Are you madabout kit cars      
 "We've Got Kit Cars Covered" Information about Madabout-Kitcars.com Contact Madabout-Kitcars.com         Home of UK kit cars - madabout-kitcars.com Various kit car write ups All the latest kit car news Kit car related and general discussion

Search
Manufacturers
Kit Cars
Kit Car Data sheets
Picture Gallery
SVA Knowledgebase
Clubs & Communities
Build cost estimator
Kit cars for sale
Knowledge Base 
KitcarUSA.com
Classic-Kitcars.com
 

Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds

Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds For Vintage and Classic era kit cars. Post your build reports, problems and progress here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 8th September 2012, 08:30
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default Royale Sabre - Take two!

OK, so this is the build log of my plan to rebuild this forlorn Royale Sabre to the glory it deserves.

OK, so here it is.... by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The history is a little sketchy but the chassis was made in September 1994 by the Royale Motor Company. It is a John Barlow design and according to the A-Z of Kit Cars by Steve Hole, the Sabre was launched in March 1994 and I appear to have chassis number 14, so quite an early example.

The donor car was a 1992 Ford Sierra Sapphire GLSi but the original engine was frost damaged and has been removed before I got the car. It seems to have been built to a high standard but has not been stored in the dry, so has badly deteriorated in places, but nothing that can't be addressed.

The first job was to give the exterior a through clean up to get rid of the last 10 years of muck and dirt.


Washed by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Rear View by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The next job was to empty and sort out stuff in the boot.


Boot full of rubbish by marlinpeter, on Flickr

This left me with a sack full of mouldy rubbish, a box of scrap metal and some very useful bits including the original grill, front bumpers and a 'Royale' emblem.


Good stuff by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The next job was to strip out the seats and all the mouldy carpets which have been stored as templates for later reference.


Carpets by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Carpets and seats stripped out by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I have also removed and stored the hood cover (which incidental stores neatly behind the seats when not in use.)


Hood cover and front rail removed by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The next job is to remove the seat belts, hood frame, lights and then start on removing the loom. (Unless I find something more interesting to do!)

...peter

Last edited by peterux; 17th October 2016 at 20:23.. Reason: fixed pic link
Reply With Quote
Available from eBay
  #2  
Old 8th September 2012, 09:49
JG's Avatar
JG JG is offline
Senior Member
Big Cheese
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,054
JG has disabled reputation
Default

I say it once and I'll say it again....ahem, great kit, almost production quality moldings. Don't suppose you know of other unfinished kits available at reasonable cost do you?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10th September 2012, 09:41
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post

The next job is to remove the seat belts, hood frame, lights and then start on removing the loom. (Unless I find something more interesting to do!)

...peter
Update on the above plan....

Seat belts removed......


Hood frame and rear brace by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The upright in this shot is welded to the chassis. The diagonal brace takes the seat belt upper mounting and the hood frame. All these parts have some surface rust that will need to be removed and the parts repainted.

That rear diagonal brace is mounted beneath the rear wing so I had to remove the rear wheels which gave me the chance to have a look around underneath


Rear brakes and suspension by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The brake calipers were clearly refurbished back in 1995 but now need attention.

While I had the car jacked up I took off the rear bumper and fog/reverse lights. The lights were just for show as there was no wires?


Rear bumper and lights by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I then moved on to removing the loom.....


Wiring gone! by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I've removed all the wiring up to the engine bay.

Taking a kitcar apart is a lot quicker than building one!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11th September 2012, 22:23
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,457
Patrick is on a distinguished road
Default

You guys are getting me looking at kits again looks like your having fun
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12th September 2012, 08:30
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
You guys are getting me looking at kits again looks like your having fun
Be careful, it can be addictive!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12th September 2012, 08:58
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

A bespoke molded scutle covering the wiper motor and heater fan, etc.


Scuttle cover by marlinpeter, on Flickr

And 15 years of spiders and webs......



