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  #1  
Old 22nd November 2005, 08:21
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Fuoriserie Fuoriserie is offline
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Default NEW DESIGN PROJECT 2006

I've been thinking hard on a new kit design project for 2006.
Hopefully it will follow through as a full scale prototype ......

I just have to many ideas going through my head and would like to have your opinions and comments, before I even start on the project.

Here are a few of my ideas:

1)Front wheel drive road/track racer ( a modern Jester or Firefox competitor)
2) A mid-engine Ariel Atom competitor
3) A small SUV
4) A modern Mini Marcos coupe

The price range for the final kit builder would be 3.500 to 5.000 Pounds

I need your feedback a

I appreciate you help guys
thanks
Italo
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  #2  
Old 22nd November 2005, 08:40
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5) A modern Mid engine GTM Coupe/K3 competitor, would be my last idea.... for now!
6) a Threewheeler
I will be posting a few renderings pretty soon.

Thanks again

Italo
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  #3  
Old 22nd November 2005, 11:41
Ex-Biker Ex-Biker is offline
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Italo

I kinda like the idea of a small SuV.

No idea why, I have never really liked 'em.

BTW YHpm
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  #4  
Old 22nd November 2005, 18:28
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Is your budget of 3,500 - 5,000 your estimate just for the kit or for the completed car?
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  #5  
Old 23rd November 2005, 13:09
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Hi Kartman

Yes I wouls see the price of 5000 Pounds, as a complete kit built by the final builder. I know it's at the lower end of the market but achievable for a single donor kitcar. Just like the above mentioned Jester, Firefox, Firecat and a few others.

I believe there is a niche in this price range, as long as the product is interesting and the design is pleasing.

A small SUV and a small shooting brake are two new concepts that, someone should take into consideration in the kit industry.

A modern Reliant Shimitar on Fiesta mechanicals or other.....cheaper to manufacture and build.

Just a few ideas
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  #6  
Old 23rd November 2005, 18:16
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OK, Italo, lets take each one at a time

1)Front wheel drive road/track racer (a modern Jester or Firefox competitor)

The only design I feel is possible within your budget, maybe even retaining the underpinnings of the donor car a la Paul Banham

2) A mid-engine Ariel Atom competitor

Atom's are in the 20K plus area, fully built and are a very straight forward build up so the assembly cost is a small percentage of the price. You are not realistically going to compete with a product such as the Atom on 25% of the cost

3) A small SUV

Dont even bother - from my experience if a buyer can obtain a car that suits it requirement from a mainstream manufacturer, fully built, they will.

4) A modern Mini Marcos coupe

See 3

5) A modern Mid engine GTM Coupe/K3 competitor

See 4, & 3. And a bit of 2 (how successful has the K3 been recently?)

6) a Threewheeler

Possible - would be different, depends on design

Sorry to pee on your bonfire (English phrase....) of various ideas but from my (expensive) experience if you try to compete with designs which can be compared to mainstream manufacturers vehicles, you will fail.

Also you do not appear to have allowed for development costs against some idea of production numbers?
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  #7  
Old 24th November 2005, 08:37
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Kartman

I like your feedback and I pretty much agree with all of it.
I was not taking into consideration development costs but, I believe for a front Wheel drive track racer maybe 10 to 15 000 Pounds should do it in Italy. Maybe!!!

I found this very interesting site of a complete Firefox build and the real cost for the build

http://www.davebence.co.uk/onyx_firefox/build_costs.htm

I believe this is the only type of car you could build in the real world for my proposed budget.

I will post some pictures soon to have your feedback

keep the comments comming
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  #8  
Old 24th November 2005, 09:00
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Here is the other bench mark car i was thinking of for my design: The Firefly.
The build prices are very competitive, and can find so many tarted up Pandas at my local wrecker!! Should really consider the Fiat engine option.

http://www.dartcars.co.uk/Prices.htm

Does anyone know of a buildup diary of the Firefly on the net.

Cheers
Italo
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  #9  
Old 24th November 2005, 09:27
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I actually think the Atom competitor could easily work.

All you need is a chassis . . .

Use a Honda donor and you get a decent engine etc.

Obviously, you'll have to have a bike engined alternative too. However you can get older ZX9 and YZR1000 engines at decent prices. Still 150bhp too.
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  #10  
Old 24th November 2005, 14:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Biker
I actually think the Atom competitor could easily work.
All you need is a chassis . . .
Use a Honda donor and you get a decent engine etc.
Indeed. kartman's comment on the Atom's 20,000 cost doesn't mention that it uses all new parts. There are quite a number of other bike-engined-car kits about and I'm sure the build of few comes to 20k - take a look at http://locostbuilders.co.uk/ for examples. The Atom is much better looking than many of the BEC kits I've seen, tho', and a home-build alternative to it would be very attractive.

Stroller.
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  #11  
Old 24th November 2005, 18:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuoriserie
Does anyone know of a buildup diary of the Firefly on the net.
I wish there was......
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  #12  
Old 26th November 2005, 14:17
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I also think that an economical Ariel Atom is doable.

Just use any existing mid-engine chassis and create a minimum body.

A good chassis could be that of the Sylva R1ot, with less bodywork...

I'll show something pretty soon

Italo
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  #13  
Old 27th November 2005, 11:09
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How about a Banham style conversion on a modern FWD platform - an evolution of the Superbug design?

A sort of modern beach buggy?
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  #14  
Old 27th November 2005, 15:02
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I'm no designer.
(Pause for laughter)
But I know what I like and the Pimlico Domino always appealed to me. A classic shape and (relatively) bulletproof mechanicals. An easy(!) build and you end up with a pretty cool convertible.

Surely (ignoring these metal roofed CC things) convertibles sell, but allied to a classic shape.....a winner!!
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  #15  
Old 29th November 2005, 07:40
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Ferg
I have been working on the same parameters for my new design project..... will need your help for posting my renderings

Italo
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  #16  
Old 29th November 2005, 08:43
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Trouble as I see it though is that at the end of the day it's a mini so why not just customise the real thing, I'm guessing that was it's undoing and why it's not stayed as a mainstream kit.

John

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  #17  
Old 10th December 2005, 10:02
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It gives me great pleasure to reveal these stunning designs from Italo!!






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  #18  
Old 10th December 2005, 10:20
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Thanks Ferg!

Let me know what you all think about it, and if it's worth pursuing the building of the prototype.
Just a few questions:

What type of engines do you envisage in this prototype?
Ford, Rover, Honda,Fiat, Peugeot,Renault?

Price of the Kit?

I need your feedback and comments
Thanks guys
Italo
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  #19  
Old 10th December 2005, 10:23
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Much as I love my 'K' I think Rover is unwise at the moment.
I actually quite like what Ford are up to and their little 1.6, Sigma I think they call it, looks like a nice little thing. I don't know what cars it comes in though.....
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Old 12th December 2005, 21:03
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Really like what you've done to it, looks great. My favourite is the one with the doors.

Cheers, John

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