sammio/ribble proper biz turnover to mike failed? - Page 2

Paul L · #21 2nd May 2015, 10:01

Micky1mo - Thanks for the update and I fully understand/support your decision to draw a line under the past & start again.

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Rene - I have a lot of sympathy for the fact you have paid a lot of money for a car that you can't use.

But I just can't see how Mike should be responsible for the quality of a turn-key build that Andy agreed to provide you.

Just like a possible future owner of my car could not hold Mike responsible for how I have built the kit Sammio supplied me.

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Nike55 - I completely accept you don't want to reply to any comments, so I did debate whether to write anything at all.

However, I like to think that I do my bit to try to keep this forum a positive place, despite being negative about the Cordite kit at times.

And I am trying to build a legal and safe care with honesty and integrity and all my best efforts are there for all to see.

Personally I've always tried to encourage detailed build threads, so that others can judge the quality of the build for themselves.

It is certainly clear to me that Swifty and Mac are building their Cordite MkIIs to a higher standard than I am building my MkI.

But this is the first "under construction" photo I could find of Rene's car.

Clearly there is no way of telling that all is not well underneath from that shot.

Similarly, this Miglia was featured on another thread and was just sold on ebay.

Apparently there is not a single build photo available, so what standard has it been build to?

But if amateur build blogs will lead to the end of the re-body rules as we know it, then maybe I have got the wrong idea all together.

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Note: I'm not trying to have a go at anyone and I guess I just don't know what the answer is.

Cheers, Paul.

8 Valve Ed · #22 2nd May 2015, 11:05

I agree that none of this personal grievance should be aired on this forum, it should be resolved (or not) directly with the people concerned.

While I accept it is of some benefit to the wider audience that we be aware of issues with manufacturers/suppliers, this has gone far beyond that and in my opinion is completely out of place, forums are not the place to resolve legal disputes.

Anybody dealing with a small business has to make up his own mind about the stability of that business, especially when relatively large sums are involved. Caviat emptor. Even Rolls Royce went bust.

Changing tack slightly I would be grateful if somebody would point me towards, or explain briefly the origins and potted history of these names, we have Cordite, Ribble, Sammio, Miglia and possibly Tribute? To me they are just words, I can't associate them with anything. We seem to have several Mike's and an Andy... Maybe others?

I understand that projects and businesses morph and change over time owing to circumstances but it would be nice to understand a little of the background to all this, there seems to be some antagonism involved somewhere.

As for making details of builds public, I have suffered in the past from being too open with what I have revealed about my builds, which tends to make me a bit guarded, on the other hand, Paul's openness is a credit to him. It has provided him with a very good record of his build, he has received a lot of guidance and help and may I say remote quality control? I think publishing one's work publicly helps to keep one's standards high.

I don't think bureaucrats sitting in VOSA will change regulations and legislation purely on the basis of what they MAY read here, they look at the larger picture. That said, we do need to keep standards as high as possible, especially on the structural welding front, which includes structural design in the body frame and seat belt mount area. We need to bear in mind that lives really do depend on the repairs and construction we do in "our sheds".

Rene · #23 2nd May 2015, 12:23

Champs to you all,
The serviceissue is important for you all when you sell...
Who could serve a costumer if he is not a selfbuilder???
In this case special, if you aquire a existing kitcarbiz and will start in professional kits- and kitcarsales, you cant that followup in the sentence, i build a car in my private garage and when have found a customer to pay for it, i give a shit for afterservice...
So if there some critical issus in the some claimcases in taking a biz over with customers,then it is a internal matter between the bizseller and bitbuyer,how to handle that..
But at customerbase keep people out of internal things and keep them happy and happy and happy with solutions.This is not a private seller...Otherwise you will not grow with your estimated biz.
I can not give any positiv recommondation to promote his service if you sell your car...
I my simple case, i requested a simple manually sanding of the frame and outriders, partial spotwelding and when the outriders not to weld, to change it. After this primer and black chassis coat. Yes you need for this a carlifter for a proper and fast work....
This was aggreed as Order based at frame pictures what i sent...
confirmed the shipping of the car was organisized and he canceled my order in qualityreason and difficulties with a other corditerepairorder. I habe no cordite and no pedalissus. You now why! Then i got a bullshitting information one week before the scheduled and confirmed shipping and aggreed order will be not followuped.

The other thing is the concept further development in experiance in existing buildings,legal registrationlaws and marketcompetition.
That's cardesign and productionoptimasion...

