thread.

I've been meaning to do this for a while, but life just tends to get in the way of the best laid plans and all that.

To bring anyone who isn't aware of my previous build up to speed, between June 2011 and July 2013 I built a Sammio Spyder that turned out to be quite the attention grabber -



The Sammio was great fun to build and own and I used it as much as possible, with three trips to Goodwood Revival plus lots of exhilarating blasts around the mountain roads of Norfolk*.

After four years of ownership and tinkering to get my Spyder just the way I wanted it, I waved it a sad farewell in September 2017 -





The reason for the Sammio's departure was to make space for one of my dream cars, a Porsche 356 Speedster. I've wanted one of those for about 35 years now, so, as I'll never be able to afford a real one, it's about time I got my act together and built one.

But, having run a 'restocal' bug back in '89, I don't really want a wheezy bug engine hanging out back, the unpleasant sensation of having no control over the front wheels at anything over 50 on the motorway or the complete ballache of needing IVA after building a car with a chopped up a Beetle chassis underneath.

So, a plan formed in my head that may or may not be possible, but I'm going to give it a go anyway.

To cut a long story short, this build is going to be a low-drag Outlaw Speedster body sitting atop a Triumph Spitfire chassis and running a water cooled twin-cam up front.

No, really it is.

I've made a start already, having found a pretty much rust free '67 Spit chassis with all its running gear but minus the body, which had dissolved in the rain after a previous owner stripped it for a rebuild that never happened -


I've treated it to all new bearings, brakes & bushes, given it a good clean and a couple of coats of a glass reinforced anti-corrosion paint that they use on North Sea oil rig legs -





AS you can see, it's fitted with 15" MGF 'Square Peg' alloys which have the same PCD as the Spitfire, but I've uprated the hub studs to Freelander ones all round to make sure they stay attached. The back ones bolted straight on but I needed 5mm spacers on the front as the nuts reached the end of their travel before securing the front wheels properly without them.

The wheels are currently wrapped in perished MGF rubber, but I have five Hankook 175/65 HR 15's waiting to be fitted which will look more period and not make the steering too heavy.

Oh, and once the car's finished I'm toying with the idea of getting some adaptors made so I can fit wide-five 356 style wheels, but I might just keep the MGF ones as I rather like the Outlaw look.

So, the next step is to take this -



...out of this -



...bolt it up to this -



...then drop this on it -



...followed by a bit of trim and some paint to make it look something like this-



There are a few hurdles to overcome on the way - the Spitfire wheelbase is only 9mm different to the 356, but I've managed to buy a Banham body by mistake which is 180mm longer than either, but I do own an angle grinder.

Once the Puma engine is mated to the RX8 'box and offered up to the chassis I'll be able to check to see if it's going to fit under the 356 bonnet. If it doesn't, this is going to be a pretty short build thread...

*April Fool, Norfolk's as flat as a pancake

Last edited by Mister Towed; 1st April 2018 at 19:53..
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  #2  
Old 1st April 2018, 19:46
Colin HD Colin HD is offline
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Love it!!
Big fan of what most consider 'wrong' body/chassis combinations!!
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  #3  
Old 1st April 2018, 20:02
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[Gospel Choir]

"Oh happy day (oh happy day)"

[/Gospel Choir]

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  #4  
Old 2nd April 2018, 16:08
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Great to see a another new build thread in the 'Vintage' section.

There's not much on that chassis to fix the body to? Will you be making a steel support frame.

Looking forward to lots of updates.....
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  #5  
Old 2nd April 2018, 21:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Great to see a another new build thread in the 'Vintage' section.

There's not much on that chassis to fix the body to? Will you be making a steel support frame.

Looking forward to lots of updates.....
Yep, support frame similar to Sammio Spyder and will probably be using new Spitfire steel floors and maybe a fibreglass bulkhead (need to speak to Tribute 'bout that...). Won't be too different to a Chesil or similar in the body to frame department.
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Old 2nd April 2018, 23:49
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Cool!!
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  #7  
Old 3rd April 2018, 12:58
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Mr T – I’m sure your Sammio building experience will stand you in good stead for this build.

Especially, if there is going to be some serious ‘cutting and shutting’ work required.

It certainly looks like you’ve already done a nice job on the Spitfire chassis.

A couple of quick questions from me:
- Does the Puma engine come with a lot of alarm sensors, and the like, that you need to keep / bypass?
- Would you consider a bonnet bulge to make things fit, or must the original 356 lines remain ‘pure’?

I like the idea of using Spitfire floor pans within your internal frame structure.
( As the butchered Spitfire bulkhead in my ‘Frankenstein’ build gives the front foot wells a factory look. )

Are you going to re-use any other parts from the Puma, such as the pedals and master cylinders?

If so, it might be worth recycling whole sections of the Puma bulkhead within your framework.

Good luck, Paul.

PS
I was all set to ask what the “Bugless” part of your title referred to.
As initially I thought it was a reference to an obscure Outlaw builder, someone like Emory or Singer.
Thankfully, I finally worked out it was a reference to the absence of Beetle parts.
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  #8  
Old 3rd April 2018, 17:43
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Hi Paul, I'm going to be using the engine, fuel tank, side impact bars, door locks and wiring loom from the Puma, everything else will be scrap. The pedals, steering column etc. will be good old Triumph parts for simplicity.

The Puma doesn't seem to have an alarm, but I suspect it may have an immobiliser of some sort. My plan is to use the entire loom with all its black boxes intact and hope it starts.

I've already disconnected all the wiring to the doors as I figured if anything was going to be linked to an alarm or immobiliser it'd be those. With the surprisingly complex looms disconnected from the doors it still starts and runs and doesn't drain the battery after a few days (so long as you switch off the interior light), so it looks promising.

