double glazing

[zagmad]

with the original windscreen frame staying and not affecting the cars structure . would it be possible to place a second screen in front of it to achieve the lines required for a period car?
If anyone in the know be able to explain if this would be possible,or if frame stays ,new one in front and glass from original removed.
not looking for loop holes just achieving a period look. Then be a case of extendiing the roof line to the new frame and raising the fibreglass shell to the new window line. (not wanting to reinvent the wheel just make it lighter and stronger) :-)

[scimjim]

Can't see anything in the c&u regs (part 2 E - vision) but if it's a bonded screen, I think it's regarded as structural?

[zagmad]

so if kept original screen present and placed new screen on its own metal base could work with it? gets complicated but on the classic cars they don't seem to have much in front of the screen. the mx5 mk1 one has a gap between the screen and bonnet . plastic bit where leaves tend to collect and the windscreen wipers. as the screen sits back quite steeply compared to classic screens and that's what gives it the illusion of height where normally their would be metal then the screen.
something the wedge shaped 70's cars are answerable for.

[scimjim]

How would you clear dirt, condensation or misting?

[zagmad]

both would be sealed together. bit like double glazing. the interior glass demists as usual and the new screen has the donors wipers set at its new angle. just an idea. would need developing but probably a basic screen like the mgb convertible or morris minor. would be a metal frame to hold weight of glass. no point making a one off just for the job. could use db4/5/6 windscreen if you have the right supplier or maker local. the kit would need extensions to cover them like an a pillar exension. some period glass rapped round then connecteed at the sides.

[zagmad]

I know its pig in the sky stuff but keeps the car safe and works with the donor car better then some who chop and put box section in. the tribute kits come with roll cages so if the glass could be removed then the shorter raised frame could sit in the same space or slightly ahead.

[EL PRIMER]

just not feasible or practical mate. I do understand what you are trying to achieve but modifications like that are just not realistic.
If I am correct I think you are the postie ? Apologies if you aren't , but if I asked you to deliver a parcel to an address that had no access but you needed to get it inside , it would be a bit like me saying , ''just create a door to get in'' or ''make the letterbox bigger'' .....both feasible solutions on paper but totally unpractical in practice...
I hope this hasn't offended you but just trying to get the point across that although Chris performs magic , he can't perform miracles !!

[zagmad]

Can be done. But requires Iva.as removal of glass from original frame needs to be removed for new to be placed inside. . Was trying to appeal to the people in the know who deal with Iva tests day in and day out. Just a case of removing old glass and raising fibreglass shell and replacing glass shortened height glass to compensate. Glass is deemed structural so needs Iva. Simples. Miracles not required

[zagmad]

chris has in the past raised the shell on the amz so as to give the illusion of the screen being lowered but the frame doesnt change. I was just wondering if a new shorter screen could be put in that if a stone hits it could be replaced without the shell needing to be cracked and pulled off. other options was to have a front end that lifts like seanicks thread. or bit like the front on a triumph gt6 for easy access to original windscreen. all feasible but need developing so all can use per the donor car choice.

[zagmad]

raising of the shell requires the balance of lowering the suspension and the right choice of tyres to allow for suspension travel. like all projects it requires balance to give the right affect and be practical to drive daily not just on track but good old English country back roads.

[EL PRIMER]

I do love the way you use words like ''just'' !! Although nearly anything is feasible given the right budget , time , tooling , skills etc. what you are describing to ''just'' be done represents hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds to create and you would end up with a product that has no chance of ever giving a return on its investment.

I come from a Hot Rod background , so am no stranger to modifying , using alternative parts etc.but the level you are talking about is totally custom built to an unrealistic level.

[EL PRIMER]

My mistake - it works a treat .

[Tribute Automotive]

Originally Posted by EL PRIMER

That's interesting. Looks like a porsche 356 speedster screen. I was thinking about doing one of those next on an MX5 or Z3 after the Kobra etc. etc.

[Tribute Automotive]

Originally Posted by Tribute Automotive

That's interesting. Looks like a porsche 356 speedster screen. I was thinking about doing one of those next on an MX5 or Z3 after the Kobra etc. etc.

I wonder how much those screens are? They must be pricey........

[zagmad]

So serious. Er have a word with Chris as to how he raised the shell on the amz. If you have no imagination then cant see what I'm saying. As everything with kit cars, custom all the way. Block of metal to raise a shortened screen. Custom yes, but achievable hence the mention of Iva. Measurements and shaping of fibre glass required. Simple question expecting Iva inspector to answer. Imagination and ingenuity get us what we want being scared of the work involved makes us weak. Pushing and looking outside the box requires we ask questions others won't.

[zagmad]

Talking of Porsche 356. Toyota mr2mk3. Most of the panels come off like the z3
very old school and curvy. Pics of raised body on start of joes alternative build thread. Compare your pic of mx5 to the pics of the kit, think its the 3rd one down of the side view. You might find it interesting 'el primer'.

[Mark Burton]

I think El Primer was just demonstrating that an additional windshield doesnt really work. I did wonder if it could actually distort your vision too.

If you really wanted to go for a lower or different rake screen, it would probably be easier to try the Iva route with a properly executed modification before dramatically altering suspension and compensating with tyres?

Cosmetic changes affect little in terms of how a standard road car drives and radically altering steering / suspension geometry, without proper qualification to achieve aesthetic goals is not the way forward.

[zagmad]

. I got the answer i wanted from scimjim. Thanks for all your comments. If i couldn't remove the original screen then theory over. The double glazing was just another alternative. Have a nice day :-)

[EL PRIMER]

zagmad - so serious !
If you knew my background , you would realize that I have very much thought outside the box with previous stuff I have done and have a decent knowledge of whats feasible , practical , viable etc. I have been actively involved in many projects , some commercial and some personal as well as advising and helping other manufacturers , fabricators etc.
not bragging or trying to big myself up , just demonstrating that one of us has a better idea of how it would or wouldn't work in practice !
And , if mistaken , didn't Chris abandon the raised body line idea on the AMZ after it was deemed to be inpractical to produce ?

also , It's probably worth mentioning that manufacturers spend millions ensuring that suspension and steering geometry's work as they should. It's not 'just' a case of lowering that a bit , moving that a bit - change that for a different one etc. If it was that easy , everyone would be doing it.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by EL PRIMER

z

also , It's probably worth mentioning that manufacturers spend millions ensuring that suspension and steering geometry's work as they should. It's not 'just' a case of lowering that a bit , moving that a bit - change that for a different one etc. If it was that easy , everyone would be doing it.

Erm, really? I guess I must have just struck lucky with my suck it and see suspension mods then.