Changing priorities (and engine)!!

sconcia · #1 13th November 2008, 12:48

Hi all,

Progress has been unimaginably slow since I bought parts 1 and 2 of this kit, mainly due to house DIY, wedding and a new baby. With different priorities, I'm trying to be realistic about ever getting this project done.

I'd originally planned to go the Type-R route but having read some of the issues around this, I'm thinking I need to stick with a simpler engine.

Trouble is, it's so long since i bought the kit that I forget which bits are Type-R specific. I think it's just the engine mounts and the exhaust. Does that sound right?

And am I correct in thinking a 1.6 or 1.8 K-series is going to be the most straightforward (and cheapest)?

Cheers,
Sconch

chrislandy · #2 13th November 2008, 12:50

don't worry, i've been building mine since April 2003!!

limpabit · #3 13th November 2008, 15:14

Depends on what bits you already have. You would need to get a bubble donor for a start. With a good engine. Or T series turbo if you still fancy the power of the honda. But would need to go chargecooler route etc.

Before you make up your final mind about the engine, I would go for a test drive in some.

Put you location with your name. May be a bit late in the year, but I would really recommend it.

Here is a map where everyone that wanted to be know are:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=...524c1d8abf&z=6

chrislandy · #4 13th November 2008, 15:38

might be being stupid, but how do you add yourself to the map?

limpabit · #5 13th November 2008, 15:44

Hi Chris.

No, your not stupid. PM me your rough area where you live, a picture of the car and spec on photobucket or similar.

And I'll do the rest.

alackofspeed · #6 13th November 2008, 16:09

your profile says Southampton - is that accurate?

If so, there's a chap nr Southampton with a k-series - might be only a 1.4 though. He goes by the name of daftbadger.

I'm not far away (Type-R), nr Wimborne. I'd happily play devil's advocate and take you for a ride in mine.

What "problems" have you read about the type-r? Other than a few bespoke things (I wouldn't advise using the Marlin mounts, if yours are the same as I was supplied with), there's no problem as such. It just won't be the cheapest route.

How old is your chassis? If it's the earlier design rear end, then you'd be well advised to speak to Big Rich and get the shopping list of parts to resolve the back end - it's about £160 (I think), and from what Craig has said, the difference is massive.

sconcia · #7 13th November 2008, 17:13

Southampton's pretty accurate. About 10k north of there really.

My brother-in-law lives in Wimborne and we do visit occasionally. So might leave the family there and take you up on the offer of a ride at some point thanks.

The problems/issues that spring to mind are:
exhaust not fitting
hydraulic clutch recommended
engine mounts not great
problem with driveshafts (might have made that one up but I seem to remember someone did them differently!!)
which ecu solution to take

Actually that's not many, and a couple of years ago I probably would have seen them as challenges rather than problems. But also at last one person mentioned the twitchiness of the chassis. And I guess if the chassis twitches I'd rather it did it with 120hp, than just as 200hp of vtec kicks in!!

I suppose the overall issue is that although I'm good at following instructions, I don't have the experience to sort things out differently. So for example, the fact that the spliine of the uj on the steering column doesn't match the steering rack means I need to find a different column I believe. But I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for and so it brings things to a grinding halt. I just want to avoid things like this as much as possible really.

And my chassis is 2 years old (so big thanks to chrislandy for making me feel a bit better!!). Not sure which type it is.

limpabit · #8 13th November 2008, 17:35

Beleive me mate. There is plenty of help on this site. To help (give you kick up the a***).

I mean help.

We have all been there. Lack of motivation. I'm an IT guy by trade, and never been any good at DIY, let alone build a car when I started. To gain that motivation, I found going out in another car gives you that kick.

And I'm sure if your really stuck, John (alackofspeed) would pop along.

First things first. Get you engine choice sorted. Then we can start on the challenges/problems.

Quick look on ebay, for a steering column.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-200-214-...1%7C240%3A1318

craig · #9 13th November 2008, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sconcia

The problems/issues that spring to mind are:
exhaust not fitting
hydraulic clutch recommended
engine mounts not great
problem with driveshafts (might have made that one up but I seem to remember someone did them differently!!)
which ecu solution to take

But also at last one person mentioned the twitchiness of the chassis. And I guess if the chassis twitches I'd rather it did it with 120hp, than just as 200hp of vtec kicks in!!

Exhaust problem is easily solved! make one yourself!! this is what both John and I ended up doing and it onlt takes a few hours

Hydraulic clutch pretty easy! I had some horrible problems with mine but that was down to incorrect hose size

Engine mounts from marlin are fine but you need to add a rear mount to steady engine, lots of photo's of these in various threads

Driveshafts have all been fine (touch wood)

Ecu very simple hondata only way to go

And lastly chassis twitching is easily sorted for about £130 so don't let this put you off

You will be very dissapointed with the 1.6 me thinks

Craig

alackofspeed · #10 13th November 2008, 20:46

There's a very obvious engine suggestion..... that shouldn't be stupidly expensive, and will tick all the boxes.

Follow the same path as John (Limpabit), and fit a VAG 1.8t engine and gearbox.

limpabit · #11 14th November 2008, 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by alackofspeed

There's a very obvious engine suggestion..... that shouldn't be stupidly expensive, and will tick all the boxes.

