ABS for track/airfield use.

limpabit · #1 14th October 2009, 08:45

Hi everyone.

Just looking at peoples opinions on brakes when on the track. Not sure how many 5EXI's have ABS. Do people without get a lot of wheel lock ups etc?

After speaking to Matt, has helped him knowing that the ABS will cut in. So can afford to really stamp on the brakes and push the speed that little bit more in confidence.

bigrich · #2 14th October 2009, 11:56

Best increase in brake performance that I found was to fit trackday tyres. As the tyres are softer and grippier they grip the road better under braking and therefore lock up later, allowing harder braking.

I would not recommend driving to the limit and stamping on the brakes waiting for the ABS to save you; this is doing it wrong....and will inevitably end up with a messy off.
Rich

alackofspeed · #3 14th October 2009, 12:03

If you're stamping on the brakes, and activating the abs (on an old system), you're more likely to lengthen your braking distance.

To get the most out of your brakes you need to quickly but progressively apply the brakes (so the weight is on the front), and then start to turn the moment you start to think about letting off the brakes. Okay that's the only way to drive, but if you start applying lock as you release the brakes, you've already got the weight on the front wheels, and you'll notice it bite harder.

The rover abs isn't very clever to my knowledge, and thus unable to electronically distribute the brake force like later systems. With a very clever modern system I can imagine you can be lazy and really lean on the electronics to optimise your retardation, but an old ABS unit simply electronically cadence brakes to my knowledge.

If you use your ABS pump regularly on track, it'll probably overheat, throw a fault, and stop working for a while.

limpabit · #4 14th October 2009, 12:04

I don't think the ABS was cutting in very often. Only Matt can say for sure. Gives more confidence I think.

MATT · #5 14th October 2009, 16:01

I have fitted abs to the car as a extra safety as i am not related to damon hill and i mite get it wrong one day like a car alarm you fit it hoping not to use it
when i is on a track day at silverstone nice smooth track the abs did not kick in but when on a airfield track day the abs kick in sometimes on bumpy surfaces
i do not go into corner fast wack the anchor on shut my eyes and hope for the best just there if i get it wrong one day

limpabit · #6 14th October 2009, 16:41

Not had much experience on the track driving the 5exi. But know both yours and mine round Woodbridge did not lock up the brakes. But remember how easy it was to lock up the front wheels when braking sharp on the road.

Funny as you would have expected it to lock up on the track if anything.

Think you car handles great around the airfield. Can't understand why on the original Marlin set up. Especially when the others have had some many problems.

One thought maybe for bigrich & Steve. Is your rear frame welded in?

alackofspeed · #7 14th October 2009, 20:57

I've found braking to generally be good on the airfield surface, but then the tarmac is pretty agressive.

I've had two "moments" on track due to braking. The first was when I was trying to sort the brake balance, which resulted in an 80mph handbrake turn, and some comedy smoke. The second was when I forgot to get some heat in the tyres before "getting on it". Cue me shooting into a corner, unable to stop, and picking a gap in the cones.

nutter · #8 16th October 2009, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpabit

One thought maybe for bigrich & Steve. Is your rear frame welded in?

Yup mine is solid as a rock, welded in.

Im also not fitting ABS to my 5EXi.

Steve

limpabit · #9 16th October 2009, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutter

Im also not fitting ABS to my 5EXi.
Steve

It was looking at your site that made me ask about ABS.

Thought while your at your stage, others might comment if it was worth you going down that route or not.

Good site and diary by the way. Interesting read. Keep up the good work on the site!

alackofspeed · #10 17th October 2009, 09:16

Racelogic traction control would be an interesting option, especially for those chasing high turbo power.

limpabit · #11 17th October 2009, 20:39

Trouble is John, where do you stop with this money pit of a car.

Agree that high powered cars may need something. A 200 bhp car breaks grip quite easy.

Wonder how the high power Elises Or Ultima's come to that cope.

craig · #12 17th October 2009, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpabit

Wonder how the high power Elises Or Ultima's come to that cope.

The higher power elises have 8 inch wide rims and ultima's have hidiously wide tyres on the back which should help somewhat!

The biggest diff I noticed was same as rich! With 888's on the diff in braking is emense....really really noticable

limpabit · #13 18th October 2009, 07:51

I'll see how it goes when it's on the road. Try the 888's. If not, the body work will be next year.

KrazyKen · #14 19th October 2009, 19:57

Haven't been on here for ages so have missed all the latest threads. As I have done around 10K miles on track in my 5EXi and got through 3 sets of 888's and have ABS brakes this is one of the few subjects I can contribute to. So here goes: -

My set up is the brakes off of a standard Rover 218BRM with ABS but I have upgraded the pads to EBC Yellowstuff and EBC race fluid. A set of 888's lasts me 2-3000 miles nearly all of which is track use and getting to & from the circuit (no Trailer). I use the ABS on every track day mainly for trail braking to the apex, I can also flip it round on the brakes if I need to as in karting. Although this looks spectucular it scrubs off too much speed to be effective for a quick lap time. I always however turn in whilst braking usually with the ABS chunterring away inder my right foot. This is a technique that takes time to master and as with everything there is no substitute for time in the drivers seat on track.

With regards to ABS I find I can brake later with it and thereby improve my laptime. There was also the time it saved me from a heavy front end smack after coming over a blind crest when driving the Nurburgring last year. The biggest difference however to your brakes will be to change to EBC Yellowstuff pads and race fluid. I can hammer the brakes all day long doing over 200 miles on track without the slightest hint of fade. I favour EBC because they provide me with my pads and fluid half price direct from the factory. I found out from EBC that the Rover 218 brake system is the same as fitted to the Honda Prelude & Accord from the same time - mid 90's so the brakes are over engineered for a Rover 218 let alone a 5EXi.

With regards to track days always start off at an airfield to get some practice in before going to the nice looking circuits that bite back if you get it wrong. Every year I always do my first track day at Colerne through MSE as it shakes off a bit of winter rust (on me not the car) and reprogrammes the brain for a summer of track days.

Hope this helps all those reading this and I will try not to leave it so long between visiting the forum next time.