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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Dino 246 Builds and Discussion

Dino 246 Builds and Discussion Da da da da daaa daa da da, ohoho Dino

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  #21  
Old 9th August 2017, 19:13
nostraloom nostraloom is offline
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Default Classic Replicas chassis

I will look to see if I have any pictures, but I don't think I do. We're talking 2009 or so, but I'll check. I might have a few printed pictures. I'll get back. / Jon
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  #22  
Old 10th August 2017, 10:19
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I love how generous enthusiasts are prepared to put themselves out to share and help others on this forum.
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  #23  
Old 10th August 2017, 23:10
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Thanks Jon,
this is a fascinating topic. I know another forum member adapted Alfa 166 hubs to MGF uprights - which is handy since the Alfa 166 allows the fitment of original Dino Cromodora wheels (same 108mm x 5 PCD and same centre bore). The science of suspension geometry is a bit much for me so seeing what others have done in the past and got to work well is useful.
As for the chassis design - I think Deon/JH DGT was rather lacking in torsional stiffness despite the higher sills and tunnel. Ferrari's solution seems to have been to put in big heavy oval tubes to what is basically an unsophisticated platform chassis. So replicating the Ferrari low sills/low tunnel will yield the right look and space but be heavy and not exactly super stiff, CASCU makes exact replicas.
cheers
Ross (in NZ)
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  #24  
Old 12th August 2017, 00:34
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Default suspension

Hello,
Thank you for your answer.
You can find a picture of the rear whell or my Deon. I have removed the suspension (attached picture).
I'm also interested by informations about chassis modifications because I want to implement Ford cougar engine and also modify the pedals to win place.
Thanks a lot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P_20170625_132427.jpg (89.4 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg P_20170625_132400.jpg (100.0 KB, 27 views)
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  #25  
Old 12th August 2017, 00:38
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Do you know this company?
http://www.protechshocks.co.uk/400-series/
Thanks
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  #26  
Old 12th August 2017, 12:13
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Default chassis/suspension

hi all

Here's a photo of the later cr suspension they used. copy of the dino.

ian
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File Type: jpg 001.jpg (101.6 KB, 34 views)
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  #27  
Old 13th August 2017, 02:33
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Hi,
Thank you
Do you have other informations?
Thanks dominique.
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  #28  
Old 13th August 2017, 22:27
nostraloom nostraloom is offline
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Default Classic Replicas / No pictures

Sorry, all I have for pictures of early chassis/ suspension is a small (low resolution) print screen from his website circ. 2009, Not enough info other than that it's clear the chassis is completely different (and less substantial) from later offering and no discernible suspension parts. / Jon
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  #29  
Old 14th August 2017, 08:40
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NeilF355 NeilF355 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostraloom View Post
Sorry, all I have for pictures of early chassis/ suspension is a small (low resolution) print screen from his website circ. 2009, Not enough info other than that it's clear the chassis is completely different (and less substantial) from later offering and no discernible suspension parts. / Jon

Hi Jon
Thanks for taking the time to look for the pictures.
I might try jacking the car up onto some tall axle stands and taking some pictures from underneath.
Neil
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  #30  
Old 21st August 2017, 22:15
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default The CR copy of genuine Dino suspension

Thanks for the photo of the late CR suspension Ian. Its a bit hard to tell but it kinda looks like the mounts for the wishbones are welded to the chassis members? On the real Dino these are bolted on and can be shimmed for adjustment.

I've been toying with the idea of replicating the original design (partly because suspension geometry is beyond my maths and physics skills!) but I guess the originals were designed to take advantage of relatively squishy high profile (70) tyres when radials were a brand new concept. So unless you want to make something with 205/70/14 in HR performance level (good luck finding those now days) then an update of the geometry and wheel size and tyre profile wouldn't hurt.
Cheers
Ross
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  #31  
Old 22nd August 2017, 17:26
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Default chassis

Hi

I think cr's later car was more a recreation of the dino. I agree with you that the inboard part looks welded to the chassis. And yes the real one used 'U' shaped washers to pack out the bush/wishbones.
Most kit cars used a bush that has a thread that can be screwed in or out to adjust it instead of adding or removing the 'U' shaped washers. In the case of the dino only the securing nut would need loosening to do the adjustment where as the kit wishbone would need completely dismantling.
I'm going with 16" replica cromadora wheels which allow me a larger choice of braking components. Looking at bespoke alloy uprights which should come with the right kingpin angle and inclination. I'm also copying deon front suspension. But something along the lines of a stratos rear setup.
I'm going to build my chassis in wood first to check everything works-easier to correct alter!!!
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  #32  
Old 25th October 2017, 17:36
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Hi,

I have removed rear and front suspensions.
Rear is 200Lbs and front is 450Lbs.

