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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Dino 246 Builds and Discussion

Dino 246 Builds and Discussion Da da da da daaa daa da da, ohoho Dino

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  #81  
Old 17th November 2017, 19:17
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default Cromodora CD 1 specifications

What is the spec of original Cromodora CD1 Ferrari Dino wheels? I have a set and measured them years ago but can't remember. This from the Ferrarichat website suggests their offset is 4 inches (approx 100mm)! But this is nuts and based on physical measurements John Corbani took 12 years ago. He is referring to the distance fro the edge of the wheel to the mounting face of the wheel but isn't offset the distance from the centreline of the wheel to the mounting face?:
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...offsets.69024/


a quick look at the diagrams in the Ferrari 246 workshop manual and a CD1 blueprint in an Italian magazine article suggests that the offset isn't zero and is more like minus 14mm to minus 11 (or the 3/4" Corbani suggested) :

Dino246_rear_suspension.jpg

Cromodora_magazine-article3.jpg

Dino_Cromodora_CD1.jpg

I know Dehavilland suggested they would sell zero offset "CD1" replicas in 15x7" but the photo they show of a wheel on their Facebook page doesn't look that much like a CD1!
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  #82  
Old 18th November 2017, 08:49
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Hi ross

I was told the cromadora wheels as fitted to the dino were a 0mm offset and I have based everything around this. Now I know the deon used an 8mm offset and I assume this was to bring the wheels slightly inwards so I'm assuming this would be minus - offset? I guess some net searching would either correct me or put me straight!
Now I have a set of reproduction cromadora's in the attic so will measure these later today. (guess should have measured earlier!!).
The first dino 206 bodyshell was built to fit on a lotus europa chassis I beleive-thread elsewhere on here-and may have been stretched to fit. Jhclassic' Jon Hurst then saw an opportunity in the market the came up with a chassis to fit the body shell.This is where I think the track has grown. Fitting the chassis to the body and not the other way round.

ian
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  #83  
Old 18th November 2017, 17:29
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Hi all

I've measured my cromadora wheels and they have a 5mm off set.See photos.
The mounting face of the wheel is 5mm off the centre of the wheel towards the outer face meaning the wheel track becomes smaller.
I now know this is a plus + offset as it states it on the wheel box-doh!!

ian
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  #84  
Old 18th November 2017, 17:49
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecarbuilder246 View Post
Hi all

I've measured my cromadora wheels and they have a 5mm off set.See photos.
The mounting face of the wheel is 5mm off the centre of the wheel towards the outer face meaning the wheel track becomes smaller.
I now know this is a plus + offset as it states it on the wheel box-doh!!

ian
If you take a look at the first photo you will see from the mounting face to the outside face of the wheel the measurement is 107mm. The wheel overall is 204mm. So centre of wheel is half this size 102mm minus the 107mm gives us a size of plus 5mm.

ian
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  #85  
Old 18th November 2017, 17:49
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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The wheels look fantastic Ian! Where'd you get them and did you have the PCD & bore custom drilled for your hubs? Dinos were originally 5x108 PCD too but the centre bore was about 58-59mm if I recall correctly. Are your hubs Ford?
cheers
Ross (in NZ)
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  #86  
Old 18th November 2017, 18:05
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Hi ross

The wheels came from superformance around 3/4 years ago and at that time were 545 a set plus vat. They have gone up recently as new owners have taken over and I think they are nearer 800 plus vat now. PLus vat at that time had been reduced temporarily to 15%. It's 20% here now.
The bore is the standard bore they came with and I need to machine new spacers up to fit the wheels to the new hubs. At the moment the spacers are for the lancia beta/fiat 124 hubs.

ian
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  #87  
Old 18th November 2017, 18:25
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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hi ross

couple more photo's for you.
first is the re machined hubs and brembo dis'c
second is the newly made brake carrier
third fitted to hub with wilwood caliper
fourth is when I trail fitted the cromadora.

