How much does GRP bodywork cost

[Lucky@LeMans]

Having a look around at various suppliers of finished GRP products and came across these guys http://honeybournemouldings.co.uk/frontends.html .

Just take a look at prices for complete front ends for a whole host of cars. A full ready to go front end for way under £500 ( plus VAT ).

So double that up for a rear end and a bit extra for a couple of door skins and that would end around the
£1200 mark ( plus VAT ).

Sorry Chris but your prices are running away for the 250 SWB cars.

[Paul L]

Lucky - I don't think you are comparing apples with apples.

As how can taking a mould from an existing panel/car be compared to developing the SWB 250 kit for a Z3?

How many hours do you estimate went into the development of Tribute's SWB 250?

How much you think those hours should be worth?

And that is before you add in extra costs for materials and overheads like power, lighting, etc.

How many kits should the development costs be spread over?

Or do you really believe that the cost Tribute charges should only cover the cost of the fibreglass used in each kit?

If you are not happy with Tribute's products, or prices, then don't buy them.

But if you want to start quoting numbers, then at least add up all the costs involved.

Cheers, Paul.

[Lucky@LeMans]

I'm sure the likes of Tribute and Honeybourne Mouldings have similar "costs". It has been said before ( not by me ), that Tribute is basically two blokes in a shed so their "costs" should be low.

I can appreciate the work involved in development too but no more than their other products which come in with a considerably lower price tag.

When 20% VAT is added that makes the 250 SWB a shade under £6000 and £4800 for the Kalifornia. Is it just me or is that a little high for a set of GRP panels ?

I won't mention the quality aspect again as we would be covering old ground but we all know how much prep work needs to be done before paint on these kits.

[WorldClassAccident]

E Type Bonnet Series I, II + V12 £900.00
Now lets add similar costs for the interior of the engine bay, probably more due to the complex shape required.
E Type Bonnet Headlamp Bucket ea £45.00
E Type S1 only Lenses, pair £85.00
E Type Gearbox Tunnel £48.00
Rear wing - Rover 3lt £112.00 x2
doors ??
boot?
boot inner?
...
...

I reckon you are well on your way to £6K before you have all the bits you need.

Just because the panels are big doesn't make them the expensive ones.

Give them a ring and let me know how much they want to do you and entire 250SWB and then modify all the panels to fit a BMW. They do say if our car is not listed then call them...

[Lucky@LeMans]

Paul L ;

Regards development costs , lets say 1000 hours. If Chris was paying himself £40/ hour that would be £40,000 in labour. If that was spread over the sale of 100 kits that would equate to £400/ kit sold. I don't know how many SWB's have been sold to date but it must be quite a big number now. I seem to recall that the Kalifornia went from being an idea to a finished prototype in two weeks, we know Chris works fast .

[Barber]

Start from the other end. A workshop with utilities will cost around £10k pa at least. Average mechanic rates (used as an example) is just over £30k, add on 20% for NI etc so it rounds up to £36k. With two people and a workshop, you are at £82k overheads. The threshold for registering for VAT is £83k. So just making a living, as they have just had to register.

So not big volumes involved, and going down the price curve isn't going to dredge up scores of interested customers every year at a lower price. If lower prices means going bust (as so many kit manufacturers do), I'd rather pay a higher price and have the supplier in the market. Like I said, the pricing doesn't look unreasonable to me.

[Jaguartvr]

If the kits are too cheap you get serial builders knocking out poor quality cars which although might make them a profit but will only bring down the price of cars that have had a lot of time and money spent on them.

[redratbike]

How does this post help anyone?

if you have a beef ring Chris .

if you don't go build your own kit and sell it to us cheaper

[lancelot link]

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr

If the kits are too cheap you get serial builders knocking out poor quality cars which although might make them a profit but will only bring down the price of cars that have had a lot of time and money spent on them.

That was kind of what happened with the S*mmio range ... they ended up with a cheap image that can damage the better built examples .....probably why there is no mention of the name in the LANCIA D24 EVOCATION advert currently running on a well known auction site .....And I totally get that .....

Selling kits too cheaply and not making a profit damaged the product and business quite seriously too ....

So... products do need to be sold at a fair price and work carried out needs a fair return too .....how you calculate what that is in an industry with small operatives that charges you anything from £35-75 p.h. to do service work , clutches , brakes etc. which is relatively basic stuff compared to some of the work carried out in the alternative car industry ....I don't know ...

[IanA]

Anyone can take a splash mould and turn out a reasonable facsimile of a panel.
However, Chris and Dan took a set of plywood formers, adapted them to suit the Z3 wheelbase and track and then sculpted a properly proportioned body that forms the basis for some rather good looking cars.

