Dino V6 conversion - Page 2

rossnzwpi · #21 30th January 2016, 21:48

Hi Neil,
interesting picture that you added today. I take it by "near side" you mean left hand side looking forward? So we're looking at the Alfa V6 diff and half shaft (and intermediate shaft) from the rear, with boot floor at the top of the picture ? From your other pictures it looks like the Alfa V6 almost fits under the engine lid of your Classic Replicas body/chassis with engine mounted with almost level drive shafts? Is it just the engine mounting/stabilising rod (not sure what its called) that stands out proud of the engine lid? If so, couldn't it be re-routed as its location doesn't seem critical.

Looking at the various CR, Deon body shells they do seem to droop a bit lower at the rear and perhaps have lower engine bay height as a result.
Cheers
Ross (in NZ)

NeilF355 · #22 31st January 2016, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossnzwpi

I take it by "near side" you mean left hand side looking forward? So we're looking at the Alfa V6 diff and half shaft (and intermediate shaft) from the rear, with boot floor at the top of the picture ?

You are correct Ross (Note to self -don't be parochial, this is the WORLD WIDE web after all, just because we drive on the left in the UK doesn't mean that everybody does. Haha!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossnzwpi

From your other pictures it looks like the Alfa V6 almost fits under the engine lid of your Classic Replicas body/chassis with engine mounted with almost level drive shafts? Is it just the engine mounting/stabilising rod (not sure what its called) that stands out proud of the engine lid? If so, couldn't it be re-routed as its location doesn't seem critical.

Unfortunately the rocker cover also stands proud of the engine lid(see attachment), it's something I need to address, not quite sure how yet.
Neil

rossnzwpi · #23 31st January 2016, 19:30

I guess plenum chambers can be altered/replaced/repositioned but the top of the engine bank itself can only be either lowered by rotation of the engine or by dropping the engine. The latter affects the driveshaft angle too and I'm not sure how much you gain by canting it forward more. That leaves adjusting the body. Unless you want to do some major work the best option seems a hump in the engine lid.

molleur · #24 31st January 2016, 19:42

I agree with the above post. Least expensive best alternative is to hump the lid.

massa · #25 1st February 2016, 18:40

hello lads, my alfa v6 in my deon has got a humped engine lid hence no worries about fouling I,ll try and upload some pics for you to see, there is a angle of the near side drive shaft but iv,e done 3k last year in the car no issues so don't anticipate any, only problem I get is being 6ft 1 and getting on in years lol might be looking for something a bit more comfortable in the near future regards dave

NeilF355 · #26 2nd February 2016, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drsquashdavid

I did buy seperate engine and luggage covers with the intent of using them, but amongst the reasons I didn't was the problem of overcoming the engine position , height and canopy clearance.
BW
Dave

Hi Dave
I am looking for separate engine and luggage covers for my Dino.

Do you still have the ones you mentioned?

If so are they specifically for the Mirabeau or did they originate from one of the other Dino replicas (De Havilland, Classic replicas, Classic and Sports Cars unlimited (Cascu), Deon Scoperto) ?

Cheers
Neil

NeilF355 · #27 3rd February 2016, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossnzwpi

I made this quick picture. I think it would be really helpful if people could take some photos and measurements. (I know its hard to take photos if your project is not mobile though). That will help people plan their engine swaps. We can compare the real Dino to JH Classics/Deon, Scoperto, Classic Replicas, Dehavilland, Cascu's.
Cheers
Ross

Hi Ross
I've managed to get some measurements from my part completed Classic Replicas 206GT. The engine is the Alfa V6 (Busso) 12v 2959cc. As it doesn't have an engine cover yet I can't detail some of the measurements but here are the ones I have
1) Ground up to centre of wheels :- 300mm
2) Wheel centre to wheel centre (wheelbase) :- 2230mm (which surprisingly is a bit short of the original 206GT's 2280mm)
3a) From ground to sump :- 140mm (a sumpguard might be a good idea!)
3b) From ground to top of engine :- 820mm
4) From ground to engine cover Not Available.

As it's still a project the only side view I have of it is this one from when I collected it on a trailer. As you can see it currently has 15" Alfa wheels which I will be replacing with a set of 15" cromodora replicas.

thecarbuilder246 · #28 3rd February 2016, 16:19

Hi
For what it's worth I would say looking at your car it is a jhclassic's/deon body you have.Or I should say a mold from a shell from their mold. Classic replica's took a mold from a deon (formaly jhclassic') customer's car in return for completing his car. Not sure if they did ever complete the car though!!
As dehavilland took possession of jhclaasic's mold's when John Hurst went in to MR2 body swaps I'd say they are your best bet to get a engine cover and a boot lid that should fit.

