Recommended Book for First Timers?

[DanielGT]

I am a mechanically minded soul with a hankering to build my own kit car. I am also, however, completely new to the game and a little daunted as to where I should start.

If my experience of enthusiasts in any field is good to go by, I imagine most builders would be only too happy to share their experiences, advice, tips and tricks so I plan to visit a show or gathering ASAP and chew the fat with as many as I can find. In the meantime I need to do some basic research to allow me to judge what is a reasonable goal to aim at and the best way forward for me.

Trawling this forum is obviously a good start, but I suspect a bit too specific for me at this stage (an ongoing discussion on brake flare tools or the best lamps to use is somewhat down the line). What I really need is a book... The best, most comprehensive (and probably very general) book that's out there. I've had a look on Amazon but would appreciate specialist advice.

If it helps, I want to put together a 7 type roadster. Absolutely no hurry, quite content to potter and get it right, for an overall budget of <5K...

Many thanks

[chrislandy]

Hi Daniel,
Welcome to the forum! You've already mentioned what I would advise, go to a few shows and have a chat.

IMO, the £20odd you'd spend on a book would be better off being put towards a decent socket set. I've built/rebuilt loads of kitcars/land rovers and the only book I've ever bought is a haynes manual for the donor or landy that I'm working on.

If you buy a kit that is already registered but needs a bit of tlc then if you use a camera liberally when you break it down you have a record of where that little bracket goes when you're sitting there puzzled 3 years later

Contrary to popular belief, cars are not that hard to build so my advice is bite the bullet and get going

Chris

[DanielGT]

Thanks for your advice, Chris, I suspect that I will almost certainly end up doing something similar to what you describe. I still think a book (a "Diary of my First Build" by JR Hartley type thing) could help me focus my somewhat woolly thoughts into a proper plan?

I had imagined starting with a pile of welded fab, a steely determination to get on my local breakers/ welders christmas card list and not much else. Between that stage and the finished article... I need to fill in the gap.

I mean, a car is only widgets and bits bolted together, right? How hard can that be? If I keep that in my mind I suspect I'll end up mad, and skint, and fallen down bump on my proverbial... Still, probably the best way to learn!

[Nike55]

Welcome,

If you are aiming for a 7-esque type car then you could start with Ron Champions book - 'Build a kit car for less than £250' (via Haynes) not for the reason that you could actually build a kit car for £250 but it does give you an idea of the layout and what needs to be done in a logical order.

There are any number of people publishing their own build diaries, from purchasing their first donor car and kit (whether Robin Hood/Locost etc) then going down the build route. Have a trawl - all human life is there and lots of ideas and tips.

(Its very interesting to see that some people are going down the 'let's impress 'Ron Dennis route' while others are throwing things together with more enthusiasm than skill..)

Not all builds are infallible and having a look at someone's build site of your chosen model may help when the exhaust is trying to go through a chassis frame, someone has probably been there before you and solved it.

[chrislandy]

Ooh, to add to what I said earlier, I was looking through my library (ok bookshelf!) and I do have a couple of books which I have found useful for scratch built...

"Racing and sports car chassis design" by Costin & Phipps - good info on chassis triangulation, layout etc
"Race and Rally car source book" by Staniforth - again good info for parts layout, cockpit layout etc

Not quite kit cars but good reference material

The other, I didn't buy it but loaned it from the library,

"How to built your own Supercar" by Thompson, an interesting read on a guys rebuild with some practical tips.

Chris.

[peterux]

I've got 28 Kitcar and 28 Complete Kit Car magazines from 2009/2010/2011.
Numerous good technical articles.
They are free if you want to collect them!
I'm near the M40/M25 junction so it'll just cost you just your fuel.

PM me for further details.
...peter

[Nike55]

If you ever see a copy of Tony Bingellis' book on sport plane building going cheap (or via the Light Aircraft Association Website - if you're feeling flush) have a look...

[DanielGT]

I think I've come to a decision. Book AND sockets... Overbudget already. start as I mean to go on!!

Build your Own Sportscar for £250 etc. etc. (ISBN: 978-1859606360)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Your-S...ref=pd_sim_b_9

has good reviews overall, however the "latest" edition is from 2000. I suspect it may have been superceded by

Build your Own Sportscar on a Budget etc. etc. (ISBN: 978-1844253913)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Your-O...ref=pd_sim_b_1

Same publisher, different credited author, though more recent (2007).

These books obviously have a keen following, I've noted that at least one manufacturer sells a locost spaceframe chassis specifically designed around the specs in the book(s) for <£1K brand new.

I've also found that typing "Robin Hood build diary" into Google has more hits than I'll ever be able to read and some very surprising revelations about Errol Flynn and bricklayers.

[rockstarreplicas]

Welcome to the forum Daniel!
What they said!

[jps]

Hi Dan - i've just joined the forum and fairly quickly saw your thread. I'm pretty much in the same position as you - want to build a 7, budgeting around £5k and a 'how hard can it be' attitude!!

I've bought the 'Haynes Sportcars on a budget' book too - and it has definitely been a decent background read - considering I am enthusiastic but novice in terms of car maintainence and have zero fabrication experience...

I get the impression the difference between the '...for £250' book at the 'Sportcar on a budget' book are they use different suspension configurations - hence the designs in them are not quite the same...

Like you I also started to get the impression that quite a few of the kit manufacturers are basically offering kits which are very similar what you'd end up making if you followed the Haynes books to build something from scratch (unless anyone more knowledgeable corrects me on this!!!)

