What's the future of the Kit Industry?

[Patrick]

IIRC Stands are expensive and can run anywhere from a few 1000 to into the 10000 mark depending on how its made and whats involved (based on what I've seen on the consumer electronics side of things!)

[lambogenie]

Thats probably why kit manufacturers are short on the ground at recent shows then!

[kitcarman]

Originally Posted by Patrick

IIRC Stands are expensive and can run anywhere from a few 1000 to into the 10000 mark depending on how its made and whats involved (based on what I've seen on the consumer electronics side of things!)

Actually Patrick,
Stands at Kit Car shows cost about £250 each.

Den

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by kitcarman

Actually Patrick,
Stands at Kit Car shows cost about £250 each.

Den

My mistake, I guess the electronics industry pays a lot more! Or more likely they just have more to spend

[lambogenie]

I take it one car will fit onto a £250 stand?? Most manufacturers have three or four cars to show? £1000 pounds please! Ching ching!! I'm in the wrong game ! Three or four car shows a year, advertising in a couple of mags and profit gone, unless you have a high end car like the Ultima selling for big bucks/profit.
How much does it cost to run say a quarter page advert for a year in your mag kitcarman out of interest?

[kitcarman]

Originally Posted by lambogenie

How much does it cost to run say a quarter page advert for a year in your mag kitcarman out of interest?

As a one-off, a quarter page costs £150 plus vodka and tonic, but if booked as a series for a year it comes down to £100 (or even less if Tom’s arm is twisted).

[lambogenie]

Four or five grand on shows and £1200 for mag! Plus overheads of business premises...Mmmm. Don't envy the manufacturers!

[kitcarman]

Originally Posted by lambogenie

Four or five grand on shows and £1200 for mag! Plus overheads of business premises...Mmmm. Don't envy the manufacturers!

Actually, to run any business, the businessman has to put that sort of money (and more) into advertising and promotion.
The fact is that, if anything, kit car advertising rates and exhibitions are very cost-effective. What’s more; those companies who take advantage of it are those who prosper.
Advertising and promotion is as an important part of the success of a business as its staff and materials. Without all three the company will not prosper.
Den.

[Ex-Biker]

Originally Posted by lambogenie

Four or five grand on shows and £1200 for mag! Plus overheads of business premises...Mmmm. Don't envy the manufacturers!

That is very cheap.

Our company will spend £20k on advertising /yr, plus extras for trade stands, merchandising and marketing.

A half page ad in most mags will be more like £1200 / issue.

Originally Posted by kitcarman

What’s more; those companies who take advantage of it are those who prosper.

This is fully understandable. It is marketing that sells products just as much as quality and value.
If you are not aware something is available, you'll never buy it!
If your marketing is trendy, your product is, therefore more people will buy it.
So does the future of the kit car industry lie with the magazines and the way the industry is marketed?

Sorry Den, but b*tchin' ain't marketing.

[kitcarman]

Originally Posted by Ex-Biker

So does the future of the kit car industry lie with the magazines and the way the industry is marketed?

It certainly lies with the way the industry is marketed. I believe that the magazines play a very important part in that. Lying magazines haven’t helped….

Originally Posted by Ex-Biker

Sorry Den, but b*tchin' ain't marketing.

Hmmm… without stirring up a hornet’s nest, my campaign hasn’t been as mindless as your terminology suggests.

Was my spilling the beans the cause of the problem, or the first stage of its cure? I’d like to think that I’ve straightened a bent press – by alerting readers to the fact that beyond the gloss and hype there are real issues.

Standing up for what’s right has cost me dearly but I got there in the end! Now, from a position of financial strength, and having regained my personal confidence, I’m moving forward in promoting this industry. The A to Z Guide presently appearing in Kit Car, at 400+ pages when complete, will be the biggest publication this industry has ever seen. I think it will get people drooling and breath new life into the Kit Car industry.

I’ll be following it up with further innovative marketing in the New Year.

Den.

[Ex-Biker]

Den

You know I am not saying you were right or wrong in what you set out to achieve etc. My point relates more to newcomers and others that want to read a mag.

If you were new to kit cars, say you had just visited TKC Live and got very excited about the prospect of buying a kit.

Off you go to WH Smiths to buy a mag. Which one would you buy?



Why?








Marketing (magazine) can be geared towards many things. One of which is the appearance & layout. The first thing that attracts anyone is the cover, so this has to jump out at you.

Next most people pick up the mag and flick through. So pictures need to be a good quality, attractive to look at and a good selection need to be on the right hand page. I also like the highlighted text. I know its a filler, but it gives you the gist of a story, thus gaining interest.

What you don't want to draw a browser's attention to is anything that would turn them off reading it. I believe this is one of the things that has happened to the main mags in the industry.

I know this is common knowledge to any publisher (and many of the public), but it's always worth revisiting your ideals on how the mag should look and take into account some trends from mags in other sectors.

Den, this ain't a dig, hopefully it's constructive to everyone.

BTW, I look forward to the 'innovative marketing' in the new year

[lambogenie]

[QUOTE=Ex-Biker]Den

Next most people pick up the mag and flick through.
What you don't want to draw a browser's attention to is anything that would turn them off reading it.

So i'm not alone when I flick through a mag to see if I wish to purchase it? Maybe you would increase sales if you removed the covering Den? What am I saying, you've got more money than you can spend now! £1200 x 50 adverts = How much!! Ha Ha

[Ex-Biker]

Originally Posted by lambogenie

So i'm not alone when I flick through a mag to see if I wish to purchase it? Maybe you would increase sales if you removed the covering Den? What am I saying, you've got more money than you can spend now! £1200 x 50 adverts = How much!! Ha Ha

How much? Not a lot from what I see.

