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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Dino 246 Builds and Discussion

Dino 246 Builds and Discussion Da da da da daaa daa da da, ohoho Dino

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  #1  
Old 16th April 2009, 21:08
nickfranks nickfranks is offline
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Default Deon Dino 246 GTS - New Engine....!

Hi,

I am about to put an alfa V6 into my Deon dino, which (bizzarely) came with a golf GTI engine in it. Alfas or Lancias seem to be the most common, but I've gone with the alfa for the thrill of the V6.

Does anyone have any helpful hints on how the gear linkage is set up with this engine option. Photos, notes, or any other advice would be welcome along with any advice on the drivetrain / which hubs to use.

Good to see a dedicated Dino discussion group on here at last, as I think we've all felt a bit lost at times with these bloody cars..!

Nick
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  #2  
Old 15th May 2009, 12:22
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default Dino hubs

A great engine to fit! I read a kitcar mag article about one fitted - they chose a 12v 3 litre and kept the standard airfilter mounted in the boot. They had a lot of problems with drive axles though. Eventually they bought their own axle spline machine!

In my web searches it looks like the Alfa 166 has a hub with the same PCD (108mm) as the Dino and the same centre bore. Also there is a company reproducing the cromodora wheels so even if you didn't have the right hubs they might be able to give you a set with whatever pcd you need. They sell them for 700GBP a set in 14" or 16". Superformance stock them. Personally I think the right wheels really set the car off.
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  #3  
Old 17th May 2009, 13:55
mac mac is offline
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Hi Nick,

Is it the V6 from the Alfa 164 you are going to fit ? If it is, a company called Trentside classics in Lincolnshire has done this conversion before with great results. I think this is the conversion that Ross was talking about as well. The engine is a very tight squeez and you have to re-design the chassis and make up bespoke engine mounts. You keep the Alfa gearbox and Trentside made the driveshafts in house. Its quite a big job but apparently well worth the effort for the end results. Trentsides Tel No was 01724783506 you may want to talk to them to get more info about the transplant,gear linkages etc.

Good luck and best regards Mac.
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  #4  
Old 17th May 2009, 22:00
dinojo dinojo is offline
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Hi Nick.
Have you thought of using the vw vr6 engine?its much narrower than alfa v6 and has the same power and sound.Should be an easier build.
Let us know what you find/
regards..dinojo
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  #5  
Old 18th May 2009, 02:43
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default v6 choices

Yes Trentside were the company which did a one off fitment of an Alfa V6. It is a glorious engine and has been called "the best in the world" in magazine reviews. I loved it in my Alfa 164. Classic Replicas use it in their updated Deon - plenty of photos on their website. They don't use the old 4 stud Lancia Beta hubs though - as evidenced by the Alfa 164 5 stud wheels in one shot.
There is a lot of stuff, help and experience with this on the Stratos Super site - they often use Alfa V6s. Various vendors there have the necessary bits, e.g. Gerry's Hawk Stratos replica uses this engine and he has a 5 stud conversion kit.

As for the VW VR6 - I can't speak for it but when making a Dino replica then an Italian V6 seems the most appropriate choice. Alfa V6s are common. Personally I've bought a Dino engine but getting the parts to recon it is taking time and money. Then there is the gearbox because its from a Fiat Dino (front engine) not a "Ferrari Dino" .
Cheers
Ross
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  #6  
Old 21st May 2009, 00:15
Mirabeau3000 Mirabeau3000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickfranks View Post
Hi,

I am about to put an alfa V6 into my Deon dino, which (bizzarely) came with a golf GTI engine in it. Alfas or Lancias seem to be the most common, but I've gone with the alfa for the thrill of the V6.

Does anyone have any helpful hints on how the gear linkage is set up with this engine option. Photos, notes, or any other advice would be welcome along with any advice on the drivetrain / which hubs to use.

Good to see a dedicated Dino discussion group on here at last, as I think we've all felt a bit lost at times with these bloody cars..!

Nick
Hi Nick,

I have done this engine install in my Deon mirabeau, although the car is not on the road yet I have driven it and the sound and the grunt from this engine is something else!

The gearchange I fitted to mine is a cable change which I modified, it was out of a Mitsubishi colt (old boxy model) and is the same in the older protons - it works perfectly and is quite slick. There are quite a few cars out there that use cables these days but an MR2 might be worth considering. I spoke to the owner of Classic Replicas a few years back and we discussed this mod - on speaking with him some time later he was developing a cable change, I think it was from a Rover - not sure which model. Perhaps it was an MGF?