.

Rene · #24 2nd May 2015, 12:29

Champs to you all,
The serviceissue is important for you all when you sell...
Who could serve a costumer if he is not a selfbuilder???
In this case special, if you aquire a existing kitcarbiz and will start in in professional kits- and kitcarsales, you cant that followup in the sentence, i build a car in my private garage and when have found a customer to pay for it, i give a shit for afterservice...
So if there some critical issus in the some claimcases in taking a biz over with customers,then it is a internal matter between the bizseller and bitbuyer,how to handle that..
But at customerbase keep people out of internal things and keep them happy and happy and happy with solutions.This is not a private seller...Otherwise you will not grow with your estimated biz.
I can not give any positiv recommondation to promote his service if you sell your car...
I my simple case, i requested a simple manually sanding of the frame and outriders, partial spotwelding and when the outriders not to weld, to change it. After this primer and black chassis coat. Yes you need for this a carlifter for a proper and fast work....
This was aggreed as Order based at frame pictures what i sent...
confirmed the shipping of the car was organisized and he canceled my order in qualityreason and difficulties with a other corditerepairorder. I habe no cordite and no pedalissus. You know why! A steelbulkhead...Either if yes,a console to the steelchassis is the simple solution to overcome and keep poeple happy.without such turbolences.. Then i got a bullshitting information one week before the scheduled and confirmed shipping and aggreed order will be not followuped.

The other thing is the concept further development in experiance in existing buildings,legal registrationlaws and marketcompetition.
That's cardesign and productionoptimasion...

.

Scottie22 · #25 2nd May 2015, 13:45

As a total outsider, I think perhaps a line should be drawn under this issue, as it appears a little like self-harming, and I cannot see any good coming from it. This airing has not done the kit car image any good, and a damage limitation exercise might not be a bad idea.

EL PRIMER · #26 2nd May 2015, 14:16

Sammio - son of original creator is called Sam , middle name Owen , hence Sammy O

Cordite - Sammios were originally built in a unit on the site of an old Cordite factory at Holton Heath in Dorset

Miglia - a name suggested to the Miglia builders main man by the creator of Sammio's when he asked for suggestions of an alternative name to register his one off Sammio created from a Cordite body on a Herald chassis and stretched nose to accommodate a Rover V8 ( which was inspired by a one off build of a Sammio on a Spartan chassis for a customer in Essex - who incidentally sold it as an unfinished project to Miglia and it became the German Miglia )

Ribble - new name attached to the Sammio brand when it moved into premises next to the River Ribble in Lancashire .

Tribute - name chosen by Chris Welch for his creations as he was well aware his clever re-bodies were never going to be exact replicas of the cars they were emulating .

Rene · #27 2nd May 2015, 14:39

Sammio went to Ribble and now announced transfered to Mike ,he is continuing under the old name sammio.
Cordite -Navigator-Cordite.
But he will continue the biz with no service at all. With the same argumentation he will act by your bildings.. That is not what we need. May he build cars for his own, but not accepted by the market. May in ebay below materialcost possible.
So a bid time, think we find a solution to offer that with a professional alternative to inshure further development and scene support and car development also without him.

Viatron · #28 2nd May 2015, 16:05

Rene I have sent you a private message
Mac

Rene · #29 2nd May 2015, 19:59

Champs to clearify some reflections here..
Here is still a aggreed order canceled.
based at a strong promotion from Andy he is the best...
With a blue sky statement about the expected workload without any facts....In the same time i got offered a Sammio without a full restored frame with BMW engine ???. Is that a joke? I do not need a other engine? But may a restored ???
Again that is a blame for this community how the involved respective bizpartner together act and support...
That has to be changed and i am convinced it will change through marketbehavior and missing bizincome....

Mister Towed · #30 2nd May 2015, 20:47

on'tday eedfay the olltray...

Rene · #31 3rd May 2015, 05:43

Yes you are right. .
Champs lets summerize:
The bizhandover from Sammio over Ribble to Replica Rides hase failed.
In missing communications and cooperative behavior between the involved bizactors plus:
This has nothing to do with a Brandname...
Which is saying nothing...It has to do to understand the changes in the market, regulations and registration law restricted bottlenecks which he can't influence...Also not with tricky games to get rid of the aggreed royalty fees.. Its a simple companyname registration which not help up...
His behavior was driven only political with bullshitting arguments..