De-wiring by marlinpeter, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13th September 2012, 21:41
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

OK, this weeks progress report......(not all weeks will show this much action)

I have now removed all the loom and old Ford engine management wiring.


Empty engine bay by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I now have a completely empty engine bay but before further dismantling of the body, I wanted to do some 'Proof of Concept' tests to see if a BMW M52 engine will fit

First job was to remove a wing as lifting heavy engine parts over the wing hurts my back and I'm too short to reach into the engine bay.

Each wing is held on with no less than 18 M6 bolts! The wing is huge.


Wing removal by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I have a BMW M52 engine all in pieces (from a previous abandoned project) so fitting it was done in stages.

First, I placed the sump on a 20mm thick piece of wood on the chassi cross member and butted up to the old Ford gearbox.


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

So far so good, the sump cleared the cross member without any issue.

Next, I placed the block (without crankshaft and pistons, conrods, etc) on top of the sump. After a while shifting it around I was able to get a couple of sump bolts in to hold in place.
First issue is that the crankshaft doesn't align with the gearbox input shaft. I need a BMW gearbox to see if this is a real issue. If it is, I will need to raise and possibly angle the gearbox and engine down at the back.
I think some major surgery to the body tub and tunnel will be required to fit the BMW gearbox but it is GRP and I don't think the gearbox tunnel is structural.


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

(Having an engine with no crank really helps you to see what is going on )

Next up was the cylinder head.......which doesn't fit as it hits the brake servo.


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

An MBM dual diaphragm servo might solve this problem.


Also, the front of the engine fouls the cross member between the front suspension struts.


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I need to assemble a bit more engine and look at the options for moving or modifying this part of the chassis.


I then couldn't resist trying out the inlet manifold..........and I couldn't see any immediate problems.


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Bearing in mind this is just proof of concept and all just balancing together and the head is not in the correct position, I think it looks pretty good!!


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

It also seems to clear the bonnets.


BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Lots to do and I do really need to get a BMW gearbox to see what other issues I may have.

If you can see any other issues let me know ....

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16th September 2012, 01:00
Sorton Sorton is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N. Dorset
Posts: 85
Sorton is on a distinguished road
Default

Very interested in your new project, Peter. I have always liked the look of the Sabre and wonder if you have seen this site

http://www.automotivecreation.com/royalesabre.htm

I assume ACL took over the kit but have no idea if they are still going. If they are they may have made some progress on the use of BMW parts.

Sorton
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16th September 2012, 09:46
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorton View Post
Very interested in your new project, Peter. I have always liked the look of the Sabre and wonder if you have seen this site

http://www.automotivecreation.com/royalesabre.htm

I assume ACL took over the kit but have no idea if they are still going. If they are they may have made some progress on the use of BMW parts.

Sorton
Hi Sorton,
thanks for your positive comments. Like you, my wife and I have often commented on how stylish these cars look.

Yes, I am aware of the new company who re-launched the Royale Sabre at Stoneliegh back in May of this year (2012). I had a quick look at their demonstrator at that show (with a Ford Zetec Engine), but to be honest was not seriously considering it as an option at that time.


Stonleigh National Kitcar Show - 2012 by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Stonleigh National Kitcar Show - 2012 by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The company is run by a guy called Malcolm Badger ( a member of the ROC, who obtained the rights to the Sabre in 2011 ) but I've not yet spoken to Malcolm about my project. I'm not aware if they have sold any new kits yet and their website has not been updated with any new info since just after the Stoneliegh show. I was hoping to take a closer look at Donnington but they didn't exhibit at that show.

.....peter

P.S. their car was looking a lot nicer than mine
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20th September 2012, 14:42
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

OK, so here's a quick update on progress down at the lockup....

I started this week by removing the dashboard surround so I could see better around the inside of the gearbox tunnel, etc.


Dashboard surround removed by marlinpeter, on Flickr

It's a once piece moulding held on by two brackets at each side plus this rather nicely engineered central bracket.