See attached pictures.
I dont understand why front has a Lsb more important than the rear?

If you can help me!!!!

Thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg front sping marking.jpg (84.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Front spring length.jpg (91.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Rear spring marking.jpg (87.1 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Rear spring length.jpg (89.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Front and rear suspensions.jpg (97.0 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Dodo87; 25th October 2017 at 17:39..
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  #33  
Old 25th October 2017, 22:15
dino_gt dino_gt is offline
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Hi Dodo;

the reason why the spring rate is higher at the front compared to the rear is the different motion ratio that both ends suspensions have. At the rear the ratio is about 1:1 which means that the wheel movement as it moves upwards or downwards is the same as the amount of movement of the spring, so for each inch of wheel travel you have the same amount in inches of spring deflection. This means that the effective spring rate (wheel rate)at the tyre contact patch is the same as the spring´s one.

However, at the front, the motion ratio will be around 1:0,5 which means that the wheel travel is almost the double of the spring deflection and this means that you will be having around 25% of the spring rate as wheel rate.

The actual suspension stiffness is the wheel rate so this means you have a softer suspension at the front than at the rear, even with stiffer springs at the front than at the rear (just a matter of leverage). This also is in connection with the weight suspended on the front axle and on the rear axle, which is different, being around 40% at the front and 60% at the rear, hence the highest resistance needed for the rear axle compared to the front.

hope this helps.
cheers.
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  #34  
Old 25th October 2017, 23:44
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Hi,
Thanks for your answer. Then, you think these values are OK? Now, I want to implement in my DEON another engine. I want to put a 6 cylinders 2,5l 24 valves Ford Duratec (170HP) instead of the actual one (Lancia 2l 4 cylinders).
What dou you think about this? Does the rear and front suspensions must be different of the actual one because of the new engine weigth?
Sorry for my English, I'm french!

Best Regards
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  #35  
Old 26th October 2017, 08:33
dino_gt dino_gt is offline
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well, there will be a difference in weight between the two engines, but usually this can be compensated with spring pre-load, re-adjusting the car´s ride height. Now, it seems that your spring preload on your dampers is not adjustable by looking at your pictures. I´d say you could make an improvement and buy a new set of adjustable dampers which allow you to adjust both spring pre-load/ride height and damper resistance. this will be useful not only for the engine change but also for tuning up the suspension further, once the v6 engine is fitted.
I say this because spring rates are not selected according to the weight distribution only. The static weight distribution is the first parameter to consider but only if the car is stationary. When it´s driven, you have weight transfer in acceleration, braking and cornering and this is really what you want to wait and check before making a spring choice to change yours.
rgds.
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  #36  
Old 26th October 2017, 09:40
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Thanks.
Yes, I want to change my rear and front suspensions but I dont know what I must buy, this is my problem! Do I should keep my spring or buy new ones? If I buy four new springs, what values of Lbs I must take????
In France, I have not find a company which can provide my the same dampers (mecanical dimensions).
I founded, in England, a company (http://www.protechshocks.co.uk) which sell the good damper (mecanical dimensions).
Regards.
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  #37  
Old 26th October 2017, 10:28
dino_gt dino_gt is offline
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Hi again;
I´d definitely keep the current springs and change the dampers. Once the engine is changed, you´ll be able to adjust ride height and you possibly won´t need to change the springs to set the correct ride height. After driving the car you´ll have feedback to either change front or rear springs if it´s necessary. Any dampers with the same eye to eye total lenght and same travel could be fitted, but if they are adjustable you can tune them up just by turning the knob. I´m familiared with Gaz but there are other brands as Avo, etc. i haven´t tried protech but I think they are pretty good, maybe more expensive. The critical thing here is the adjustability. If they are adjustable, you won´t have problems.
rgds.
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  #38  
Old 26th October 2017, 12:34
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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Hi,
Can you give me, please, your damper references?
Regards
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  #39  
Old 26th October 2017, 12:53
dino_gt dino_gt is offline
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Sorry, I don´t have them anymore so I don´t know. maybe some other owners may tell you.
However, If you´re sure that the ones you have were fitted to the car just look for same size and travel dampers and you´ll be fine.
rgds.
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  #40  
Old 26th October 2017, 12:59
Dodo87 Dodo87 is offline
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OK, thanks.
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