If I can't make the Ford engine work then plan B is to fit a Spitfire engine and box instead. The Puma came with a month's MOT and cost me £110, so it won't have been a particularly expensive mistake.

There won't be a scoop on the bonnet, maybe a blister if necessary, but if I can't make the engine fit under the hood I'll source another body to go on the now very nice Spitfire chassis and either start looking for a beetle donor or sell the Speedster project on.

Should be getting the engine out of the Puma tomorrow if all goes to plan.
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Old 15th April 2018, 17:14
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Okay, take the engine out of a Puma and put it in a Spitfire chassis you say. Half a day's work maybe?

No. How about two days just to remove the fuel tank due to the very rusty state of everything on this seventeen year old Ford. Everything's seized, 'quick release' fasteners just won't and everything breaks when you try to force it.

And then you find that the tank is looking too rusty to use anyway as some of the metal feels awfully thin to me.

But, new Puma tanks are cheap so I started to disconnect all the ancillaries and connectors from the engine. Lots and lots of connectors. Which is when I realised that this modern engine is just too complicated for what I want. Even if I could get it installed and running, if it ever broke down I wouldn't have a clue how to fix it.

So, the Puma's off to the scrappy and the gearbox and adaptor are for sale and Plan B it is.

£200 takes it all away.





https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142758865...84.m1558.l2649
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Old 16th April 2018, 05:41
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The Puma will have a Ford PATS immobiliser. Make sure you have the master key -you can’t reprogramme other keys without it. You will need the detector loop that goes around the ignition barrel that registers the key. It is also a good idea, at least temporarily, to keep the clock as there is a flashing LED built in that tells you the PATS status!
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Old 16th April 2018, 06:21
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Look good Mr T
I had a mgf based Blaze that had Mike Satur wheel adapters
http://www.mikesatur.co.uk/index.php...8&search=wheel
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Old 16th April 2018, 08:24
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How about the Alfa Boxer 1.8 twin carb or i? Understandable, pokey, relatively cheap.

I mean the older 1.6/1.7 of course.

Last edited by Barber; 16th April 2018 at 09:41..
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Old 16th April 2018, 12:05
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Mr T – Apologies if this is too late, but how likely is the ‘modern’ Puma engine to break down?

Back in the 80s this was a regular debate in my motorcycle club comparing British & Japanese bikes.
- The British bike owners would argue that they could rebuild their engine at the side of the road.
- The Japanese bike owners would argue that they were less likely to break down in the first place.

Either way…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Towed View Post
The Puma came with a month's MOT and cost me £110.
As you said at the start, this wasn’t a huge investment in cash terms.

Good luck, Paul.
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Old 17th April 2018, 06:33
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Hi guys, the Puma's being collected for scrap on Friday and they're paying me £65.00 so it cost me £45.00 to give it a go.

The whole PATS thing is what's put me off using the Ford motor, which is a shame as it ran sweet as a nut and revved like a bike engine. Given enough time I probably could get it fitted and working, but if it ever did break down that would be a real problem as I'd have to pay to have a diagnostic check and it may never run again. Instruments were also going to be a bit of a headache due to various engine complexities.

As my old Triumph six-pot only broke down once in four years, and that was due to the failure of the brand new MSD electronic multi-spark ignition module, I'm happy that I can find/build a motor capable of reliable running and definitely fix it myself if it does fail.

Alfa boxer engine is a gem and I always planned to use one if I built a bug based Porsche replica. They're getting quite rare now, though, and as my car is front engined Spitfire based I need an inline four to fit the chassis.

Slowly gathering the parts from ebay to get it running with a Spitfire 1300 motor. Won't be as powerful as the Puma, but it'll still sound great and propel my little Speedster at an age appropriate pace.
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Old 17th April 2018, 09:06
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There are many benefits to keeping it simple...as I know all too well having decided to veer from the path of common sense early in my build.
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Old 17th April 2018, 09:25
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How about an old Ford 4 cylinder, something they used in the Cortina? You could get a 2.0l.
I had a 1600 cross flow in a boat and it was a smallish motor but very simple and reliable. I would imagine it would have a bit more poke than a Spitfire engine.
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Old 17th April 2018, 09:31
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I was scared of the Fiesta Zetec SE engine in my build but actually, if you work through the electric spaghetti logically it all makes sense. There are various diagrams on the inter web to help, especially madinventions.com. The diagnostic side is pretty simple - it is cheaper to buy a Bluetooth OBD plug in and a smartphone app than have a diagnostic check at a garage! I managed to sort mine out (humble pilot) so someone with your godlike ability should be able to sort it easily!
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  #18  
Old 17th April 2018, 16:23
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Hmm, smartphone app you say? T'is Witchcraft of which you speak!

Spitfire motors aren't that powerful out of the box, but the 1300 and 1500 are both good for 110bhp with tuning, which is enough in a very light road car. I'll probably start with a standard engine and modestly modify either it or a spare to give around 85bhp without breaking the bank. Big power would just break the diff anyway.
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Old 17th April 2018, 16:57
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Get a bigger diff
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  #20  
Old 21st April 2018, 05:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Towed View Post
…Slowly gathering the parts from ebay to get it running with a Spitfire 1300 motor. Won't be as powerful as the Puma, but it'll still sound great and propel my little Speedster at an age appropriate pace...
Sounds like a great ‘Plan B’.

I’ve only got a 1500 engine in mine and I must confess that twisty roads in 3rd gear are where I’m happiest.
( Especially with the exhaust popping and banging if I lift off the throttle. )

Good luck, Paul.
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