Dashboard central bracket by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I then removed the front suspension/chassis brace which, to me, looks more like a somewhere to hang the radiator.


Front Brace - removed by marlinpeter, on Flickr

According to the build manual it is to support the front suspension uprights but since they are 1.5 x 2.5 inch steel uprights, I don't think the brace does a lot.


Front Upright by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I also removed the brake master cylinder and servo, but you've all seen one of those so i'll skip the picture.

This then allowed me to have another go at positioning the engine, now all bolted together again but it's still fouling on the old gearbox so not ideal.

There is not much space for the servo so i'll either have to position the servo on the other side of the engine (like BMW do on the e30) or mount the engine rotated a few degrees in the clockwise direction when looking from the front.


Engine POC-II by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Can anyone see a drawback of mounting the engine 'more vertical' than BMW intended? The oil in the sump runs from the front to the back sump so I can't see a problem. The gearbox will also be rotated slightly and the gear stick will stick up a few degrees to the left of central.
Any thoughts?

In other news, one of the ROC members came up trumps with the wiring loom description which matches perfectly my loom. The loom is in good condition and will be cleaned up and re-used saving me a few hundred quid or hours of time

I next need to check the position of the exhaust manifolds and pipe exit but then I think I've probably gone as far as I can with the engine fit POC so I think it'll be more dismantling next week.


...peter

(More pictures and comments on Flickr.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/peters-bmwmarlin/ )
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20th September 2012, 20:09
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,775
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Can anyone see a drawback of mounting the engine 'more vertical' than BMW intended? The oil in the sump runs from the front to the back sump so I can't see a problem. The gearbox will also be rotated slightly and the gear stick will stick up a few degrees to the left of central.
Any thoughts?
It will be a bit taller. And, if my geometry still works, there will be a bit less oil in the sump. But I guess a few degrees won't make a lot of difference.

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 21st September 2012, 08:35
Mike Mike is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 926
Mike is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
It will be a bit taller. And, if my geometry still works, there will be a bit less oil in the sump. But I guess a few degrees won't make a lot of difference.

Robin
Where will the oil have gone Robin..................?

It may affect the dip stick reading marginally?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21st September 2012, 08:59
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post

It may affect the dip stick reading marginally?
I assumed that is what Robin meant. I need to check which side the oil pick-up is in the sump and maybe 're-calibrate' the dip stick a bit. I think the rest of the oil circulating is generally pumped under pressure so can't see it making much difference. I guess the offset gearstick might look or feel a bit strange?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25th September 2012, 22:18
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
I next need to check the position of the exhaust manifolds and pipe exit but then I think I've probably gone as far as I can with the engine fit POC so I think it'll be more dismantling next week.
Week 5 progress report......

Well, I've checked the exhaust manifold and there is no issue, except that my trusty Fuji camera, that I've used since 2003, finally died so I didn't get a picture.

I have also dismantled, cleaned and painted the hood frame. This is now all wrapped up and stored away for the future.


Hood Frame by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I've also cleaned up and labelled the loom.


Wiring loom by marlinpeter, on Flickr

So back to the great dismantling.....

I have removed the drivers door to help access other parts to be removed.


Drivers door off by marlinpeter, on Flickr

You can see in the picture above that I have now removed the heater and windscreen wiper and wheel boxes, etc.

I have also removed the steering wheel and column.....


Steering column removed by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Next, I need to clean up and paint the steering column which has a lot of superficial rust.
I am also going to try to remove the windscreen glass. The screen is BS Kite Marked but not European Type 43 R marked. I believe the IVA has an exemption in place to April 2013 to allow BS marked glass. If this is extended then I will refit the screen glass. If not, I will use the old glass as a template to get a new one made up with the appropriate 'E' mark.

I also need to organise some more storage space as I'm running out of space for storing the body parts removed.

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 3rd October 2012, 10:08
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Week 6 update...........

As mentioned in last weeks update, I have now removed the windscreen.


Windscreen out by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I used a variety of knives, blades and Unibond silicone dissolver.