I stuck with the original Beta hubs on the rear and have gone for special driveshafts. One point worth considering is upgrading the brakes (all that power!) I have Wilwood 4 pots up front with drilled/grooved Integrale discs (284mm dia.) and I'm about to swap for Wilwood 4 pot handbrake calipers on the back - not sure which discs yet - probably the same. This disc is used on lots of Fiat/Alfa/Lancia's of the 2 litre engine sizes.

Try Rally Design, they are pretty good for brake stuff and the prices are good too.

Hope this helps
Jon
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  #7  
Old 21st May 2009, 09:34
nickfranks nickfranks is offline
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Hi Jon and thanks for the info - very useful.

Nick
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  #8  
Old 21st May 2009, 10:15
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limpabit limpabit is offline
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I used the MFG gearlinkage and gear stick mechanism for the 5exi. Very slick gear change. But made it easier as the Rover turbo engine used the same gearbox as the MGF.
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  #9  
Old 21st May 2009, 13:03
dinojo dinojo is offline
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Whats the weight difference between the alfa and the lancia engine? the alfa lump seems alot heavier .
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickfranks View Post
Hi,

I am about to put an alfa V6 into my Deon dino, which (bizzarely) came with a golf GTI engine in it. Alfas or Lancias seem to be the most common, but I've gone with the alfa for the thrill of the V6.

Does anyone have any helpful hints on how the gear linkage is set up with this engine option. Photos, notes, or any other advice would be welcome along with any advice on the drivetrain / which hubs to use.

Good to see a dedicated Dino discussion group on here at last, as I think we've all felt a bit lost at times with these bloody cars..!

Nick
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  #10  
Old 21st May 2009, 23:28
Mirabeau3000 Mirabeau3000 is offline
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Although the V6 is a bigger engine it is all alloy whereas IIRC the Lancia engine has a cast iron block, perhaps they are not so different in weight?

I have had the V6 on an engine stand and it didn't feel much different to a 2litre 145 engine which has a cast iron block also!
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  #11  
Old 25th May 2009, 22:42
Mirabeau3000 Mirabeau3000 is offline
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Default Help Needed!

Can anyone tell me where the window lifts come from? I have one (which I got from Classic Replicas some years ago) but I need the opposite side. I have a Mirabeau but I assume they are the same on all models.

I have a Deon build manual for the DGT and Mirabeau and this gives me a part number and states it is a Lucas part, but I can't identify it against any Lucas part no's!

Also, if anyone needs any info from the manual then just let me know and I will scan and email what you need.

Jon
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  #12  
Old 22nd June 2009, 14:44
lewy lewy is offline
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Default 246 dino

Hello,
I have just joined and i'm very interested in finding a dino v6 engine.
The project i have is a 1960 246 ferrari fibreglass replica F1 mold that i have bought from a guy who had built the F1 car. He had been to the ferrari factory to get exact details to build his car.
I dont have any running gear so this is where im starting... Does anyone have any v6 dino engines that would suit.
forgive me if im asking in the wrong section, any suggestions much appreciated.
Cheers Lewy.
Australia
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  #13  
Old 22nd June 2009, 21:52
Mirabeau3000 Mirabeau3000 is offline
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Hi Lewy, sounds like an interesting project you have there!

I seem to remember reading an article in Auto Italia a few years back about a 1 off 246 replica that a chap had built for himself, it seems the experts at the magazine thought it was pretty authentic too.

As for a Dino engine, you could try www.eurospares.co.uk as they break italian exotics and sell a lot of new parts for said cars.

Regards
Jon
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  #14  
Old 22nd June 2009, 22:08
classicreplicasuk classicreplicasuk is offline
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Hi Lewy,

We may be able to help with your engine search. We have reconditioned V6 Alfa Romeo 2.5 engines and gearboxes. E-mail me at classicreplicasuk@blueyonder.co.uk.