[Nike55]

The second edition of 'Build your own Sportscar (for as little as £250 and Race It)' covered racing modifications as per 'Locust' racing under the auspices of the 750 Motor Club. T

The new fangled 'SVA' test is also mentioned in detail - although that aspect is now superseded by the IVA. The original donor was based on a Ford escort Mk II (with front hub assembly from Cortina Mk III, IV or 5, a steering rack from an Escort with Sierra column parts etc.)

While much else was built from scratch (front wishbones etc) any number of engineering firms sprung up (and disappeared in the interim) to fill the niche of parts providers for chassis, wishbones, alloy tanks, f/glass wings, nose, lighting kits etc - as you are probably aware.

'Build your Own Sportscar on a Budget' by Chris Gibbs (Haynes) uses a more modern Sierra donor (what's one of those then?) but again with various parts made yourself i.e. wishbones (or supplied via an outsource company) and again the old SVA is mentioned. Chris Gibbs book is probably worth a look for the engineering drawings in the appendix if you are building from scratch.

[DanielGT]

We must be careful of our 'Locost' (per Roger Champions original "£250" book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locost) and 'Locust' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust_(car)) variants. Whilst they have similarities, they are different... But hell, that seems to be the definition of most kit car types!! The latest book (Gibbs) refers to the Haynes Roadster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haynes_Roadster), and is the one that seems to have the most support in the supply chain (err... eBay) for fabricated bits, from chassis outwards.

I've had a good look at Gibbs, and it seems to be a very comprehensive list of components and dimensions, an excellent exercise in flatpack, a rightly limited share of his no doubt invaluable experience, a fatherly push along the right road (with what I imagine useful resource lists supplied), a kindly wave and (do I detect) a well meaning "you just wait pal" snigger?! I'll certainly be following it, whether I decide to weld it up or buy the bits.

I was hoping to find a little more in-depth build tips and good luck/ horror stories that I myself could learn from and exploit/ avoid... On reflection, that ain't going to be in a book. The kit car community is a welcome and supportive one, all too eager to share so the forum, and many proudly (internet) published build diaries has got to be the best place for further practical insight and implementation guidelines.

Oooh... I know I haven't even waved a MIG torch in anger yet so probably shouldn't say this but I think I agree with Nike55... Sierra?! purrlleeaasee. Surely Mazda or BMW as a start point in 2012?

[Nike55]

Originally Posted by DanielGT

Sierra?! purrlleeaasee. Surely Mazda or BMW as a start point in 2012?

Looking at the Great British Sportscars and MK Sportcars sites, their basic kit of parts seem to make it cheaper to buy a chassis already welded rather than source the steel and welding equipment and building it yourself, although there's nothing wrong with going down that route (with a college or evening class) and learning a new skill or two. I might be doing you a disservice if you are already a trained and confident welder and have the engineering expertise.

There are newer alternatives to the Sierra and this is something the kit car industry has been good at since the 50's: the 'Adapt and Evolve' ethos, that's how it all started!

Both the above companies have had experience with various donor types and will know what can and can't be done with their chassis. GKD Sportscars' 'Legend' uses BMW running gear and has similar starter pack prices as those above..

Sorry if the above seems patronising - just a few thoughts.

ps (Other kit car companies are available.)

[DanielGT]

I would love to build my own sevenesque from a pile of steel, a book, second-hand kit and a divorce lawyer on hand but I expect I'll have to get realistic at some point! All part of the learning process, and I'm really quite excited at the prospect... ask me again in 6 months, and thanks for the pointers.

I will say, unless persuaded otherwise (and probably not for ongoing discussion on this particular thread), I've firmly decided from the off that I won't be basing it on a Sierra... I'm sorry, I just don't get it... at all...

30 secs on autotrader this morning for a potential donor (Nationwide search, <£1k, manual):

BMW 3/5 Series - 250+
Mazda MX5 - 22
Sierra - err... 1

[jps]

Originally Posted by Nike55

Sorry if the above seems patronising - just a few thoughts.

Personally - more than helpful!

On the Sierra thing - the idea of taking a mundane 'family' car and turning it into a sports car really appeals to me! Taking apart an MX-5 to make a sports car seems a bit counter-intuitive, especially considering Mazda designed it to emulate a Lotus in the first place!

[Nike55]

Kind of agree with the Sierra comment, (although the Sierra XR 4X4 V6 installed into a Dax Rush chassis was a bit quick) but the Sierra was just one in a very long line of cars (Austin Seven / Ten /Standard / Triumph/ VW /etc ) that were ripe for conversion, quite often by an average working Joe, on a limited budget, who used what was freely available and cheap and turned a mediocre car into something quite different.

In the early days it was a matter of simply re-bodying a chassis based vehicle with an alloy or later fibre glass body and perhaps tweaking the engine with twin carbs/hot cam, but more recently by building or buying a chassis and bolting on the donor components after refurbishment.

Someone just needs to update the 'Build your Own Car for £xxx' book.

You are going down a well trodden route so no worries. Just bear in mind that £1k will probably get you a rusty heap of junk (with an additional hidden horror or two that the seller will fail to mention) and you will need to factor in refurbishment costs for brakes/steering/suspension/electronics/engine etc.,

The IVA is quite stringent and grabbing a manual is a good start point and will save a lot of money/anxiety correcting later problems if going down the self build route of Seven-esque and BMW.

There are alternatives to IVA... if you find a kit you like which is simply a re-body on an existing vehicle with no change to the chassis (like the Sammio Spyder / Cordite range) then IVA is not required.

You could find an older 'Seven type' that simply needed restoring and strip it and update it to suit....

Have fun and good luck....