Windscreen marking by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The front windscreen is BS marked but not ECE marked. I believe this is currently allowed as an exemption at the IVA test, but may not be when I get there. The screen is showing some early signs of de-lamination in one corner, so may have to be replaced anyhow.

I had decided to replace the heater matrix with a new one as I didn't want a 20 year old clogged up matrix as part of the cooling system. (Another ebay bargain)

Heater matrix by marlinpeter, on Flickr

It was a good job I'd bought a new matrix as the old was frost damaged.


Heater matrix by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I'm also working on a solution the clutch and brake pedal box. The Sierra is a cable clutch so I need to find a solution for a hydralic clutch master cylinder and pedal box. Whilst searching for an aftermarket peadl box (which seem to start at about 180!!) I came across one of these....


BMW pedal box by marlinpeter, on Flickr

It's from a e46 BMW and is extremely well designed and manufactured.

I've done some initial trials and it's looking good......


Pedal box trial by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Pedal box trial by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Here you can see how the brake pedal lines up with the servo input rod. I need to find a suitable threaded eye or rod end to join it together. I also need to notch the pedal box frame to get to all of the servo nuts.

This will be my focus for the coming weeks....

...peter

(more pictures and details if you want on my Flickr site)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 3rd October 2012, 19:21
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 287
denniswpearce is on a distinguished road
Default

So your using the same dual servo unit that is on the Sportster, that what it looks like anyway. Is this to save space as from previous pics the BMW engine seemed to fit in with the existing servo in place ?

Nice car, love it
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 3rd October 2012, 21:14
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by denniswpearce View Post
So your using the same dual servo unit that is on the Sportster, that what it looks like anyway. Is this to save space as from previous pics the BMW engine seemed to fit in with the existing servo in place ?

Nice car, love it
Hi Dennis,
glad you like the Sabre and I hope you find my rebuild story entertaining.

Yes, that's an MBM dual diaphragm servo in the picture.
Firstly, I needed to get a new Servo as I wouldn't trust a 20 year old servo that's probably corroded or perished internally.
Secondly, if I do go for the BMW M50 engine there isn't enough space for a standard Ford Servo.
It's not so easy to see in the photo's but in the shot below the servo is preventing the engine and cylinder head sitting correctly.

BMW 328i POC by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I'm hoping that the MBM servo will just give me enough space whilst maintaining good performance.
The MBM servo in the picture is in fact just an empty casing that Mike has lent me for the trails.
I also have another brand new unit safely wrapped up in its packaging.

I need to get the servo mounted in its final position before doing the final checks on the engine fitting.

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10th October 2012, 09:57
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Week 7, weekly progress report ...........

Lots of bits and pieces this week....

Firstly, I've finished renovating the Sierra heater box. The flaps have been de-rusted, painted and relined with foam.


Heater box by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I've also acquired from eBay a complete control unit in perfect condition. The Sabre dashboard is designed to take this mechanism, so now I have a fully complete and functional heater and de-mister unit.


Heater Control by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I'm currently working on connecting the Servo to the brake pedal and have bought theses parts to help.


Servo Linkage by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I've also managed to garb a bargain M52 gearbox from a scrapyard in Stevenage. Here it is in the cleaning tank.


Gearbox by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I managed to get the guys to include the gear selector, stick and chassis mounting bracket The gearbox will be used for more proof of concept work before committing to a new engine.

This weeks plan is to finish cleaning up the gearbox and fettling the pedal box.....

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10th October 2012, 10:07
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,457
Patrick is on a distinguished road
Default

Nice, 5 speed ZF ?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10th October 2012, 13:48
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,883
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Nice, 5 speed ZF ?
Nah, just a bog standard Getrag, but still nice.
I've got it mainly for checking its physical size in the Sabre, but may keep it depending on which engine I get. It came of an e36 320i which had reportedly only done 74K miles so should be good for a few more miles
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 14:17.

copyright madabout-kitcars.com 2000-2020
terms and conditions | privacy policy