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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #541  
Old 18th February 2012, 13:08
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Yay! another happy rabbit in the warren!

Glad it's all working as it should - As for rears locking up before the fronts, the first time I locked the wheels with the test servo I thought that might have been the case - however, with further testing with my installed servo, the fronts definitely lock before the rears. I saw tyre smoke!
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  #542  
Old 18th February 2012, 15:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Thanks to everyone who considered this potential risk and replied with their views and suggestions above.
I'm still doing some background investigation and I will post an update if I can get anything more definitive.

...peter
I got me a copy of the 'well known' workshop manual for the Ford Sierra 1982-1993. (Cost me £2.96 inc. post!).

It has a very comprehensive braking system with full description and types. The good news is that there is not any mention of the dreaded 'Residual Pressure Valve'.
The exploded diagram and overhaul section of the master cylinder is straightforward and shows no sign of any RPV either.


Sierra Brake master by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I am now confident that there is no issue with using the 1982-88 Sierra master cylinder on cars with either drum or disk rear brakes.

...peter
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  #543  
Old 18th February 2012, 21:07
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cool, glad to hear that peter, The thought of moving on to test M/C number 4 was not fitting in well with my list of other bits to buy
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  #544  
Old 19th February 2012, 10:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denniswpearce View Post

Today is a crap day weather wise so will have to wait for some dry weather to try again.

.
Hi Dennis,
good to see you got your brakes sorted.

Nice weather today for a good test blast??

...peter
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  #545  
Old 19th February 2012, 15:08
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Sorry to throw a spanner in the works. But before I do let me say I have a cabrio with standard sierra brakes disc/drum setup but without the "deceleration sensitive valve" and I can categorically state that the fronts lock up first on a dry road.

Not withstanding that: the Hayes manual ISBN 1 85960 090 5 "Ford Sierra 1982 to 1993" states in the intro to the braking system (Section 10.1)

"A deceleration sensitive valve on Saloon, Hatchback and Estate Models not fitted with ABS ... is incorporated into th rear brake circuit. The Valve regulates the pressure applied to the rear brakes hydraulic circuit and reduces the possibility of the rear wheels locking under heavy braking"

Section 10.23 of the same manual discribes the removal/refitting but does not detail any deassembly.

So I'm afraid Peter is incorrect in stating Haynes does not mention the dreaded valvle.

BUT it seems in the light of various tests the thing doesn seem to matter one jot.

Sorry to seem like a barrack room lawer.
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  #546  
Old 19th February 2012, 16:58
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
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Hi Peter,

Yes, you are right it was a good day for a blast, so I did.

I do like the new brakes, have almost forgotten how much pressure I had to use before, the pedal has so much more feel to it, longer travel than before but its better.

The wheels do lock up and the front just locks before the rear does, there is a light pull to the offside which should be correctable and I must look at that. Only did it twice as tyres are an expensive replacement. Its alright for the top gear boys to burn rubber, someone else is paying for the tyres.

Those of you yet to replace your servo,s will not regret it.
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  #547  
Old 19th February 2012, 18:00
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Completed mine today. Much the same results as everyone else. Easy to lock brakes now (albeit I only tried at 20mph as I was driving down the cul-de-sac where I live).

Brake pedal travel is longer but I suspect some of it could be adjusted out. I think there is probably an inbuilt "gap" in the servo before it does anything - unlike the Metro.

No more to say really than has already been said. One surprise I had though. When I removed the BMW MC I found that it too has 3 ports with one of them being plugged by the manufacturer. That gives me more confidence that doing the same on the Ford MC is fine.

I will post up a couple of pictures tomorrow.

Robin
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  #548  
Old 19th February 2012, 19:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cussen View Post
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works. But before I do let me say I have a cabrio with standard sierra brakes disc/drum setup but without the "deceleration sensitive valve" and I can categorically state that the fronts lock up first on a dry road.

Not withstanding that: the Hayes manual ISBN 1 85960 090 5 "Ford Sierra 1982 to 1993" states in the intro to the braking system (Section 10.1)

"A deceleration sensitive valve on Saloon, Hatchback and Estate Models not fitted with ABS ... is incorporated into th rear brake circuit. The Valve regulates the pressure applied to the rear brakes hydraulic circuit and reduces the possibility of the rear wheels locking under heavy braking"

Section 10.23 of the same manual discribes the removal/refitting but does not detail any deassembly.