[Welshkiwi]

Originally Posted by IanA

Anyone can take a splash mould and turn out a reasonable facsimile of a panel.
However, Chris and Dan took a set of plywood formers, adapted them to suit the Z3 wheelbase and track and then sculpted a properly proportioned body that forms the basis for some rather good looking cars.

I totally agree - There are always cheap options/cheap builders, cars that people are just not interested in because of fit, finish or other factors, such as just so damn fugly because of lack of time, interest or commercials take over. We are all in this game for one thing, the love of cars, the build and the fine-tuning of the product. I know I am newish to the forum, but have been around the kit industry long enough to know that we all build differently, spec differently and finish differently. What is one persons "beauty" is anothers "beast". I for one am impressed what Chris and Dan are putting out, the ability of some very talented guys to take their dreams and sweat and turn it into something we covet.

Lets not squibble about cost. If it is too much, don't do it. If is almost too much but the love of what we do is burning enough......You'll do it whatever the cost. I for one am excited about being part of this journey and I believe Chris is well placed to get me there. Certainly don't want the manufacturer falling down during the process!

[WorldClassAccident]

$75 million cake sets price record - CNBC.com

Sometimes the whole is more than the sum of the parts

[Barber]

For that, I would expect those candles that will not blow out.

[WorldClassAccident]

I would expect someone else there to blow them out for me and another person to re-light them on demand

[couerdelion]

Pricing is a lot more complex than how much does it cost you to make the product and how much are your competitors charging for the product.

I've no idea why Tribute charges they do but there are numerous articles on pricing objectives and I could make an objective stab at it.

The donor isn't a never ending supply. It will, and is, becoming more scarce and prices are rising. That in turn will lead to less demand for the kit.

They've a limited time to make money out of the venture before they will have to reinvest in research and development to produce a kit based on a newer donor.

Brexit is causing the strength of the pound to drop and increases the potential for export so could lead to an increase in foreign sales. Pricing can be used to both generate sales but also to prevent unwanted growth.

No matter, the strategy pricing influences the number of customers you are able to attract. Too cheap and there's an inferred quality problem - too expensive and people just cant afford it. Judging by the wait lists it looks like they have the pricing ok.

[Lucky@LeMans]

I would think the Z3 will be around for at least the next few years as a viable donor, there are still plenty on the second hand market and I can't see that changing any time soon.
I've been waiting for the 275 convertible to be launched by Tribute / Old No7 but that project seems to be dead in the water.
I think that whilst Tribute continue to profit from the sales of 250 SWB's they have little incentive to bring anything new to the table. I would think they will be banging them out for as long as there is a demand. If they get two kits out a week that's a nice little earner even after "costs".
For me the price of the kits has got to the point where I don't think I would want to place an order anyway. The basic kit price is just the start and the final price with a decent , lasting paint finish could easily double that initial investment ,+ donor car, + wheels / tyres, + interior upgrades etc etc.
All in all the Tribute 250's can be built up to make a stunning car but its all getting out of control regards build cost.

[Jaguartvr]

But with the kits being built to good standards they seem be commanding higher prices.

I don't think (I may be wrong) that the 250GTO kits were made to such a high standard and needed a lot of work to prepare them for painting. A lot seem to get finished but left unpainted which hurts the resale value.

[Barber]

Historically, kits cost more to build than they sell for. There is a good quality Minari currently available for £4,500. Seven replicas go for as low as £2,000. You pay your money and take your choice.

[WorldClassAccident]

For me the price of the kits has got to the point where I don't think I would want to place an order anyway.

Should have got in early while they were still cheap!!

:-)

There is always a fine balance between cost and value. I want a real Masterati and I KNOW they don't cost more that 10 times the price of a fiat panda to produce (~115,000 vs ~11,000) but the bastards won't cut their price.

On that note, check out the cost of an OEM Ferrari Testarossa wing mirror glass and then compare it to a Fiat 132 wing mirror glass. Same factory part number but strangely different prices

[Lucky@LeMans]

Nick, you're right I should have got in early and purchased a 250 SWB. That would have saved me about £2000 on todays price.

I was really hanging in there for a 275 convertible kit but like I said that seems dead in the water. When I spoke with Dan ( Old No7 ) at Stoneliegh this year there was zero commitment regards a date for production or otherwise. He simply wasn't saying much at all which I thought was strange. Maybe they were simply letting the dust settle following Kidge's experience. Maybe Old No7 will start a fresh with a whole new pricing structure but who knows !