How much do you think it costs to produce a magazine?

[rushturbo]

The Host site has no interest in the kit car market, their business is display space.
As for the cost of stands, i had 2 days at Earls Court this year £7,500 was my share. The stand was shared between 7 of us!!

Manufacturers need to improve there product, get them right up to date with tecnology, even if it means a much higher purchase price.

Fast, Lightweight & cheap in comparison to the new car market.

Cheap, out dated parts have no appeal

[kartman]

Originally Posted by rushturbo

Fast, Lightweight & cheap in comparison to the new car market.

When you have worked out how to achieve this impossiblity please let all the manufacturers know......

I have been through it before.....simple production numbers mean that to develop a car/kit which is only going to have say 20 units produced a year will have a massive R&D cost per unit, so they wont be 'cheap'.

Mainstream manufacturers can do it due to the massive production numbers.

[rushturbo]

Compare cost's of a kit car to your mainstream, they are peanuts. They can afford a price hike.

There are different points of view as to cost vs qaulity.

From what I understand, the best selling 7 is the most expensive.

Cheap does not always sell. How does a 3 series bm out sell a mondeo in a year?

Development does not need to be that expensive. Kits are relatively simple manufacturing processes.

[Fuoriserie]

Originally Posted by kartman

When you have worked out how to achieve this impossiblity please let all the manufacturers know......

I have been through it before.....simple production numbers mean that to develop a car/kit which is only going to have say 20 units produced a year will have a massive R&D cost per unit, so they wont be 'cheap'.

Mainstream manufacturers can do it due to the massive production numbers.

Yep. I agree with you on this, it's a very difficult equation to solve......but creative thinking and ideas can help, and using existing chassis and cloth them with a different shape, is cheaper than design a new model all together.

Maybe you need to show your readers a few design ideas, and challenge the industry with something new, just by using an existing chassis manufactured by any kit manufacture.

The TONIQ-R project shows what you can do with your locost chassis...., but any chassis could do.

Why don't you run a design contest.
"Design a new and simple kit " using a cheap simple donor, a locost chassis, or any chassis.
Or rebody an existing car....

You set the rules, you could even run it in your next issue...

[kartman]

Originally Posted by rushturbo

Development does not need to be that expensive. Kits are relatively simple manufacturing processes.

Den.......help me out here......I cant find the words....

[rushturbo]

Could end up with hundreds of drawings of concept cars which would never reach production of any form.

How about some builders devepment pages??

You could invite actual conversions that have been done and rate them on their merits. All builders are responsible for development as we develop small changes from the manufacture's spec, could be use change of clips upto chassis changes.

Take any chassis and put 10 complete cars together, none are the same, and there sure will be some improved build on some models, which the manufacturers have never seen.

One of the largest part of development is feedback from manufacture's services, weakest areas etch. the manufacturers use this to target areas for improvement to the product.

Kit manufacture's miss out on a lot of this valuable feedback. As they have no hand in the build or servicing

[kitcarman]

Hi Mark,
I know that we’re singing off the same hymn sheet, but was concerned that certain onlookers wouldn’t understand what you meant by “Sorry Den, but b*tchin' ain't marketing”.

I know that what was said was difficult to comprehend, but it’s done now and it’s been effective. There can’t be many who are unaware of the fact that certain titles can’t be read at face value on certain topics and, I think, people are now equally aware that one magazine leads the field by a country mile.

That’s one of the reasons why the new Kit Car Guide is such a success. It’s being supported by manufacturers who only a year ago would not have wanted to be in it. Of the 100 models featured so far, only 3 haven’t contributed toward its cost (one of those was Bugrat).

My point is that even if I’ve been “ b*tchin'” it HAS served as marketing. To be taken seriously in this industry, I had to undo the cumulative effect of a decade of lies about me. Those lies were debilitating both from a personal perspective and had financial ramifications.

Setting the record straight is not all that I’ve done. I simultaneously made the magazine bigger, improved the technical journalism by recruiting Nigel and put considerable effort into ‘marketing’ to those who stock magazines.

Strides have been made too in the areas you’ve just mentioned. The covers have been better, as has been the photography and layouts. I honestly believe that newcomers will get a better impression of the industry than previously.

What I’m saying, Mark, is that I’m doing my very best to improve the industry’s image. The messy situation of putting Fib’s in his place was a necessary part of the overall package, because not only do the mags have to look good, but they have to be trustworthy too – otherwise they’re about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Originally Posted by lambogenie

So i'm not alone when I flick through a mag to see if I wish to purchase it? Maybe you would increase sales if you removed the covering Den?

Twice this year we’ve bagged the mag in order to enclose free catalogues. If this troubles you: you only need open the bag in the shop – many do! On both occasions our sales increased!

Originally Posted by rushturbo

There are different points of view as to cost vs qaulity.

There are indeed, and I’ll look particularly favourably at any kit which offers a reasonable product for a reasonable price. However, and I’ve said this before, honest magazines report what they find: rather than find what they report.

In compiling the new guide; I see various new development trends. It’s only a matter of time before one or more of them become ‘trendy’ as was the case with beach buggies in the 1970’s, the Duttons of the !980’s and many replicas of the 1990’s. As then, early examples were less attractive than later, more refined, models.

Originally Posted by Fuoriserie

You set the rules, you could even run it in your next issue...

Hi Fuoriserie,
Please don’t burden poor ole Kartman with publishing responsibilities. So far as I’m aware he isn’t a publisher (yet)…. although there might be a rag for sale soon!!!!

Den