Thinking of a G46 - Tell me why not to do this...

[WorldClassAccident]

I have hankered after a pretty little sports car ever since I killed my Integra Type-R. I haven't found anything modern that I can afford that I like the look of. I really would like a Dino/RSK/D type but they really are silly money and the replicas just don't do it for me.

I ended up deciding to make my own based on a Locost chassis, BMW 3 series donor and styled like BRM GP but with seating for two.The main motivation for the choice of body style was the open wheels mean I didn't have to do complex curves on the bonnet.



I finally decide to go for it and am browsing the web to work out how I do make the body work and find the bl00dy G46 which is close enough to what I wanted in the first place! the trouble is that i don't want a car based on a 40 year old donor with all the associated hassle.

The Grand Plan
Get a custom built chassis to take a BMW 328 running gear and a Sammio G46 bodyshell.
Strip the BMW bits, bolt them to the chassis, glue the body on top and drive away into the sunset.

Can anyone see any flaws in my plan?

i did think about using an MX-5 donor but the front and rear frames are a lot wider than the G46 body and not as easy to narrow as the BMW bits

[garyh]

I know what you're saying, but you can service it. If you use modern mechanicals on a 50's inspired body you will have none of the character associated with using an older car. It could be anything...

[redratbike]

if you can afford it go for it ..the whole thing with the sammio concept is it leaves a lot to the individual..so you can turn these into anything you want from the basic bodyshell/kit...the only limit is your budget and imagination

most people are working to a budget as the sammio is an affordable dream that until now may have been out of reach for many.

by the looks of it having the car on the road is more important to people than a gleaming show winner and i think Gary at Sammio has hit the nail on the head with this concept, the guys that have these cars can update/upgrade as and when required ,if at all

the spyder and g46 are great also the 550 kit he does would work with suburu turbo lump ...maybe an updated front suspension without big budget and that would be interesting and handle reasonbly well as the engine and box are swapped to make it midengined..or go for an audi engine and transaxle ,etc etc ..

theses kits are what you make them ,Gary has given people their dream without the sva worries and as soon as i have a garage i'll be placing an order.


so go for it and keep us updated with the progress

[jmc14]

I would build a space frame for Miata parts than put the G-46 skin over that. The Miata suspension is great. It doesn't use struts. I believe it's the proper width without modifiying. I would keep the drivetrain the stock length. The longer wheelbase of the G-46 when compared to the Miata means that the engine will have a rearward bias. The Miata suspension cradles include the upper and lower pick up points, steering rack mounts, diff mounts, sway bars. You would just need to fab engine mounts. The suspension cradles simply bolt in to the Miata, they will simply bolt into the new frame.

I am building this type of frame for the Sammio and then probably will do one for the G-46 as well. I have built similar style frames using new Corvette parts for my cars. The frames are light and stiff. I have built around 30 of them. You will end up with an incredible performance car.

Another advantage of using Miata is that the drivetrain/suspension is interchangeable from 1990-2004. The cost is low. And, there is a ton of aftermarket performance parts available. You can go mild to wild!

Just my 2 cents! Have fun. John

[WorldClassAccident]

John - I looked at the G46 Gary is working on and it looks great. The MX5/Maita was my first thought but not sure the width is right and the rear subframe would make it harder to narrow, wouldn't it?

I thought the rear track was the same as the Scimitar which according to Carfolio the Scimitar rear track is 1334mm (52.5 inch)

Mazda MX 5 rear track 1440 (56.7 inch)

Please tell me if I am wrong. I am happy to make life easier for myself.

[redratbike]

Originally Posted by jmc14

I would build a space frame for Miata parts than put the G-46 skin over that. The Miata suspension is great. It doesn't use struts. I believe it's the proper width without modifiying. I would keep the drivetrain the stock length. The longer wheelbase of the G-46 when compared to the Miata means that the engine will have a rearward bias. The Miata suspension cradles include the upper and lower pick up points, steering rack mounts, diff mounts, sway bars. You would just need to fab engine mounts. The suspension cradles simply bolt in to the Miata, they will simply bolt into the new frame.

I am building this type of frame for the Sammio and then probably will do one for the G-46 as well. I have built similar style frames using new Corvette parts for my cars. The frames are light and stiff. I have built around 30 of them. You will end up with an incredible performance car.

Another advantage of using Miata is that the drivetrain/suspension is interchangeable from 1990-2004. The cost is low. And, there is a ton of aftermarket performance parts available. You can go mild to wild!

Just my 2 cents! Have fun. John

font of knowledge ..seems like you have it sussed out

and i've seen a great conversion using the supercharger from a mini cooper as a budget diy performance solution for these engines...

[jmc14]

When I looked up the specs for the SE5 I found the width to be 66 inches. This is the same as the Miata. (Gary, what's the width of the G-46?). The difference in tracks comes from old suspension design to modern design. The Miata has a zero scrub radius. Draw a line through the upper and lower ball joints and where the line hits the ground is the center of the tire. Most older designs have the that point to the inside of the tire. This results in a narrower "track" when compared to new technology.

