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Old 24th August 2019, 17:17
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
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Colin - It is all good here.

I've just be out for a drive in my car with the sun shining and this is the life.

I got the usual round of thumbs up from other drivers, waves from small children, photos being taken, etc.

I am sure that you spread even more joy when out and about in your car.

Enjoy, Paul.
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Old 25th August 2019, 07:26
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Mister Towed Mister Towed is offline
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Originally Posted by micky1mo View Post
Just to add a little.

In years passed I rode pre65 trials motorcycles which had to be "road legal" to compete.
We never fitted lights but had to have a rear reflector fitted.

I regularly road my bike on the road so for safety reasons I fitted a rear brake light.
The next MOT the bike failed because technically as I had a rear light, I had to also have a front light !!!
So to get an MOT I had to tape over the rear brake light. After the MOT pass I removed the tape and continued to ride the bike!!!

By the way are hand signals still legal as there are no longer in the "highway code".
This is interesting, Micky, and highlights the problems that can occur when the law is ambiguous.

Nothing in these Regulations shall require any lamp or reflector to be fitted between sunrise and sunset to –

• (a) A vehicle not fitted with any front or rear position lamp.

To me, and taken as a stand-alone statement, that reads as if all the other lamps are optional if you don't have position lamps fitted, wired up or uncovered, but it looks as if your MOT chappie has interpreted it to be that that you must not have them, and it definitely doesn't say that.

There can also be knock-on effects beyond FPN's with no points for lighting regs offences. I found this interesting article from an insurance broker about the legality of running a daytime MOT -


So, they're happy to insure a bike that complies with the daytime MOT clause, but define it thus -

To qualify for a daytime MOT your bike must “have neither front nor rear position lamps, or have such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.” This applies to headlamps, position lamps and indicators. The situation with stop lamps is significantly more complicated.

Hmm, why do they think that the situation with stop lamps is more complicated when the clause says "Nothing in these Regulations shall require any lamp or reflector to be fitted between sunrise and sunset..."?

There are obvious safety concerns - I don't know about where you live, but I've found that tailgating while constantly looking down to check your phone has become a popular pastime for a lot of drivers these days and no brake lights = even less time for them to react to you slamming the brakes on in an emergency.

This clearly increases the likelihood of their insured party getting rear ended and making a claim, hence, I suspect, their reluctance to insure a bike with no stop lamp.

As such, it throws up the occasional case I dealt with (one or two a year) where drivers involved in RTC's or I just pulled due to their driving or the state of their vehicle, found that their insurance was invalid due to undisclosed modifications, failure to notify insurers of points, not having the correct category licence or otherwise breaching the conditions of their insurance.

That resulted in every case but one with the driver getting a minimum of 6 points and what is now a £300 fine (the other one resulted in the driver's employer being prosecuted for failing to pass on to the insurer details of a previous disqualification disclosed to them by the employee).

As for hand signals, best of luck getting anyone behind you who isn't a long-serving member of SAGA to have the slightest clue what your frantic up and down right arm out the window gesture means when a deer runs into the road ahead of you...

Anyway, I really do love Agent Thor and wish you many years of safe and enjoyable motoring in it.
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