Regards
Gordon
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  #15  
Old 23rd June 2009, 10:42
lewy lewy is offline
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Default 1960 F1 246 parts

Hello everyone,
Jon and Gorden thank you for your responces.
Jon i would think this is the same F1 car your thinking of, at the time he was the only one to have reproduced the 1960 F1 ferrari race car and he did a remarkable job too. I think it is still the only reproduction one that i know of, the owner that built this car is an elderly man now and i am very lucky to have the mold to build another one.
I will contact that web site you gave me Jon.
Gorden i will send email to you shortly with regard to the v6.
I am still unsure where this will take me......... everyone has to have a dream tho, but for now i have other projects in front of this. I will keep watch on this site for more infomation too.
Cheers Lewy
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  #16  
Old 24th June 2009, 03:53
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default Dino 246 engine

Hi Lewy,
good to hear someone else is working on the Dino engine solution. I bought a couple of these about 20-25 years ago. The Dino V6 that was used in the Fiat Dino (Spider & Coupe 1967-72), "Ferrari" Dino 206 & 246 (1968-74) and the Lancia Stratos was directly descended from the F1 Dino racing motors. They were all built by Fiat and have FIAT cast into them. The first 2 litre one is all aluminium and then came the cast iron block 2.4. Only the Fiat ones were front engine / rear wheel drive. The Ferrari/Lancia versions used Ferrari's transverse gearbox for mid mounting. These crop up occasionally for sale. There is a 2.4 on Ebay now - suitable for a rebuild sitting at US$3000 with a few days to go:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferra...7%7C240%3A1318

I sold my 2.4 in 1985 to a company in Sussex called EuroSpares. I heard it running the day before delivering it to them but the next day they stopped the cheque and said it would not turn over! They then gave me less money for it. I would have taken the motor back but they had dismantled it and I was returning to NZ the next week. You live and learn - draw your own conclusions about dealing with such companies. I still have a 2 litre but it is in pieces and requires a complete rebuild. My plan is to adapt it to Mazda MX5 gearbox/diff etc and build a Fiat Dino Spider replica. There are a few Fiat Dino Yahoo group members in OZ - join the group and ask around, someone may have a Dino engine closer to home
Cheers
Ross in NZ
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  #17  
Old 7th October 2009, 16:30
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossnzwpi View Post
A great engine to fit! I read a kitcar mag article about one fitted - they chose a 12v 3 litre and kept the standard airfilter mounted in the boot. They had a lot of problems with drive axles though. Eventually they bought their own axle spline machine!

In my web searches it looks like the Alfa 166 has a hub with the same PCD (108mm) as the Dino and the same centre bore. Also there is a company reproducing the cromodora wheels so even if you didn't have the right hubs they might be able to give you a set with whatever pcd you need. They sell them for 700GBP a set in 14" or 16". Superformance stock them. Personally I think the right wheels really set the car off.
Hi all,
I contacted supeformance about these repro wheels and having them drilled to a new pcd or new stud pattern/or even supplied undrilled but was told it wasn't possible as the wheels are cast with five holes and are made for the original dino.
ian
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  #18  
Old 8th October 2009, 07:50
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default pcd of Dino wheels

Hi, if you want to re-drill a real or repro Dino wheel it is relatively easy if it is to suit a hub which is either 5 stud or 4 stud but the same 108mm PCD. There is a sort of hubcap which would cover the old holes - I have a couple of them off a 246GT. You need to match the centre bore too so it sits snugly over the brake/hub centre. If you don't you'll find the wheel goes ever-so-slightly off balance very soon! You can turn the hole in the wheel out bigger or get little sleeves to make it smaller from most mag shops.
Cheers
Ross
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  #19  
Old 8th October 2009, 12:43
mac mac is offline
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Default Dino wheels

Hi Ross, I must be misinterpreting your post on re drilling Dino wheels, if you were putting them on a hub with 5 stud 108pcd surely they wouldnt need re drilling, but if the hub was 4 stud wouldnt drilling another 4 holes in the wheel seriously weaken it as the new holes would be very close to the original holes. Have you done this mod with success.

Regards Mac.
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  #20  
Old 9th October 2009, 10:24
thecarbuilder246 thecarbuilder246 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac View Post
Hi Ross, I must be misinterpreting your post on re drilling Dino wheels, if you were putting them on a hub with 5 stud 108pcd surely they wouldnt need re drilling, but if the hub was 4 stud wouldnt drilling another 4 holes in the wheel seriously weaken it as the new holes would be very close to the original holes. Have you done this mod with success.

Regards Mac.
hi,I've looked into this alot.To go from 4/100 to 5/108 means one hole clashes.Try it on paper-draw two circles 100mm and 108 with the relative stud patterns.4 are ok one will break into the other. The best way I can see is to weld up the one offending holes and then re-drill and re-tap the five new holes to suit the wheels. Spigot ring can be made to suit so the wheel sit centrally on the hub. How ever as pointed out to me the offset needs to be checked so the new wheels sit correctly in the arches.
ian
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