The difference between the point on the ground to the center of the tire is called the "scrub radius". The greater the scrub radius the greater the "leverage" exerted on to the control arms and tie rods. This results in harder steering and the steering to shake back and forth as the suspension moves. Ever have your steering wheel jerk back and forth while traveling over rough roads? This is caused by the scrub radius (bump steer too) being wrong.

Any way I think the over all widths are correct. If not a little body modification would not be a problem.

The Miata is the easy way to go. You can use every part, just need to extend the steering shaft.

In my humble opinion.

I have a jig base that was built on a NASCAR flat table. As soon as I receive my body from Gary I will get the frame built. I will have Jigs to reproduce it. My jig allows for adjustable wheelbases. If only I were in England!

By the way I purchased my Miata for $25 and drove it into my trailer. The unibody has some rust and would not pass inspection here. But, the drivetrain and suspension seems fine. Even has new tires!

[WorldClassAccident]

MX5 is the way to go then.

Gary did suggest the same but suggested i check carfolio for the details and I got worried when the track was so different.

I don't mind so flaired arches at the back if necessary. Now just need to find an MX-5

Any recommendation for good places to get cheap MX5 near Southampton welcome. I will be checking eBay etc but any other ideas?

[Roadster]

hi
MX5 is the way to go I was very close to going G46 over mine
The G46 is a bit longer though to keep the standard length you could section it.

[WorldClassAccident]

Looking at the MX5 chassis it looks like I could just replace the existing bit between the front and rear sub-frames with a longer bit.

JMC's idea of creating some engine mounts and retaining the existing drive train is appealing if I can get it to fit.

Front/mid engined G46 with room for a supercharger and cooling up front ;-)

[davecymru]

Just remember that if you're UK based and you don't use the classic donor vehicle then you're highly likely to have to get it IVA tested. it's not that big a worry if you're of the same "give it a go" mentality as the rest of us, but it had not been mentioned so far so i thought i'd chip in

[WorldClassAccident]

I am based in Southampton, just down the road from Gary.

he has given me contact details of a bloke near here who can build me a chassis and has experience getting stuff through SVA (i assume IVA is the newer version or at least similar).

Any info on where other Sammio owners are based?

Wondering who I can beg help/support from. :-)

[WorldClassAccident]

just looked again at the BRM in my first posting. I wonder if MrsWCA would notice if I built two cars? I wonder if Gary fancies trying another model?

[Patton]

Hi and welcome to the nut house, if you look at the thread "what kit number are you" that should give you an idea of where people are. I love the "open" wheels look but the law don't unfortunatly. I get the feeling Gary has burnt out for now with new models after the G46 and the 550, if you look back through the threads an Aston Martin Zagato look alike was suggested and that looks the "mutts nuts". Oh but to dream, you'll get a lot of support here and ideas it's a pity the show season is over it was great to meet the like minded and face loads of questions about the car and I love to rabbit just like here, cheers. PAT (and Skippy)

[WorldClassAccident]

I reckon some tyre coloured close fitting mud guards should pass the law...

Anyway, I think I will get my Sammio G46 'Sinatra'* build first although that won't be starting until after Christmas unless I find a bargain MX5 before then.

*The Sinatra Sammio looks similar to others but 'I did it my way'

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident

I reckon some tyre coloured close fitting mud guards should pass the law...

Anyway, I think I will get my Sammio G46 'Sinatra'* build first although that won't be starting until after Christmas unless I find a bargain MX5 before then.

*The Sinatra Sammio looks similar to others but 'I did it my way'

Hooray, someone else who relly 'gets' the Sammio concept! Welcome to the fold.

I too have had a dream to build my own 356/RSK/289 Cobra, etc that's been simmering under the surface for thirty years, and Gary's simple and affordable offerings have finally allowed me to begin living the dream.

Don't be too keen to go down the modern mechanicals route though. I ran an MX5 (Miata) for a while five or six years ago and I found it really soulless. Everything was almost too good meaning it completely lacked the character of the fifties sports racing cars I love (although it did break down on me).

To me the point of Sammio ownership isn't about going really, really fast: buy a Japanese superbike if you want to do that, it's about building something yourself, your way, and enjoying the experience of driving a machine that looks, sounds and goes like something from a bygone era.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck and there'll be no shortage of advice and ideas from fellow builders.

[lancelot link]

WORLDCLASS.....Good to meet you the other day , I really appreciate it when people take the time to come and see what we do ...banging ideas about and talking concepts through always lightens a day for me ...

Glad you found your way on here as well - This forum is proving invaluable to builders and prospective builders alike.

I will put a tape across the 46 tomorrow , but I am pretty sure the MX5 is about right to go under her...I will post some stats tomorrow for you.

The subframe concept of the MX5 is perfect for a donor car ...they are very simple to adapt to various wheelbases as well....It hasn't gone unthought about here !!

Pats right when he says we are a bit burnt out at present though ....introducing two new models last year ( although the 550 was fairly straightforward as I have had that variation of the car in my head for years ) has stretched us time wise and financially ....I reckon I need to sell five 550's and about 10 G46 packages to get even ....

I do have some other ideas banging around , variations on what we are doing already as well as an Art Deco inspired Roadster thats been niggling me for about 15 years !! but we need to sit back , get the shop more organised and start getting some money back in first !!