Dual 7" Servo

[Grey V8 Pete]

Originally Posted by Mike

I've had a couple of guys express an interest in a Dual 7" servo following the last project. Duksville still do not have any in stock, so I was wondering if there are a few more interested in one of these units, and shipping another half dozen units from MBM again?

Any one interested, or are we all done?

Hi Mike. Maybe wait until other members have had a chance to see them installed in our cars at Stoneleigh and also seen our smiling faces :-)

[jrclem]

Please put me down on your list for a new brake upgrade sero, Have read all the reports in Pitstop and looks like one of great modification.

john

[Mike]

Just a quick update:

Following the Pitstop article, and a circular email to all MOC member Sportster and Hunter owners, I have received commitments from 8 owners wishing to be included in the second (and final) batch of servo kits, so it will definitely go ahead.

Early adopters may be smuggly pleased to note the later batch will be more expensive due to MBM increasing their prices, and the quote for freight for 8 units is nearly as much as the cost for the original 18 - let's hope the final order is nearer the original total.
Nonetheless later adopters can take comfort that the kit has now been very well received by those you have tested it on the road, and at around £125 is still the best value modification you'll ever make to your Marlin.

I plan to wait until after the Stoneleigh show to determine the final order number. Unless it reachesthe level of the first batch, it will be necessary to restrict the specification to just one type - probably the Powder Coated servo - as this seems to be the more highly prefered servo.

Do any of the original adopters have any positive suggestions to make regarding a second order? The old adage applies- if its positive, tell everyone - if its negative tell me privately!

[Mike]

Mark Matthews from Marlin Cars has replied to my emails, asking them for an update on the fitting of the servo kit to their demonstrator, with the following:

Quote :
Hi Mike
I understand that you will no longer be obtaining any more servos after this next batch or indeed carrying a permanent stock. As the servo has been received with great interest and enthusiasm by current Marlin owners I think its only right that Marlin Cars will offer to purchase and carry a small stock for both existing owners and of course all those new owners that we are creating every day.

So if you feel happy that the initial sales have been taken up and we are in fact for most part looking to normal replacements, very occasional upgrades and new kit build users would you, from the MOC perspective, let me be able to order these servos directly form the manufacturers (it would make me feel an awful lot more comfortable about suitability for purpose and liability insurance.

Hope you can understand the reasons for my position and I am thankful for all your pro-active efforts in improving the standard of Marlin kits generally.

Yours Sincerely
Mark Matthews"
Unquote.

I am not sure what to make of it really
Any thoughts?

[Patrick]

They'll deal with importing and selling is what I get from it - wonder what the unit price will end up as.

[NigelB]

Originally Posted by Mike

Mark Matthews from Marlin Cars has replied to my emails, asking them for an update on the fitting of the servo kit to their demonstrator, with the following:

Quote :
Hi Mike
I understand that you will no longer be obtaining any more servos after this next batch or indeed carrying a permanent stock. As the servo has been received with great interest and enthusiasm by current Marlin owners I think its only right that Marlin Cars will offer to purchase and carry a small stock for both existing owners and of course all those new owners that we are creating every day.

So if you feel happy that the initial sales have been taken up and we are in fact for most part looking to normal replacements, very occasional upgrades and new kit build users would you, from the MOC perspective, let me be able to order these servos directly form the manufacturers (it would make me feel an awful lot more comfortable about suitability for purpose and liability insurance.

Hope you can understand the reasons for my position and I am thankful for all your pro-active efforts in improving the standard of Marlin kits generally.

Yours Sincerely
Mark Matthews"
Unquote.

I am not sure what to make of it really
Any thoughts?

I don't really understand what Mark's position is from his mail but perhaps he thought that you wanted to become a "servo trader" and sell servos to him with a few quid in your back pocket into the bargin!! But that was never what you wanted and I think Mark's approach is right. When I first suggested talking to Marlin about the servo on this forum my thought is that he should take it on as standard part of the kit because of the obvious safety benefits. Clearly he will want to make sure it is fit for purpose if he is offering it as a recommended / standard solution to cover any product / public liability issues.

I think you should count this as a great success. You, and your fellow conspirators have identified, trialled and proved a significant upgrade to Marlin cars and Marlin have decided to adopt it as a solution. Congratulations to everyone involved.

Now. What about the IPR.....................??!!