Follow the same path as John (Limpabit), and fit a VAG 1.8t engine and gearbox.

Yes it is a good engine. But I'm beginning to find out, it's beginning to cost to get the job done properly. No different to the T16 turbo though. Chargecooler, baffled sump, injectors, fuel pump and possibly fuel tank. All depending on power.

Though engine itself, with box etc was near the £1k mark. This is for 180BHP.

chrislandy · #12 14th November 2008, 07:20

whereas it's about a thrid of that for the t16 inc gearbox... old tech vs new tech really...

I do like the audi lump though...

sconcia · #13 14th November 2008, 08:16

Thanks for all the words of advice.

I’m not a big fan of turbo engines and the VAG in particular is too cheap to tune up to levels that would leave me in a ditch!!

So its either go for the honda engine, or go for the K-series (and change my daily car for an Integra for my dose of vtec madness!!).

I’m being tempted back towards the Honda, despite thinking making my own exhaust is a bit beyond my current skills, unless I can make it out of MDF!!

Anyway, one of the next things I’ll need to do is the clutch so I’ll start a new thread later with all sorts of stupid questions about hydraulics.

limpabit · #14 14th November 2008, 08:34

There are no stupid questions when it comes to kit car building.

I'd suggest go for a ride in Steve's (sdm..1.6 K) and John Dry's (Honda type R) to compare. Both not too far away for you to compare.

Custom exhausts.

Found this.

http://www.jetex.co.uk/website/downl...-catalogue.pdf

Don't look too bad.

But don't Marlin do them?

chrislandy · #15 14th November 2008, 11:27

I know a very reasonable custom exhaust place in cardiff, all stainless too

alackofspeed · #16 14th November 2008, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sconcia

I’m being tempted back towards the Honda, despite thinking making my own exhaust is a bit beyond my current skills, unless I can make it out of MDF!!

It's easy enough to do. If you can't weld / don't have access to a welder, you can always do what a friend of mine did, and cut mandrel bent peices to shape, strap them together with gaffer tape, and then take the assembled creation to a local welder.

eaa53 · #17 14th November 2008, 13:48

Its alright you Honda boys talking up the installation but I lay odds on the fact that if you have a donor Rover, with working components, i.e. engine, G/B, ecu, Speedo, pedal box, engine wiring loom and a whole lot of other minor but significant bits its easier and more straight forward to stick with the Rover until after the SVA.

The Honda installation is not as easy as the basic Rover, is what I am saying not that its better or worse, I am just being honest.

In fact I would go one further and say use an MGF as the donor but that’s a personal choice I would have made if I knew then, what I know now.

I do not expect my 1.8 vvc to be slow, I have talked to 1.6 owners and they are happy with it as a road going car.

If you want track thrills then that's a different technical delivery.

Fit standard brakes, wheels, hubs, lights everything you can from the donor or your costs will soar to the heavens.

The clue is to make life as easy as possible for yourself given the fundamental issue that you will get with the build anyway.

Rear suspension I suggest if you have the 90mm between top mountings upright for the rear you take that issue up with Marlin. They know its dangerous at speed to fit them and should under duress change them for the improved configuration, and that goes for a lot of other builders, complain to the supplier before you fit them, you now know what the effect will be if you continue, its documented widely.

Fitting a hydraulic clutch is a good option but only easy if you have the right bits, fundamentally, if your donor G/B is hydraulic and you have the mounts and the slave; its straight forward. Double the problems/issues and cost every bit you take out of that equation.

Under no circumstances would I advocate anyone trying to close down the column spines onto a smaller splined shaft unless you are a masochist looking for a future ditch or tree to run in too.

I have a spare Rover 200 steering column with two ign keys and a set of clear lens Pug headlights for sale, if you are interested. I am in Somerset so not too close but in the right area of the country.

eaa53
(JohnC)

limpabit · #18 14th November 2008, 14:05

You bring up a good point.

Do you have a donor already?

Not sure about MGF though. As I would assume it uses metro outer CV joints/hubs.

eaa53 · #19 14th November 2008, 14:31

You are correct it does use the metro hubs, but a set of 200 rear hubs are not difficult to get.

The bonus is the engine, PG1 G/B, gear change (for the PG1 anyway) the heater and the other rear mounted bits that help you build.

SDMC001 · #20 14th November 2008, 19:31

Sconch

All this talk about big engine turbos and horse power blowns my brain, how much power do you need, the burning question bit like does size matter.

I know now my head will be on the block of the guys who have more hp than you can shake a stick at.

To be honest I have been out in the T series turbo powered and the type R, and to be quite honest they both leave you with a smile as wide as the Thames estuary, BUT you must go with what you have.

I bought a 216 bubble shape as my donor and I would say that maybe a smallish engine by comparison, though I go out with some Elise owners and in the main its only the high performance guys that I cant keep up with, although I do hit the limiter most times. If I had the choice the 1800 K or better still the 18KT would be nice.

In the matter of engine fitment, I must say the K series just go in very well, and is easy, touch wood no issues for me, I personaly would reccomend that engine choice as they way to go certainly for convenience and cheap fun.

Like any of the guys who drive 5 exi, its when the little boys ans girls in their saxos and vti pull along side its nice to let them beat you off the lights, get to the next set and bury them, albeit slighty childish, but who cares.

Steve