Ian

NeilF355 · #29 4th February 2016, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecarbuilder246

Hi
For what it's worth I would say looking at your car it is a jhclassic's/deon body you have.Or I should say a mold from a shell from their mold. Classic replica's took a mold from a deon (formaly jhclassic') customer's car in return for completing his car.
Ian

Hi Ian
Thanks for the info, that confirms what I thought.
The date the kit was originally purchased and the fact that it was designed for a single rear engine/boot lid led me to believe it was one of, if not the first, bodies that Classic Replicas produced and that it was basically the Deon body.
It was later on that they changed the kit to feature the separate engine and boot lids.
I hope De Havilland will be at Stoneleigh this year so I can have a talk with them about engine/boot covers, glass package, seats, instruments, brightwork....!
Neil

massa · #30 4th February 2016, 17:04

hello neil, went and measured my car when I saw your figures to compare, my centre of wheel to centre of wheel is 2270, ground to centre of wheel 30, ground to sump 120, ground to top of engine 825, been over speed bumps no problems, mine is a 94 build number 73 of 200 I believe made, my plate in engine bay dgt 073 and year made 94, I considered a 2 piece lid but am staying with the one piece, the prototype 206,s according to my book where one piece, regards dave

NeilF355 · #31 5th February 2016, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by massa

hello neil, went and measured my car when I saw your figures to compare, my centre of wheel to centre of wheel is 2270, ground to centre of wheel 30, ground to sump 120, ground to top of engine 825, been over speed bumps no problems, mine is a 94 build number 73 of 200 I believe made, my plate in engine bay dgt 073 and year made 94,

Hi Dave
It's interesting to compare the figures, particularly the wheelbase difference. It looks like Classic Replicas have modified the chassis, I have a receipt indicating that the kit was originally purchased in 2002 and it details a chassis number of CR000100G/A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by massa

I considered a 2 piece lid but am staying with the one piece, the prototype 206,s according to my book where one piece.

That's something else I've learned, I think I need to read up on the history of the Dino!

Cheers
Neil

rossnzwpi · #32 6th February 2016, 03:24

Hi Neil, it looks like your engine sticks out an inch or maybe two at most. So maybe the easiest and most aesthetically pleasing would be to raise the whole engine cover and boot lid by extending the lip around the edge with a curved triangular fillet. Suitably radiused it might be the least obtrusive. If it is about an inch or two high at the rear windscreen edge it could reduce to zero on the boot edge.
The huge bulge that Deon had to accommodate Ford V6s doesn't look like it belongs on a Dino to my eyes.
Cheers
Ross

thecarbuilder246 · #33 6th February 2016, 08:51

Hi all

Further to my other reply I have a deon gt with the ford cosworth V6 engine fitted and I have the proper engine cover and boot lid with no bulge. It is a tight fit but I can tell you it can be done.
I lowered the engine by machining the engine mounts by 20mm as in my opinion deon had placed the ford engine a little to high.This resulted in the drive shafts being at a angle when the car sat on it's wheels.
By lowering the engine and box 20mm it still no lower than the lowest part of the chassis and meant the proper engine cover and boot lid could fit. The drive shafts now are at a better angle albeit still slightly angled down towards the wheels.

ian

NeilF355 · #34 6th February 2016, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossnzwpi

Hi Neil, it looks like your engine sticks out an inch or maybe two at most. So maybe the easiest and most aesthetically pleasing would be to raise the whole engine cover and boot lid by extending the lip around the edge with a curved triangular fillet. Suitably radiused it might be the least obtrusive.

Hi Ross
I was thinking along the same lines, maybe in combination with filling or lifting the base of the rear window and the base of the buttress around the engine cover to lessen the height difference.

Neil

thecarbuilder246 · #35 6th February 2016, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilF355

Hi Ross
I was thinking along the same lines, maybe in combination with filling or lifting the base of the rear window and the base of the buttress around the engine cover to lessen the height difference.

Neil

If it were me I'd look at other options. Once you start lifting panels and reshaping buttresses /filling and shaping etc the pure dino shape has gone then it will start to looked bodged!
Get an engine cover on and see what is required-you may be able to just reduce you inlet trumpets in height.
Ian

rossnzwpi · #36 7th February 2016, 05:01

Hi Ian, I agree with your idea of keeping to the original look of a Dino as much as possible. An Alfa V6 "should" fit based on the measurements I've heard. But if it needs as little as 20mm clearance then lowering the engine would probably be a good option. Just make sure the various angles created in drive shafts and cv joints are well within engineering tolerances. I wonder what those tolerances are? The real Dino 246 didn't have level driveshafts by the way, but the angle was fairly small.
Cheers
Ross

thecarbuilder246 · #37 7th February 2016, 11:28

Hi all

Photo to show the rear of my dino

thecarbuilder246 · #38 7th February 2016, 11:44

Hi again

another couple of rear shots of my dino to show proper dino split engine cover and boot lid.when I received my deon body I had no bonnet/ boot or engine cover but was lucky to come across a guy with all these panels and I was able to borrow them and take molds from and produce my own. Alas before any one gets in touch I no longer have the molds. A small out fit called Low Rider Cars had them based (can you guess?) on the same business park as deon and later classic replicas in somerset!!
ian

rossnzwpi · #39 7th February 2016, 20:10

Here's a picture of the KV6 engine in an MGTF modified subframe - its in a mid engine GTM Libra spider

http://forums.xpowerforums.com/showthread.php?t=50538

cheers
Ross

Drsquashdavid · #40 9th February 2016, 05:40

Hi Neil
I do still have the engine and luggage canopies. They were copies taken from a CR/Deon.
As said I ended up using the Mirabeau canopy but even then have had to modify to get the " hump" higher -- as per previous photo.
These did fit into my Deon Mirabeau lid cover ares fairly well.
Regards
Dave