The topics to improve:
Very bad market- and commercial baseknowlage.
What is going on in the market?
What is the drivingforce?
What is the customerneed?
What are the minimum requirement?
What are the needed efforts?

Outcome:He spending money in restauration of given concepts which fail in commercial braketrough and positive turnover based at the ongoing marketchances...

If I am Owner and Investor, with this outcome I had him fired....

Paul L · #32 3rd May 2015, 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene

...If I am Owner and Investor...

Rene - This will be my last reply to you, as surely this is the point you are missing?

You are NOT the owner, so why get so wound up about how the owner is, or is not, running their company?

CarNoob · #33 3rd May 2015, 07:09

Just read this, my head hurts

Rene · #34 3rd May 2015, 07:19

Paul yes , the sammio has to get rid off the build on sheap crap image. Here is not helping up, when you building 30 years in the same behavior in more less private hobby.
See to reached effective prices for ready build cars....
The other thing is the further development by a visible End of Lifetime Circle. Paul some noticed about it?
If you miss it,you may can't drive the tomorrow builded rebodycar at public streets... (-;...

garyh · #35 3rd May 2015, 08:20

rene, because we have all become part of the brand, it's what ties us together. And it's been great!

Rene · #36 3rd May 2015, 08:36

Garyh absolutly right, seems to me it is actual blocked trough get rid royalty fees gambling as commercial solution as alternative to bring a better product...Garyh read the last from Andy open announced sales specification which is never build during the circumsdances in the wrong directions. Thats include a lot of know how as step one:
Improve the existing productrange...Whats here talking about mould qualities was none from the beginning. But the newbuildingconcept include step2....
Steps two was: change the base concept to better positioning of the product in the market as key for better sales performance and future requirements. This was including the marketdevelopment of the basecars as costinfluencer plus a big step foreward in a other chassis/drivingtrain,engine concept plus more economical buildingtechnics...

Rene · #37 3rd May 2015, 09:51

So as summerize:
every body can count:
Minimum requirements for turn key buildet cars:
-refurnished/restored or new build chassis.
-new bakes and dampers
-overholed suspension drivetrain
-overholed engine and gear
-Carbody kit plus interior
-Instrumention
-wheels and tires
-assambling
If you will inshure against customerclaims
and your positive income to exist..
Do you think its possible against a archieved average pricerange in the market between £4000 and £ 4800???For the oversees you take in concideration the exchangerate,finance the shipping,the afterwork for registration plus registrationcosts...
That the main different against a funny hobby with sale few years later to finance the new project...

reneanglia · #38 3rd May 2015, 09:58

Rene you are full of greeve about Mike,you can't expect Mike to repair Andy's faults.
You made a buisiness deal with Andy,not with Mike.
Andy delivered you a crappy build car with a rotten chassis,did'nt you inspect it before you payed him?
As i look at the picture Paul posted i should have my thoughts about the rust on the chassis and have asked Andy to show that the chassis has been restored.
At the time you thought you had a buisiness opportunity to make money on the ribble brand selling turn-key cars in Germany,now it turns out the car failed TUV you can't make money selling these cars and the Ribble company gone bust.
So you lost money........well,thats a buisiness risk.
Mike took over some crappy moulds,has done some repairs on cars he did not build but enough is enough.
Mike has no responsabilaty of the crap Andy has sold,he is developing this on his own way and i am sure he will succeed in this with or without your useless comments.
Perhaps i will order a Sammio in the future,i know i buy a GRP shell which is build on a 40 year old car and see it is my responsabilaty to inspect the work that's been done,or do it myself.
So take your loss as a man,repair your crappy chassis yourself and send the bill to Andy and stop moaning about Mike.
I am sure all the Sammio enthousiasts here will support Mike in his effort to make the Sammio brand a solid company and and are not waiting your rants.
René(the other René,not from Germany but Holland)

Rene · #39 3rd May 2015, 10:05

I blame not mike for Andys fouls, thats bullshitting.
I lost only time for nothing...
Read carfully what i wrote....

JG · #40 3rd May 2015, 10:16

Rene

It's quite clear that Mike is not responsible for the issues you have with what you bought from Andy. Your contract is with Andy/Ribble and whilst Mike has done what he can, he is not responsible for every fault of the Ribble company.

Whilst I can understand your need to vent, your financial and contractual issues are not going to be resolved on this forum, you need to follow the correct legal channels, thus continuing to vent here is going to do nothing but get you wound up.

I'm going to close this thread as I see no point in it continuing.

John