[denniswpearce]

I think Mark is seeking to make sure you are happy for him to import these servo's, as you up to now have been the sole importer for Marlins for these units.
Each of us has been responsible for our own installations and testing but Mark, once he imports them and markets them via Marlin, will be responsible in law for their suitablility for the cars he sells.
Thats my take on it.

As Nigel says, you should count this as a great success to which we are all indebted to you.

[Grey V8 Pete]

I agree with Dennis above. I am planning to visit Mark and let him have a play with my Dual Servo'd Hunter just as soon as I can fix an ongoing misfire problem on the V8. Currently waiting for a new Ignition amplifier!

[peterux]

I agree, I think Mark is just establishing the fact that he wants to import and sell directly to customers than via you. I think this is what you wanted anyway?
If Mark is smart (which I think he is) he has spotted a bigger market in the UK Kitcar scene. This is full endorsement that he wants to supply new customers so he is obviously impressed.

BTW there is now a US supplier on eBay that will ship direct to the UK...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3208654336...1#ht_500wt_969

Not a bad price as it includes a clevis adapter and an extended pin. Of course, you'll have to add import duty at 20%(I think). And it doesn't include you great m/C adapter plate.

(BTW2 - my own servo upgrade is now in process. Servo and M/C is bolted in. Need to make up my extended pin and do the plumbing/bleeding, etc)

[Mike]

Originally Posted by peterux

I agree, I think Mark is just establishing the fact that he wants to import and sell directly to customers than via you. I think this is what you wanted anyway?
If Mark is smart (which I think he is) he has spotted a bigger market in the UK Kitcar scene. This is full endorsement that he wants to supply new customers so he is obviously impressed.

BTW there is now a US supplier on eBay that will ship direct to the UK...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3208654336...1#ht_500wt_969

Not a bad price as it includes a clevis adapter and an extended pin. Of course, you'll have to add import duty at 20%(I think). And it doesn't include you great m/C adapter plate.

(BTW2 - my own servo upgrade is now in process. Servo and M/C is bolted in. Need to make up my extended pin and do the plumbing/bleeding, etc)

All,
Maybe I am a little sensitive to this project having put so much time into it, but I don't think Mark has even bothered to fit it to Marlin's own demonstrator and test it. There is no feedback from him at all - he simply refers to what he is being told. On top of that his opening paragraph is so negative to the point of being critical, which does not sit well with me.Part of me feels like telling him to whistle.............

That said, I have no desire to get involved in importing on speculation and carrying stock, so it would be nice if he does adopt the kit and make it available to future owners.

Patrick mentioned what price Marlin may wish to charge? - that is clearly up to Marlin. They have a business to run, whereas my aim was to keep the costs as low as possible for as many as possible. Having said that, I have made every effort to make this kit known to all potential Marlin Owners Club members, so anyone who arrives late to the party will have to accept Marlins commercial rates. Of course the check to their price being too high is that the servo is well documented within the club and it will be possible to import single units individually.

On that subject, may I offer a little warning.
UK import duties are 5% on servos, and VAT is levied at 20% of the landed UK cost, ie. including freight to UK. So you can see from Peters highlighted ebay source it gets very expensive. Then Parcelforce will charge an additional £13 fee for paying the UK import and VAT at customs on your behalf. This is why it is important to bring a decent sized batch to benefit from a freight forwarding agent to keep these costs down.


Regards to all
Mike

[Mike]

Originally Posted by peterux

(BTW2 - my own servo upgrade is now in process. Servo and M/C is bolted in. Need to make up my extended pin and do the plumbing/bleeding, etc)

Peter

Its good to hear you are making progress with your servo now that you have successfully installed your beast of an engine!
I hope you will as pleased with your new found brakes. Sounds like you will need them!!

Mike

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Mike

Peter

Its good to hear you are making progress with your servo now that you have successfully installed your beast of an engine!
I hope you will as pleased with your new found brakes. Sounds like you will need them!!

Mike

OK, so here's an update of my installation.
You've all seen it all before so I'll try to focus on my own installation differences and ideas.

Here is the new dual diaphragm servo installed with Mike's adaptor plate. This made fitting the Ford M/C a doddle.
I was lucky that my original reservoir pipes were long enough. I good tip I got from Robin was to use the BMW rubber seals on the m/c. One of my front brake pipe was long enough to be reformed to reach the new position. The other was extended alongside of the servo.