ian
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  #88  
Old 18th November 2017, 20:07
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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That's looking amazing Ian. So what hubs and discs have you used? What machining did the hubs need?
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  #89  
Old 18th November 2017, 20:57
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scimjim scimjim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossnzwpi View Post
What is the spec of original Cromodora CD1 Ferrari Dino wheels? I have a set and measured them years ago but can't remember. This from the Ferrarichat website suggests their offset is 4 inches (approx 100mm)! But this is nuts and based on physical measurements John Corbani took 12 years ago. He is referring to the distance fro the edge of the wheel to the mounting face of the wheel but isn't offset the distance from the centreline of the wheel to the mounting face?
The 4 is backspace - hub mounting face to rim. Offset as you say is hub mounting face to wheel centreline.
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  #90  
Old 18th November 2017, 23:15
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default original offset - 14x6.5 Cromodora CD1

Well, my curiosity is peaked now so I measured one of my original Dino wheels - as fitted new on a 1971 Dino 246:
it is 193mm wide ( centre line therefore @ 96.5mm)
mounting face of the wheel is 114mm deep
offset is therefore 17.5mm
(as measured with my daughter's plastic ruler, LOL)

Cromodora_CD1_mine.jpg

Cromodoara_CD1_mark.jpg

Cromodora_CD1_1971.jpg

Cromodora_CD1_width_193mm.jpg

Cromodora_offset_calculation-3.jpg
I should add that the distance from the mark on the ruler ( 196mm ) to the base of the ruler sitting on the wheel mounting face is 114mm
cheers
Ross
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  #91  
Old 19th November 2017, 14:05
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Hi Ross

I had some steel spacers cnc machined up to press fit on to the fiat 124 hubs from the back. The back face was machined parallel to the front face. The outside diameter was untouched and used for accuracy.
With the spacers pressed on to the fiat hubs new 5x108 holes were bored and new studs pressed in from the back. The steel spacers were also machined on there outside diameter for the new brembo disc's. The spacers sit approximately 0.25mm down from the hub face again using this original face for accuracy when bolting the wheels up.The action of the wheels being bolted on eliminates any chance of anything coming loose!!
To mount the brakes I first tried to use the original fiat caliper mount and machined an aluminium adaptor to mount my wilwood calipers onto but it was to baulky and also clashed with the steering arm on full lock.So I designed my own based around the fiat ones had them laser cut and I welded them up.
The original fiat hubs had a taper on the wheel mount boss so this was squared up so I could turn up my spacers.
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  #92  
Old 19th November 2017, 14:16
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Hi Ross

The rears were done in a similar way but are bolted from the front as there was not enough room to fit them from the back.
Again cnc machined up but this time the were surface ground from the machine face for accuracy. As I couldn't press these on I've used the hub nut to hold them on and again used the wheel bolts. The brakes have been mounted using an adaptor mounted to the original brake mounts.
I'm not happy with the handbrake assembly so I'm looking at removing this and using a pair of brembo units.
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  #93  
Old 19th November 2017, 14:22
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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hi ross

the rear brakes were a pain as I've tried to incorporate the hand brake.
I've made new mounts and I've had to reshape the strut brackets and also weld the bolt in to become a captive thread to prevent it clashing with the cable mount,but I've managed to get it all in.
Will look at brembo handbrake calipers though.
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Last edited by thecarbuilder246; 19th November 2017 at 14:41.. Reason: missed a bit off
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  #94  
Old 19th November 2017, 15:11
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Hi

Forgot to add-my wheels are larger than the standard 14 inch on the 246 dino
at 16 inch as I wanted a larger choice of tyre. And these wheels are usually supplied by superformance to be used in conjunction with the 246 big brake upgrade kit. This may be the reason behind the different offset.

ian
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  #95  
Old 19th November 2017, 18:05
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Wow, impressive engineering! Thanks for explaining Ian.
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  #96  
Old 19th November 2017, 23:16
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossnzwpi View Post
Wow, impressive engineering! Thanks for explaining Ian.
It took 2 years!! And I was lucky enough to have two spare front hubs to practice on as well.

ian
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  #97  
Old 20th November 2017, 00:02
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Spares - always useful. I was about to pick up a couple of MX5 spindles & hubs to see if the Alfa 166 rear hub could be adapted to them - since it is perfect for my cromodora cd1s.
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  #98  
Old 20th November 2017, 11:53
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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hi ross

I think I read somewhere where someone used a pair of toyota mr2 rear handbrake calipers and swapped the hub and bearings for alfa hubs when they fitted an alfa v6 engine and box to a deon-but can't remember where!

ian
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