So I'm afraid Peter is incorrect in stating Haynes does not mention the dreaded valvle.

BUT it seems in the light of various tests the thing doesn seem to matter one jot.

Sorry to seem like a barrack room lawer.
No Chris, I'm sorry but you seem to have misunderstood my original concern.

I was concerned about a Residual Pressure Valve that is fitted to some brake master cylinders designed for rear drum brakes.

I am fully aware of deceleration sensitive valves and/or Load apportioning valves used to regulate the amount of pressure applied to the rear brakes. These are fitted to most cars including the Sierra and BMW donors. These are desirable and most of the recently built BMW Sportsters have the BMW valve fitted to pass the SVA/IVA tests.
For the avoidance of any doubt to anyone else, DO NOT REMOVE these valves.

My concern was about an inbuilt Residual Pressure Valves (RPV) which have been reported as causing a problem when used with rear disk brakes.

It seems that the Sierra M/C doesn't have an RPV, so it was a non issue.

I hope that is clear now?
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  #549  
Old 20th February 2012, 07:39
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OK I see the difference.
However neither mashtun nor I have fitted the 'deceleration valve' and neither of us have rear wheel lock up problems.
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  #550  
Old 20th February 2012, 08:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cussen View Post
OK I see the difference.
However neither mashtun nor I have fitted the 'deceleration valve' and neither of us have rear wheel lock up problems.
Sorry Chris, I can't answer that one!
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  #551  
Old 20th February 2012, 10:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
I will post up a couple of pictures tomorrow.
Robin
And here they are....





The fit is so good it looks like it was made especially for the Sportster. Well done (again) all those that were involved with the selection and design of the bits!

Robin
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  #552  
Old 20th February 2012, 20:16
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Quote:
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Hi Mike, if you don't mind, it could come in very handy. Like you say, I think more like 4 right angles will be needed if I don't want a vacuum hose draped right across the middle of the engine.

thanks
Ian
Ok
I'll post it off tomorrow.
Mike
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  #553  
Old 20th February 2012, 21:45
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Default Yet another very happy bunny!

Well, after a number of delays and a couple of maintanance repairs on the way, my servo is finally in and the car driven today at last. WOW! I now have the brakes that I thought I should have had all along! I have a 23mm dia master cylinder but, much the same as other’s posts, braking is progressive and the car really feels as though it is going to stop. Pedal travel is now longer but the effort required is much reduced and stopping distance seems unbelievably short. Even with heavy braking there is no sign of any tendency to lock up unexpectedly. A slight pull to one side means a bit more bleeding is required before attempting a full “lock up the wheels” test. I also want to see how the braking behaves on a wet surface as I suspect everyone so far has tried the servo out on dry roads?

So a really big thank you to Mike and Jason for making this upgrade possible and for the benefit of so many owners too. Peter.
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  #554  
Old 21st February 2012, 17:45
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
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Congratulations Robin and Pete,

Its good to have nice brakes isn't it ?

Dennis
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  #555  
Old 25th February 2012, 15:43
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Default 7" servo

Have just put car on rolling road , Its registering 75% efficiency, a good car would expect to be around 60% ,the fail is about 48% and my sportster was 50%+ at last MOT
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  #556  
Old 25th February 2012, 16:39
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
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So you are one happy bunny as well. Congrats.
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  #557  
Old 6th March 2012, 17:13
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Default Pitstop Follow Up

Dave Cunnington - the MOC editor is short of material for the Pitstop this month, so I have penned a short follow up to the Dual 7" Servo article we began in the last issue, reflecting on the success enjoyed by those who have compared the "before and after" experience.
If anyone has any good photos of the kit fitted in your car, I am sure Dave would be pleased to receive it to go along with the article.
regards
Mike
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  #558  
Old 8th March 2012, 22:32
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Default Anyone else interested in one of the Dual Servos

I've had a couple of guys express an interest in a Dual 7" servo following the last project. Duksville still do not have any in stock, so I was wondering if there are a few more interested in one of these units, and shipping another half dozen units from MBM again?

Any one interested, or are we all done?
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  #559  
Old 9th March 2012, 15:43
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Mike,

What happened to "never again"!....

John
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  #560  
Old 1st April 2012, 21:38
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Well - car passed the (first) MOT fine on Saturday with the new brakes. Rather startling to see how much the front suspension now flexes given that the brakes have some serious stopping power.

Went for the first long drive today and you rapidly get used to not having to book braking in advance....

Robin
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