Brake Servo Upgrade by marlinpeter, on Flickr

This is a Residual Pressure Valve that I have fitted as I have rear drum brakes. These should not be used if you have disk brakes at the back. The Servo supplier recommends fitting one of these if you have drums at the back and disk brakes at the front.


Brake Servo Upgrade by marlinpeter, on Flickr

As you all know, you have to extend the plunger that goes into the m/c. This is my version using a M6x40mm button head screw and a short length of M6 threaded tube that I bought for £1.50. No lathe or drilling, just bolt it together. This picture is with the brake pedal fully depressed so that I could get to the locking ring.


Brake Servo Upgrade by marlinpeter, on Flickr

With my failing eyesight and vari focals I can't see much close up in the foot-well. Most of this was assembled by feel and I use my digital camera to check everything is installed correctly. The servo clevis is alongside the brake pedal as that is how Marlin designed the Sportster pedal box. I should have modified the brake pedal to move it across but the bolt holding the pedal does not come out in situ so that would mean removing the whole pedal box which I decided was overkill. I think it will be fine like this. This picture is with the brake pedal fully depressed.


Brake Servo Upgrade by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The next picture is with the pedal in its normal rest position. I set the clevis pin up at the same dimension as the old metro servo and extension which in my case was 130mm. I shortened the clevis pin coupler by about 20mm as it was too long under full compression.


Brake Servo Upgrade by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I've made some brackets to support the pipes hanging in free air which are being painted before final fitting. Then I've got to refill and bleed the system.
I need to wheel the car out the garage to be able to get to each wheel for bleeding so it won't be until it stops raining!!

[denniswpearce]

Very interesting Peter, but it highlights yet another difference to my Sportster as my pedal lined up perfectly to sit within the clevis pin.
Just wondering how many more ways my car differs from everyone else's.
Wish I had the dedication to stop and take pics at each step of the way.
Nice job though.
As I have discs all round I do not have the restricter, I have looked.

[peterux]

Originally Posted by denniswpearce

Very interesting Peter, but it highlights yet another difference to my Sportster as my pedal lined up perfectly to sit within the clevis pin.

Whoever built your car probably modified your pedal box to line up the brake pedal with the servo. I know Mike and Robin had already done this and possibly others. I just followed the Marlin design which is not very aesthetically pleasing. My problem is that to get the brake pedal bolt out, I'll have to take the whole pedal box out (or cut a big hole in the side of the chassis?) which means disconnecting and re-bleeding the clutch, etc.

Maybe a winter project when I have nothing else left to do

[denniswpearce]

"nothing else left to do" I don,t think think so, there is always something to do.
Although my brake pedal lines up, there is a slight angle on the cutch operating rod, you only notice it when you are on your back with your head up close and personal with it in the footwell.

[Grey V8 Pete]

Originally Posted by peterux

Whoever built your car probably modified your pedal box to line up the brake pedal with the servo. I know Mike and Robin had already done this and possibly others. I just followed the Marlin design which is not very aesthetically pleasing. My problem is that to get the brake pedal bolt out, I'll have to take the whole pedal box out (or cut a big hole in the side of the chassis?) which means disconnecting and re-bleeding the clutch, etc.

Maybe a winter project when I have nothing else left to do

I also have the bolt tack welded to the pedal on my Hunter. I fitted the dual servo / clevis assembly before I tightened the 4 servo securing bolts. That way there was just enough clearance at the servo nose to allow the clevis to slip over the end of the bolt. I also have an access panel that I cut in the side of the bulkhead a while ago to do a mod on the steering bush so that was a real benefit. I also put a spacer (large nut) between the jaws of the clevis to prevent any distortion of the legs. Peter.

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by peterux

With my failing eyesight and vari focals I can't see much close up in the foot-well. Most of this was assembled by feel and I use my digital camera to check everything is installed correctly.

Aha - I'm glad I'm not the only one. I blame it on computers.....

Robin

[denniswpearce]

And we let you guys loose on the roads in a fast sports car.

Well it beggars belief.

[GreatOldOne]

Hey, they're ok Dennis.

It's just skid pan Cundall here that you have to worry about...

[peterux]

Originally Posted by denniswpearce

And we let you guys loose on the roads in a fast sports car.

Well it beggars belief.